Egalite Sunday Times Rich list.

tim_wand

The Sunday Times rich list published today shows that the combined income of those named stands at £414 Billion an increase of 4.4% over that of last years list.

However average earnings for the rest of us in the UK are down 1.8% in the last year.

So it really does look like we are all in it together during this recession. :?


Vive la revoloution can any one suggest a suitable UK landmark to act as the Bastille, I ll gladly man Madame Guillotine.

In defence it has been Cited that the top 12% or earners in the UK pay 28% of its tax. (Dont believe that for one minute)

rick_chasey

tim wand wrote:

In defence it has been Cited that the top 12% or earners in the UK pay 28% of its tax. (Dont believe that for one minute)

I don't think it's a defence, but there's no reason why it shouldn't be true.

Judging by their earnings, if they were paying PAYE I'd imagine they'd be paying an even high proportion!

A favourite saying in my office is 'money makes money'. Sadly, I've not seen much to say otherwise.

tim_wand

Like you say Rick, "If they were paying PAYE". I dont think many of them will be.

I know its cooperation and not individual taxation but when companies like Amazon can make £7 billion a year and then through being registered in Luxembourg pay no tax, you cant tell me that the likes of Mr Tata and Abrahamovich havent found a loop hole too. (I Know they are foreigners) but even the Duke of Westminster must have a good deal of money in the Cayman isles or Jersey.

The reasons the last Budget abolished the 50% rate of tax on high earners was to try and encourage some kind of moral amnestey were high earners would stomach paying tax rather than employing savey accountants to find a way to avoid it ( await with interest the results of that one)

Frank the tank

1,000 people recieve £414billion in "earnings". Now I,m a reasonable man but that does seem a liitle bit excessive if I may say.

No doubt some of these people are responsible for a lot of other, ordinary people, earning a wedge but when "they" talk about average earnings I can't help but think that first stat seriously skews the figures in an obscene manner.

As for "madam Guillotine" Tim If you really want 'em put to death, burn 'em alive preferably in the winter. It'll save on the heating bills.

TheStone

tim wand wrote:

In defence it has been Cited that the top 12% or earners in the UK pay 28% of its tax. (Dont believe that for one minute)

I always wonder if that's true, or just theoretically what should happen? Didn't really agree with the 50p tax, but I do think they should try and close as many tax loopholes as possible. Simplifying the whole thing would help. Also don't see why PAYE + NI + ENI is so high, yet taxation on nonproductive speculation is so low.

But the tax thing is a side show. The real elephant in the room was quantitative easing (money printing). One of it's stated purposes was to support asset prices. Rich people have a lot of assets.

In many years time when people study this period, they'll be amazed what the western central banks and governments did whilst the people ignorantly watched on.

pinno

Tim is going to be our cheeky chippy chopper !

Here is something I received about a stimulus payment (vaguely connected, but this is cakestop RonB):

Sometime this year, we taxpayers will again receive another 'Economic Stimulus' payment.
This is indeed a very exciting program, and I'll explain it by using a Q & A format:

Q. What is an 'Economic Stimulus' payment ?
A. It is money that the government will send to taxpayers.
Q.. Where will the government get this money ?
A. From taxpayers.
Q. So the government is giving me back my own money ?
A. Only a smidgen of it.
Q. What is the purpose of this payment ?
A. The plan is for you to use the money to purchase a high-definition TV set, thus stimulating the economy.
Q. But isn't that stimulating the economy of China ?
A. Shut up.
Below is some helpful advice on how to best help the U.K. economy by spending your stimulus cheque wisely:
* If you spend the stimulus money at Asda or Tesco, the money will go to China , Taiwan or Sri Lanka .
* If you spend it on petrol, your money will go to the Arabs.
* If you purchase a computer, it will go to India , Taiwan or China .
* If you purchase fruit and vegetables, it will go to Mexico , Honduras and Guatemala ..
* If you buy an efficient car, it will go to Japan or Korea .
* If you purchase useless stuff, it will go to Taiwan .
* If you pay your credit cards off, or buy shares, it will go to management bonuses and they will hide it offshore.
Instead, keep the money in the UK by:
1) Spending it at car boot sales, or
2) Going to night clubs, or
3) Spending it on prostitutes, or
4) Beer or whisky or
5) Tattoos.(These are the only UK businesses still operating in the U.K.. )
Conclusion:

Be patriotic - go to a night club with a tattooed prostitute that you met at a car boot sale and drink beer day and night !

