The taboo thread
Comments
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DonDaddyD wrote:
But that's what is so insulting and patronising about Cameron. We already know and accept that the Tories fail to relate. It's like he thinks we're dumb enough to believe hsi act.notsoblue wrote:Isn't a failure to relate part of the whole conservative shtick though? If I had voted tory, I wouldn't expect a prime minister that listens to the "common man's" issues.
Personal responsibility, trickle down economics, let the market judge... etc etc etc...
It's why peopl like Boris, he doesn't deny his public school boy background and feign a 'down with the homies' understanding. He isn't trying to be anybody else but himself* and thus his oaf-like pomposity is actually charming.
In fact Boris keeps it realz... :shock:
Let us imagine for a moment that Boris was PM.
He'd get sh!t AAALL the time.
As a PM you need to be able to, on some level, persuade the electorate that you understand what's going on. A certain background helps, but it's not essential. It's about capturing the mood, saying the right things, making people feel like you 'get it'. I think Cameron understands that in a way Boris doesn't. He even comes out and says ' we get it', word for word.
Imagine if Borris did what he did under the back-drop of all the cuts? He'd be utterly crucified. He'd be done for not taking it seriously enough, being cavalier about things that massively affect people's lives, etc etc.
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Right. Six pages is enough.
It's about time everyone acknowledged that it doesn't matter what you think of DC and GO.
It really doesn't.
Why?
Because the alternative is the adenoidal band wagon passenger from the lower sixth, and an ever so slightly over-inflated mad staring cyborg programmed to destroy. Neither of whom understand bobbins about the "common man", and both of whom were part of Gordon Brown's inner circle of spendy spendthrifts. Societal aspects: fail. Business side: fail. Ability to learn soundbite words and weave repeatedly but very clumsily into TV interviews: congratulatory first class.
It's often said that a government is as good as its opposition. Frankly Labour should have the Coalition begging to be let back up onto their knees right now. But no. Not even close.
Clegg's probably closest to understanding the common man, but he's busy leading his party into electoral oblivion for the next 20 years.0 -
Cameron never alludes to his educational background, personal wealth and comes up with phrases like "Big Society", "Hug a hoody" and "We are all in this together". It is as though he is trying too hard to come across as acceptable 'as all things to all people'. In fact whenever I think of Cameron all my minds eye sees is a series of badly structured publicity shots of him eating things (hotdogs, pasties, sausages, ice creams - you ordinary food just like you and me but we all know rich people don't eat food in the same way as 'us'... ) to make him look like an ordinary man.notsoblue wrote:
But does Cameron actually do this? I honestly don't get the feeling he does. Can you give me an example of him feigning empathy in this way?DonDaddyD wrote:It's why peopl like Boris, he doesn't deny his public school boy background and feign a 'down with the homies' understanding. He isn't trying to be anybody else but himself* and thus his oaf-like pomposity is actually charming.
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There is something undeniably fake about Cameron and in truth it's not hsi inability to relate to the electorate it's the electorates inability to relate to him.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:It is as though he is trying too hard to come across as acceptable 'as all things to all people'.
That's Thatcher's Curse. The unwillingness of the Tories even now to be seen as divisive, because of the allusions to Thatcher it evokes. Major did it far better than DC, IMO.0 -
Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:It is as though he is trying too hard to come across as acceptable 'as all things to all people'.
That's Thatcher's Curse. The unwillingness of the Tories even now to be seen as divisive, because of the allusions to Thatcher it evokes. Major did it far better than DC, IMO.
Don't hold Cameron in high regards?
Major was seen as pretty weak by consensus wasn't he?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Greg66 wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:It is as though he is trying too hard to come across as acceptable 'as all things to all people'.
That's Thatcher's Curse. The unwillingness of the Tories even now to be seen as divisive, because of the allusions to Thatcher it evokes. Major did it far better than DC, IMO.
Don't hold Cameron in high regards?
Major was seen as pretty weak by consensus wasn't he?
Solid B+. I think we'd have seen a better govt had they won outright. He now has too many people to please.
Major: you had to be there, I suppose. He followed the strongest leader the country had had since the war, and was not the obvious choice. His party was split wide open on Europe and just could not stop itself fighting in public over it. "Sleaze" was synonymous with "Conservative".
And yet he managed to win an election that Labour should have romped home with simply through the force of his (perceived to be grey) personality, getting out, standing on a box and speaking to small groups of people. It was an impressive feat, and one unlikely to be repeated in today's media-intensive world. His Govt also managed post Black Wednesday to stabilise the economy and handed it over in 1997 in pretty good shape. I think he did OK.0 -
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I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.0 -
John Major lived in Brixton. You can't be more down with the homies than that. He also went to work in Nigeria for a bank (Gangsta - he probably invented half the scams filling my junk email box right now) , in the mother land, he kept it real.
