Fatty in need of help

steelie600

Hi guys, just getting back into biking for health reasons AND in need of a hobby too. Ive bought a new old stock frame from a friend at a bike shop (Univega Ds950). And im pretty much ok on what components im gonna run to start with.

HOWEVER im struggling with the suspension. Component selection is not the issue here its spring weights. Im not what we call slim (20st) and im buggered if I can fathom out the spring calculator!!.

The bike will be mainly for XC with a few trails thrown in when i get brave enough and maybe a bit of downhill. So im looking at 6" of travel ish. SO can anyone help with an idea for spring weights? Or is it more complex than that?? Would air suspension be better?? And I already know im gonna need LO feature on what ever I get!

Cheers in advance

Kev

styxd

I'd get rid of the frame and buy a nice hardtail.

Chunkers1980

What he said. That's old. From a quick search it's only 3" travel.

I'd buy a full bike.

steelie600

Styxd, thanks for the quick reply but not exactly a constructive one. I intend to lose the weight and shrink into the bike so LO will be used initially with the road work to get trimmer and then ill want suspension to get jiggy with!! If you catch my drift.

steelie600

Chunkers1980 wrote:

What he said. That's old. From a quick search it's only 3" travel.

I'd buy a full bike.

3" travel in the quick search im guessing youve seen bikepedia then. That relates to the forks, Ill be using something with 150mm travel ish! And the rear shock can be changed/altered/etc to give more travel so again none issue!

styxd

No.

A modern hardtail will be better/more appropriate than a 3 inch travel, undersprung full suspension bike from the 1990's.

styxd

If you want to ignore advice then go ahead. You are clearly a bit stupid!

warpcow

That frame was probably never designed for more than 3" travel forks, maybe 4". It all depends what you mean by 'issue'. Obviously a warranty on the frame is probably out of the question, but someone of your 'stature', with all that added leverage on the front with longer forks, spells disaster to me.

Yes, an air fork would be easier to tune to your weight.

Chunkers1980

Can the frame handle 150mm? I'd have a rethink.

steelie600

styxd wrote:

If you want to ignore advice then go ahead. You are clearly a bit stupid!

Im not ignoring advice, BUT I do not want a hard tail, I want a suspended bike. My budget is limited, and this frame was buttons to buy and back in the day was top notch. So in 12 years sat around in a box doing nothing it wont have lost its integrity.

I come from an engineering background, and as such can make things work. I intend to strip the paint from the frame and double check the welds because of my weight etc and get it powder coated instead of painted.

So im not so stupid after all. You say its only designed for 3" travel suspension, is there any harm in using longer travel forks/shock. What extra stresses will this cause to the frame?? Could this be got around with wedling extra gussets in strategic places (I have a tig welder it will take me a matter of minutes to do).

I could even copy this frame and make another its not beyond my realms.

So how can I go about this project of mine, bearing in mind, it is something for me to aspire towards and ultimately I will be able to say I made that!

oodboo

steelie600 wrote:

So im not so stupid after all. You say its only designed for 3" travel suspension, is there any harm in using longer travel forks/shock. What extra stresses will this cause to the frame??

I'm not sure about the extra stresses to the frame but increasing the travel will raise the BB height and COG. This will make the bike perform in strange ways (especially when things get jiggy) and that's assuming you manage to raise front and back equally thus not effecting the bikes head angle and seat angles.

steelie600

Chunkers1980 wrote:

Can the frame handle 150mm? I'd have a rethink.

Not certain myself, hence im here asking. I could go the standard 100mm, not a problem and I would be happy with that tbh. BUT I want the bike to be future proof and not need new components in a year when I start getting fruity with it.

Now if I was to stay at a safe 100mm of travel what are peoples suggestions with springs?? Would it still be go the easier air route??

Majski

steelie600 wrote:

styxd wrote:

If you want to ignore advice then go ahead. You are clearly a bit stupid!

Im not ignoring advice, BUT I do not want a hard tail, I want a suspended bike. My budget is limited, and this frame was buttons to buy and back in the day was top notch. So in 12 years sat around in a box doing nothing it wont have lost its integrity.

I come from an engineering background, and as such can make things work. I intend to strip the paint from the frame and double check the welds because of my weight etc and get it powder coated instead of painted.

So im not so stupid after all. You say its only designed for 3" travel suspension, is there any harm in using longer travel forks/shock. What extra stresses will this cause to the frame?? Could this be got around with wedling extra gussets in strategic places (I have a tig welder it will take me a matter of minutes to do).

I could even copy this frame and make another its not beyond my realms.