No need to thank me, I'm just glad I could be of help.

flasher

tim wand wrote:

The Sunday Times rich list published today shows that the combined income of those named stands at £414 Billion an increase of 4.4% over that of last years list.

However average earnings for the rest of us in the UK are down 1.8% in the last year.

So it really does look like we are all in it together during this recession. :?


Vive la revoloution can any one suggest a suitable UK landmark to act as the Bastille, I ll gladly man Madame Guillotine.

In defence it has been Cited that the top 12% or earners in the UK pay 28% of its tax. (Dont believe that for one minute)

You just can't compare worth with income, my income maybe slightly down but my worth may have increased!

Ben6899

I say fair play to 'em; I wish I was on the list.

tim_wand

Frank, You gotta be right. The figures I was quoting on are based on a national average earnings of £26,900 per annum.

Now I ve been employed for 26 years (unemployed for 2 weeks/ back working) and only for a couple of years have i come close to earning that.

Theres a great new book out called the New Few by David Kynaston which suggests we are living at a time which has more Oligarchs then any other in history , why the vast majority decline in a recession.

It just sticks in my throat to observe this Economic and social elite claim that we are all in it together, whilst they lend one another ponies, charge £250,000 for the privelage of bending their ear over nibbles and f*ck up our schools and health service by selling them off to there overseas friends, whilst there all on Bupa and going to Eton and Harrow.

Thats it off to get me block and blade out.

MattC59

shock horror, some cake stoppers whining that some people have a lot more money than others.
I suspect that they wouldn't be whining if they were on the list.

tim_wand

I d just settle for being rich enough to have a Colnago C59.

MattC59

tim wand wrote:

I d just settle for being rich enough to have a Colnago C59.

Me too !!
(I've noticed a few people have assumed I have a C59, it's actually the initial of my surname and the number of the first house I owned, a coincidence I only noticed today )

verylonglegs

What has really amused and left me dismayed at the same time is this story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17878806 the church lecturing others on unjustified taxes and levies. Cleary someone who skipped the history section regarding his own institution. If he wants to help the poor so much maybe they should sell some of their assets and stfu.

Cleat Eastwood

MattC59 wrote:

tim wand wrote:

I d just settle for being rich enough to have a Colnago C59.

Me too !!
(I've noticed a few people have assumed I have a C59, it's actually the initial of my surname and the number of the first house I owned, a coincidence I only noticed today )

Yeah his names Matt Colossally-Wealthy and he lived in No.59 Buckingham Palace, hehe

EKIMIKE

Don't mind if someone is stinking rich. So long as they pay their taxes in full then fine by me. Unfortunately many don't.

Same for many of these peoples companies. Big companies are not inherently evil, as is popularly touted in the current climate. So long as they pay their full rates, their staff a fair wage and conduct their practices in a legally and ethically sound manner then fine by me. Unfortunately many don't.

There's a recurring theme. Why? Well that's where it gets interesting...

rick_chasey

verylonglegs wrote:

What has really amused and left me dismayed at the same time is this story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17878806 the church lecturing others on unjustified taxes and levies. Cleary someone who skipped the history section regarding his own institution. If he wants to help the poor so much maybe they should sell some of their assets and stfu.

The church wouldn't exist without their churches?!?!

RonB

...and that investment portfolio of £5.3bn.

CiB

Oh how the bitter & twisted rise when they see the numbers. Thanks for the good larf chaps.