But in all seriousness Major is so underrated it's not funny (and I was raised to hate Major and the Tories). Simply put, Greg's right! Major followed the strongest Prime Minister of my lifetime thus far, he inherited a broken and hated party that was riddled throughout his terms with infighting and sleaze and the guy turned the entire country around. Labour once they got in didn't have to do anything but spend and smile. And in fact Major's moves, treaties and well fought exemptions in the EU have served and proven to protect the Country. He could honestly do with getting more credit.
Watch his sweetly spoken Commons speeches against the opposition and the way he fires off retorts and answers questions, even against the mighty Dark Lord Blair. When you compare those performances to that of Cameron and Miliband you quickly realise that Major was simply a class above these petulant contempt filled school boys.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Man, this is a nutters thread if people are extolling how amazing Major was.
I'll leave you two to it.0 -
LamontRick Chasey wrote:Wasn't John Major Chancellor of the Exchequer during black Wednesday?0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:Wasn't John Major Chancellor of the Exchequer during black Wednesday?
Nope. Lamont. We were on a plane heading off on holiday. It was odd to have the pilot relay the successive interest rate movements.Rick Chasey wrote:Man, this is a nutters thread if people are extolling how amazing Major was.
Oh dear. You've really not done yourself any favours with that one.0 -
JonGinge wrote:
LamontRick Chasey wrote:Wasn't John Major Chancellor of the Exchequer during black Wednesday?
Ah, so Major was PM?
Of all the self-inflicted avoidable economic disasters, that one ranks pretty high.0 -
ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.0 -
All I'm saying is that I think, upon reflection, it's a little unfair to simply dismiss John Major and his political skill.
He never became the story.
Given the state of the party back then and the fact that the Tories are still fearful of going back to those days. That John Major got through it all and emerged relatively clean - despite having his own scandal - and unhated (in the grand scheme of things - people hate Thatcher more and the Tory party in general) the guy must have had some political skill.
He also inherited the Country in a bad state and left it in good shape.
Blair/Brown in comparision inherited a soon to be booming economy (so better shape than Major inherited) and left it shattered. So I'm not getting the Major hate now we have hindsight and are able to compare it to a Prime Minster before and after his time as PM.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.
I am not sure if thats a compliment or a bit slap?!0 -
A compliment for sure.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
ga02clr wrote:Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.
I am not sure if thats a compliment or a bit slap?!
Compliment, obv.0 -
Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.
I am not sure if thats a compliment or a bit slap?!
In that case thank you!
Compliment, obv.0 -
Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments and the voters are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.
I am not sure if thats a compliment or a bit slap?!
Compliment, obv.
Indeed, nice piece with a little amendement too
Le Cannon [98 Cannondale M400] [FCN: 8]
The Mad Monkey [2013 Hoy 003] [FCN: 4]0 -
Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.
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Why would he? This shouldn't really have any bearing on the policies he pushes. I don't want our leaders to be against taxing the rich because they're have rich friends, in the same way that I don't want our leaders to for uncapped benefits because they have poor friends. I want decisions like that to be objective and rational and in the interest of the nation.DonDaddyD wrote:Cameron never alludes to his educational background,[and] personal wealth
In the same way that you don't have to be gay to be for gay rights, you don't have to be on an average income to empathise with people who are.DonDaddyD wrote:In fact whenever I think of Cameron all my minds eye sees is a series of badly structured publicity shots of him eating things (hotdogs, pasties, sausages, ice creams - you ordinary food just like you and me but we all know rich people don't eat food in the same way as 'us'... ) to make him look like an ordinary man.
You're totally right, its all a sham. I bet his PR team has to physically restrain him from wearing a tophat and monocle when he goes out. :P0 -
ga02clr wrote:Greg66 wrote:ga02clr wrote:I don’t want to 'like' the Government or for them to please me. I want them to make the right choice for the long term and not worry about the opinion poll next week.
It’s like teachers. Which ones were best. The ones that worked you hard and you got good grades in the exams and did well in the long run because of or the ones that let you doss around and gave you an easy time? If you asked most kids at the time they would say the later. In the long run anyone with half a brain would say the former.
The problem with modern sound bite politics is everyone is worried about tomorrows headlines and polls.
Some decisions won’t be popular at the time but in the long run they may be what’s needed that is why we have 5 year mandates and not every year or 6 months. I think Governments are forgetting this.
This post has so much win.
I am not sure if thats a compliment or a bit slap?!
The former, I think. And I'd like to give it a +1 from me.1985 Mercian King of Mercia - work in progress (Hah! Who am I kidding?)
Pinnacle Monzonite
Part of the anti-growth coalition0 -
He should be sticking the knife in a lot more. There have been lots of mistakes and cockups, so many in fact that a lot have drifted out of the public consciousness. I can't remember a government that looked so tired and with so many non-entities in the cabinet so early in its first term.DonDaddyD wrote:Right, ever since 'the Cycling-Viking' Clever Pub spoke (well typed) politics has been outlawed in this section.