So how can I go about this project of mine, bearing in mind, it is something for me to aspire towards and ultimately I will be able to say I made that!

Being from an engineering background surly it'll be fairly obvious to you why longer forks could be a problem? In short it will slacken the head angle and may apply more leverage than the frame was designed for. If a bike is designed around a certain length fork (normally axle to crown as opposed to travel, though the two generally increase proportionatally) then i'd strongly recommend sticking to the correct length, or else your dental bill will likely outweigh the cost of a new frame!

Oh, and get a hardtail.

steelie600

oodboo wrote:

steelie600 wrote:

So im not so stupid after all. You say its only designed for 3" travel suspension, is there any harm in using longer travel forks/shock. What extra stresses will this cause to the frame??

I'm not sure about the extra stresses to the frame but increasing the travel will raise the BB height and COG. This will make the bike perform in strange ways (especially when things get jiggy) and that's assuming you manage to raise front and back equally thus not effecting the bikes head angle and seat angles.

Thankyou!! just the input i'm after. So basically what your saying is I need to keep the geometry as is, IF im going to increase the travel on the suspension. GOTCHA!!

SO with this in mind I take it you would recommend keeping it close to original if possible??

**Mods I apologise this has turned techical and should be in workshop, sorry!**

warpcow

Changing rear suspension travel is pretty difficult without altering the frame.

'Future-proofing' is not the issue, obviously you've got what you've got, and it's never going to be an up-to-date bike.

styxd

Ok, to put it simply.

The frame is shite, its was shite in 1999 and its still shite now.

Buy something else, you're throwing good money after bad.

supersonic

You need to stick to a 4 inch travel fork (at most).

It is unadvisable to alter the length and stroke of the rear shock too (again, geometry reasons - frames have very narrow tolerance bands for rear shocks).

I take it the frame does not have any shock at the minute?

Twelly

steelie600 wrote:

BUT I want the bike to be future proof

Starting with a 13 year old frame is not a good start.

steelie600

supersonic wrote:

You need to stick to a 4 inch travel fork (at most).

It is unadvisable to alter the length and stroke of the rear shock too (again, geometry reasons - frames have very narrow tolerance bands for rear shocks).

I take it the frame does not have any shock at the minute?

No its shock less atm, Im trying to find what the specs were back in 2001 when it was made, and then I can get an equivalent new one in a few weeks when I get to that point of the build.

Ive found some Marzocchi shiver forks on t'interweb with 100mm of travel so ill keep to original (ish) to start with and when I get better/fitter ill look to a frame upgrade. But for now it'll have to do.

supersonic

It's hard to find details, most probably a 140x25mm shock.

What is your total budget for the project? I wouldn't touch an old Shiver, leak a lot, not easy to get parts for and pretty flexy.

My advice would be to buy a whole new bike unless you are really set on this frame. A few reasons: the frame is old, heavy and has a suspension system that is not used nowadays. By the time you have built it, and added Shivers, you'd have spent more than on what you can get a decent new build for, and have a lot worse performing bike.

Your call, but something to be aware of, I really do think there are better options.

steelie600

supersonic wrote:

It's hard to find details, most probably a 140x25mm shock.

What is your total budget for the project? I wouldn't touch an old Shiver, leak a lot, not easy to get parts for and pretty flexy.

My advice would be to buy a whole new bike unless you are really set on this frame. A few reasons: the frame is old, heavy and has a suspension system that is not used nowadays. By the time you have built it, and added Shivers, you'd have spent more than on what you can get a decent new build for, and have a lot worse performing bike.

Your call, but something to be aware of, I really do think there are better options.

Yeah I think it is a 140x25 Im going to collect the frame in a minute, so hopefully the owners bumpf will be in the box with it.

Thanks for the heads up on the shivers, they are new but its something to be aware of! Have sent Marzocchi an email to see on availability of repair kits as theyre the 2005 model forks and no longer listed. Will wait on their response before I commit.

I've not got a maximum spend on this bike but I need to do it in dribs n drabs, as my financial situation is not the best atm due to being on the sick! Hence need to do it relatively on the cheap. If I had the funds to go out and blow £1000+ on a top speccer I would, but Its just not gonna happen at the minute!!

Plan at the minute is get the frame and get it blasted and re welded where needed and powder coated (Welding and blasting free cos ill do it and powder coating ive set aside £80 to get it done in pearl white with metallic flake)

Then ill start to kit it out, Ive decided on fairly basic 2012 Acera group set, Avid BB7's and some braced DH style bars. Seat etc ill wing it in but ill get summat decent same with headset (prolly get a hope one). Still not decided on wheels or tyres but miles away from that yet but will get something nice n light.