Sad fact is that if Cameron & his posh chums all resigned tomorrow and Dave Spart found himself in charge and as a first decisive act redistributed all the wealth equally amongst the population so we all have an equal share, by the time Wimbledon fortnight is over pretty much all of it would be back where it is now.

Stevo_666

There's nout like a bit of politics of envy on a Sunday night Cake Stop seems to have taken over from Commuting Chat as the home of leftybollox threads these days

tim_wand

Matt C59 a thousand apologies, I ve always admired you for your apt and extensive access to appropriate images to accompany any thread. and now it seems your assumed custodianship of one of Bergamos finest was wrong.

Still I know the anticiapation of the opening of Bottom Bracket as calmed us all down for now, but dont let me down on the images.

As for Lefty issues turning Cake stop into commuting chat, I ve got helmet cam footage that proves otherwise.

MaxwellBygraves

Just highlights that ordinary people are still paying for a crisis that they did not create whilst the rich are unaffected. It's socialism, but not as we know it

2Phat4Rapha

Yeah, come on in. We need folks like you to get us out of this sh|t. Mind you, don’t get too successful you mf_ing right_wing capitalist scumbags. You dare make a profit and we’ll take half t** f*** of it off you and some ‘cause we got lefties to pay. See we got this sucker called welfare and boy does it suck. It sucks big time. It sucks the lifeblood outa here ‘cause it started good but nobody noticed it grow. No one got to asking ‘cause it was a good thing. An it still is a good thing but Jeezuz H. C look look at the size of this mother!

Now everyone’s got an excuse for wanting everything cuz some other daft fker’s gonna pay. Hey! Can’t question that, it’s welfare man. Let it grow, let it grow. Mr Bean’s Spend_Spend_Spend party’ll be back in soon. Makes sense to vote for them then really don’t it. I mean who t** f*** needs to bother about the bill. Take it man. Take it all. take whatever’s on offer ‘caus let’s face it, it aint welfare any more its ... its... fkg ENTITLEMENT!

Who’s paying? Who tf cares. Them spend-spend-spend people look like they know what they’re doing. Wuhey. Keep spending!

ps. BTW, nothing against leftie cylclists who need hip ops (haha hiphop - geddit?). Hope it goes well man. Mean it. NHS was there for me once and they were fkg great.

tim_wand

2phat4rapha. Like that. Genuinely sums up my own concerns and Juxtapositon with my arguement that the Fat cats grow fatter why the rest of us " pay for a situation they created"

Ah but did they? It makes no sense and cant be sustained that we live in a society that pays out more in Welfare than it collects in Paye or NI.

Obviously that isnt right and leads to massive public lending. But I cant help but think that those who do earn massive (Sunday Times Rich List 1000 esque incomes) have in some way found a way to evade making a contribution.

I agree we should live in a meritocraucy that rewards success. but I feel more and more that the possibilitie of access to anyone who does not have connections to the current cronie set that exsist within this strata is zero.

"All that rugby put hairs on your chest , what chance had we got against a tie and a crest?"

verylonglegs

Rick Chasey wrote:

verylonglegs wrote:

What has really amused and left me dismayed at the same time is this story http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-17878806 the church lecturing others on unjustified taxes and levies. Cleary someone who skipped the history section regarding his own institution. If he wants to help the poor so much maybe they should sell some of their assets and stfu.

The church wouldn't exist without their churches?!?!

Correct.

finchy

Now, I'm not an economist, so if somebody with a bit more knowledge could please explain to me...

If inequality is growing on a worldwide scale, as the trend does seem to suggest, and the % of the world's wealth concentrated in the hands of the capitalists gets ever higher, then how long can this go on? Surely there will come a point at which the rest of us have so little wealth compared to them that it is no longer worth their while to invest in production.

TheStone

johnfinch wrote:

Now, I'm not an economist, so if somebody with a bit more knowledge could please explain to me...