And while I'm not one to challenge the status quo and all that :roll: but it has to be said, it is kicking off in the political arena right now. I imagine 'egg and bacon' is likely foaming at the mouth while watching all this on the now digitally received TV channels while the Tory faithful are on the ropes and wondering where the second wind will come or whether Cameron has a 'rope-a-dope' in him. I don't think he has and his tag team partner Nick Clegg is still missing since Ed 'Finished Him" during his coming of age Budget 2012 speech.
If Miliband had someone to truly challenge and school Osborne (I really do not like his face) then I could see an early bath for Cameron's Britian.
Miliband smells blood and he might just get it.
Like his image and voice (you freaks) or not, he does seem to be growing from strength to strength. Needs to keep his nose and his Shadow Cabinet/Party's nose clean or at least wiped clean...
On top of the obvious mistakes, there are the policies that they do want to push through but which are unpopular... Or would be when people think about them. The NHS reform bill was longer than the original bill that set up the NHS. Full marks for convincing people that it was too expensive, but in reality the NHS was one of the most cost effective systems within the OECD.
The attempted sell of of forests probably has been forgotten, but indicated the tenor of this government. In one example they were proposing selling off some forest for £60k, when the new owner would have been able to claim £55k per year in subsidies. The U-turn was embarrassing at the time, but has been forgotten due to subsequent events.
I missed the fuel crisis, but it showed the government failing in its primary job, which is to deal with public emergencies, not create them.Murdoch, Cameron and Hunt
Cameron is in a tricky position. He has people in places making unpopular decisions who haven't followed procedure or acted properly. As Cameron has acted so steadfast in his belief for change he has placed himself in a position where removing said people (Jeremy Hunt, Andrew Lansley - though for different reason) would mean defeat for him and a win for Labour. The alternative is the blunderbus ahead supporting these people which is making him even more unpopular and alienating him with those in the arenas that they operate.
You can keep people as a lightning rod to attract the criticism, but if you then have to let them go, it really reflects badly on your judgement - at the time Andy Coulson's resignation was more damaging than if it had happened earlier.
I'd say that a plot of the most shocking facts from the Leveson Inquiry have not received the publicity they deserve.Have to be honest, Murdoch is out of order and his arrogance is outstanding. Clearly the Sun is after the Tories, clearly there is no love lost between he and Gordon Brown. I'm getting a little sick of this enquiry, it's not clear and I'm not sure what they are trying to uncover. It's obvious previous Governments was too close to powerful media individuals but what is interesting and ironic is the only person likely to come out of this clean is Ed Miliband and that is down to his initial unpopularity and lack of media/public image.
I am not referring to the incidental hindering of murder investigations as a consequence of chasing a story, but the deliberate compromising of murder investigations because the suspect had links to News International and the Met.
News international used an investigator who had been convicted of planting drugs on a woman to help his client in an "acrimonious" divorce and child custody case. This man was a prime suspect in an axe murder of his colleague, for which there had been 5 failed investigations that failed under the weight of police corruptionMy link above wrote:This is why I think that the Metropolitan police cannot be used in any further investigations: yesterday, the Leveson inquiry heard a startling revelation that Alex Marunchak—a close business associate of Jonathan Rees, then the prime suspect in a murder case—chose to put DCI David Cook and his family under close covert surveillance. The person who was investigating a murder was put under close surveillance by a close business associate of the man he was investigating. That was raised with Rebekah Brooks in 2002, the then editor of the News of the World. I would like the Minister to imagine what his response would have been to that information. A journalist employee tried to undermine the murder investigation of his close associate. Rupert Murdoch claims that News International takes a zero-tolerance approach to wrongdoing. However, far from launching a wide-scale inquiry to investigate wrongdoing, Rebekah Brooks promoted Alex Marunchak to the editor’s job at the News of the World in Ireland.
News International paid for surveillance of the police officers investigating this murder and gave an unbelievable reason for this actionWhen Mr Cook met the News of the World's then editor Rebekah Brooks she suggested the surveillance was carried out because the tabloid suspected that they were having an affair with each other.
But Ms Hames told the inquiry that this was "absolutely pathetic" because she and Mr Cook were well known as a couple within the force and had appeared in Hello magazine together.
News Corp has even has links to the Steven Lawrence Inquiry.
(As well as the ONDigital collapse, there is strong evidence linking NDS in the person of Adams to similar practices in Australia, and is implicatedin what looks like an attempt to subvert the due process of law in America in attempt to silence a whistleblower).Scotland Yard says it is considering keeping secret a report detailing questions about the conduct and integrity of a police chief who went on to be hired by part of Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation.
Former Scotland Yard commander Ray Adams was head of UK security for the software company NDS, owned by News Corp, which allegedly cracked the smartcard codes of rival company ONdigital. The codes then appeared on a pirate website. NDS denies any wrongdoing.
As well as the allegations about NDS, Adams's career is at the centre of demands for a new inquiry into whether the killers of Stephen Lawrence were shielded by police corruption in 1993.
I'll stop now...0