Majski

You'd be so so much better just spending 300-500 on an entry level modern hardtail. I know you say you 'want suspension' on the back, but all that shock is going to do is make climbing harder, it won't really help on anything rough at all.

You'll end up spending more to make it even rideable that you would to just buy a decent entry level bike and it won't be as good / last as long.

lostboysaint

The most insightful part of the any of the posts so far are the signature!

steelie600

Majski wrote:

You'd be so so much better just spending 300-500 on an entry level modern hardtail.

"steelie600 wrote:

I've not got a maximum spend on this bike but I need to do it in dribs n drabs, as my financial situation is not the best atm due to being on the sick! Hence need to do it relatively on the cheap. If I had the funds to go out and blow £1000+ on a top speccer I would, but Its just not gonna happen at the minute!!

[/quote][/quote]

Dont you think if I had £300 I'd consider this option??? You guys really arent getting that i'm on a really tight budget here!! I am listening to the advice, I really am, but most of it is GET A HARDTAIL!! Im not really happy scrimping and saving for ages and just getting a bog basic POS, when I can build my own, semi-decent bike in a similar timescale!

Im after constructive advice towards helping me build the bouncer that I want! There have been some very narrow minded comments on this thread but do far only Supersonic and a couple of others have come forward with some sound advice.

I have conceded that I need to keep geometry the same and suspension travel the same. HOWEVER im still after input as to spring strengths or an idea on how to work it out cos Im confused to death with the spring calculator. Being none MTB minded (yet) Im asking for help.

OR do you guys think that I would be better just getting air ride forks/shock for ease of use??

Majski

steelie600 wrote:

Majski wrote:

You'd be so so much better just spending 300-500 on an entry level modern hardtail.

"steelie600 wrote:

I've not got a maximum spend on this bike but I need to do it in dribs n drabs, as my financial situation is not the best atm due to being on the sick! Hence need to do it relatively on the cheap. If I had the funds to go out and blow £1000+ on a top speccer I would, but Its just not gonna happen at the minute!!

[/quote]

Dont you think if I had £300 I'd consider this option??? You guys really arent getting that i'm on a really tight budget here!! I am listening to the advice, I really am, but most of it is GET A HARDTAIL!! Im not really happy scrimping and saving for ages and just getting a bog basic POS, when I can build my own, semi-decent bike in a similar timescale!

Im after constructive advice towards helping me build the bouncer that I want! There have been some very narrow minded comments on this thread but do far only Supersonic and a couple of others have come forward with some sound advice.

I have conceded that I need to keep geometry the same and suspension travel the same. HOWEVER im still after input as to spring strengths or an idea on how to work it out cos Im confused to death with the spring calculator. Being none MTB minded (yet) Im asking for help.

OR do you guys think that I would be better just getting air ride forks/shock for ease of use??[/quote][/quote][/quote]


You're clearly not listening to the advice. The reason people are saying get a hardtail is that for a tight budget it's the best bet. With respect, what you are trying to build is a 'bog basic POS' and there will be very little if any 'bounce' in it whatsoever.

Get over to a demo day somewhere and try out some entry level hardtails it should definately convince you. You can get good stuff for not much money these days

cooldad

a decent set of forks and a shock will cost more than £300.
I'd have a chat with the guys here
http://www.retrobike.co.uk
likely to find compatible kit in the classifieds and they are helpful.
(I'm a member so excellent chaps)

Twelly

Majski wrote:

You're clearly not listening to the advice. The reason people are saying get a hardtail is that for a tight budget it's the best bet. With respect, what you are trying to build is a 'bog basic POS' and there will be very little if any 'bounce' in it whatsoever.

Get over to a demo day somewhere and try out some entry level hardtails it should definitely convince you. You can get good stuff for not much money these days

What he said ^^^

Do some more research and listen to all of the GOOD advice people are giving you on here. Why ask the question if you don't want to hear the answers?

If you are set on using this frame and want to waste money just because you enjoy building bikes up and making old bits work again then by all means, do it, I get that, I have done it myself, just for the technical buildy bit. But don't kid yourself if you think you are going to be able to make a better bike than what you would have if you spent say... £400 on a new hardtail. I recently done up the girlfriends bike, cost me about £200 to get it looking shiny and working fairly well but at the end of the day, its a shit bike, always was, always will be. I knew that when I started but I just did it for fun.

Want a half decent full sus? Allow AT LEAST £800 for a new bike or about the same if you are going to build one from new/used parts. But if you are building, start with a decent frame or it will all be pretty worthless...