If inequality is growing on a worldwide scale, as the trend does seem to suggest, and the % of the world's wealth concentrated in the hands of the capitalists gets ever higher, then how long can this go on? Surely there will come a point at which the rest of us have so little wealth compared to them that it is no longer worth their while to invest in production.

Usually a recession. Many get wiped out, different people get a chance to rebuild. The next generation get a foot in the door.
.... but through bailouts and quantitative easing, no-one is being allowed to fail, which will extend the situation.

rick_chasey

johnfinch wrote:

Now, I'm not an economist, so if somebody with a bit more knowledge could please explain to me...

If inequality is growing on a worldwide scale, as the trend does seem to suggest, and the % of the world's wealth concentrated in the hands of the capitalists gets ever higher, then how long can this go on? Surely there will come a point at which the rest of us have so little wealth compared to them that it is no longer worth their while to invest in production.

You marxist you.

finchy

TheStone wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Now, I'm not an economist, so if somebody with a bit more knowledge could please explain to me...

If inequality is growing on a worldwide scale, as the trend does seem to suggest, and the % of the world's wealth concentrated in the hands of the capitalists gets ever higher, then how long can this go on? Surely there will come a point at which the rest of us have so little wealth compared to them that it is no longer worth their while to invest in production.

Usually a recession. Many get wiped out, different people get a chance to rebuild. The next generation get a foot in the door.
.... but through bailouts and quantitative easing, no-one is being allowed to fail, which will extend the situation.

But recessions don't actually stop the overall trend of wealth being concentrated in the hands of the few, do they?

tim_wand

johnfinch wrote:

TheStone wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

Now, I'm not an economist, so if somebody with a bit more knowledge could please explain to me...

If inequality is growing on a worldwide scale, as the trend does seem to suggest, and the % of the world's wealth concentrated in the hands of the capitalists gets ever higher, then how long can this go on? Surely there will come a point at which the rest of us have so little wealth compared to them that it is no longer worth their while to invest in production.

Usually a recession. Many get wiped out, different people get a chance to rebuild. The next generation get a foot in the door.
.... but through bailouts and quantitative easing, no-one is being allowed to fail, which will extend the situation.

But recessions don't actually stop the overall trend of wealth being concentrated in the hands of the few, do they?

Possibly, different hands. The owners of Poundshop and The Range are now on the Rich List. They didnt get a look in last year. Oh and theres a few Euro millions Lotto winners, which is about as much chance as the rest of us have of breaking onto the list.

Sorry shouldnt be so negative I m sure the likes of Lord Sugar would tell me its still possbile for a hard working creative entrepreneur to make it. From his seat in the Lords.

Actually I really admire any one who is self made, I just think in this age of Cronism its just harder to do it.

Frank the tank

MattC59 wrote:

tim wand wrote:

I d just settle for being rich enough to have a Colnago C59.

Me too !!
(I've noticed a few people have assumed I have a C59, it's actually the initial of my surname and the number of the first house I owned, a coincidence I only noticed today )

In some ways you've hit the nail on the head chaps.

I would guess most people don't want such an obscene amount of wealth just a decent standard of living. Yes I understand more wants more and that we all live up to our incomes, but I still maintain most don't want such wealth.

TheStone

Somewhat counter intuitive, but is it possible that the growth of the state has led to the growth in the gap between the rich and poor?

The middle earners can no longer aspire to be the super rich through working as the tax is now so large.

The super wealthy seem to choose to pay whatever tax they wish. When the state is half the economy, a large number will benefit directly as the state consumes their (often overpriced) product. And otherwise they're nearly always indirectly subsidised as their lower paid workers will receive tax credits and housing benefit. This has to result in lower wages and higher rent than a more open market would otherwise achieve.

The state is also intent on bailing out every 'capitalist' mistake, which means there's no risk to the risk-reward. Whoever has the easiest access to capital and speculates the most, will end up the richest.