What Do You Consider to be Secure Bike Parking?

spen666

What do you understand or mean by the term secure bike parking?

I ask this question because I was invited by the Football Association (FA) to a focus group at Wembley stadium. I asked them to confirm there was secure bike parking facilities and was told there was, so I headed over there, in the opposite direction from my work to my home.

When I got there, the only bike parking they had was a few sheffield steel stands in a dingy corner of the stadium concourse, open to the public, not covered by CCTV etc.

I had my rant about it here in my blog, including several pictures of the parking provision.

Sweet FA

I have since wondered if I was unreasonable to expect secure parking to be more than somewhere to lock a bike up.

What would you expect if you were told there was secure parking for your bike?

EKE_38BPM

spen666 wrote:

What would you expect if you were told there was secure parking for your bike?

Restricted access is the main thing, but not tucked away in a little used corner.
A security guard is also good. For somewhere open 24 hours a day this may be too expensive, but for a sports stadium it would only mean employing someone for a few hours, so it could be feasible.
Good CCTV is a must, as is secure stands to lock to. Just having a stand which props the bike up but is easily cut through is pretty pointless.
It needs to be well lit too. Dirty scrotes like to work in the shadows.

For public secure parking, how do you restrict access, but still have it accessible to members of the public who wish to use it?

I would look at the bike parking at Finsbury Park station both to copy the good points and to improve on any bad points. I should say that I've never used it, but it seems popular. No idea on cost or if many bikes have been nicked from there.

spen666

That Finsbury Park set up looks good and is more what I would expect a secure bike parking facility to be

rjsterry

Sounds like an example of the importance of asking the right person the right question. To a non cyclist, secure bike parking might be just what you described. Maybe a useful comparison would be what is generally understood by the term 'secure parking' in relation to cars. That would normally involve ticket/payment controlled access via a barrier of some sort, on top of CCTV.

spen666

rjsterry wrote:

Sounds like an example of the importance of asking the right person the right question. To a non cyclist, secure bike parking might be just what you described. Maybe a useful comparison would be what is generally understood by the term 'secure parking' in relation to cars. That would normally involve ticket/payment controlled access via a barrier of some sort, on top of CCTV.

Good points - i did specify in my request it needed to be secure.

in fact it was nothing more than sheffield steel stands in a dingy corner of the concourse.

To be honest, I did not expect there to be secure parking. If they had said there wasn't, then I'd have got the tube from work and collected my bike from the office on my way home.


I find it quite ironic that the event I was going to was a focus group organised by the FA to see how they can engage with fans- and before it starts, they have mis informed this fan

simple_salmon

I haven't posted on Bike Radar for a very long time but as this is an area I've been involved with I thought I'd make a quick response.

I got into a little trouble at work for promoting one of our cycle sheds as 'secure' after some items were stolen. Despite that fact that it's clearly a shed to which a number of people have access I was criticised for claiming that it is 'secure' as a theft proved that it wasn't.

I now only ever advertise the sheds/stands as either 'lockable' or 'open'. Even the single use cycle lockers are not called 'secure' since, in theory, they could be broken into.

So I guess my opinion is: no cycle shed can be truly called 'secure' - especially if it's my head on the block.

rjsterry

spen666 wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

Sounds like an example of the importance of asking the right person the right question. To a non cyclist, secure bike parking might be just what you described. Maybe a useful comparison would be what is generally understood by the term 'secure parking' in relation to cars. That would normally involve ticket/payment controlled access via a barrier of some sort, on top of CCTV.

Good points - i did specify in my request it needed to be secure.

in fact it was nothing more than sheffield steel stands in a dingy corner of the concourse.

To be honest, I did not expect there to be secure parking. If they had said there wasn't, then I'd have got the tube from work and collected my bike from the office on my way home.


I find it quite ironic that the event I was going to was a focus group organised by the FA to see how they can engage with fans- and before it starts, they have mis informed this fan

I had this when I visited the Ecobuild expo at Excel recently. A bit of puff on the website saying that they had lots of secure bike parking - when I got there, the few sheffield stands were full and I ended up (like many others) locking it to the railings outside the front entrance.

BTW, in motorcycle terms, the MAG seems to think 'secure parking' just means that there are some ground anchors to lock the bike to.

@simple salmon: that thought occurred to me. Even though the average NCP is fairly secure in that you need to have a ticket to get out, they are still advertised as 'at the owner's risk'. 'Secure' is an ambiguous term.

simple_salmon

Spen - you're the legal expert: what would 'secure' mean to you in court?

EKE_38BPM

If a locked bike was stolen from a secure bike park, would the bike park be liable and could you claim from their insurance?

simple_salmon

EKE_38BPM wrote:

If a locked bike was stolen from a secure bike park, would the bike park be liable and could you claim from their insurance?

That was exactly my concern and the reason we now use 'lockable' rather than 'secure'. I'd be interested to know if we're being over cautious.

simple_salmon

Why didn't that quote properly?

rick_chasey

simple_salmon wrote:

Why didn't that quote properly?

You disabled "BBCode"

Edited for you.

CiB

Secure implies something over & above the norm, which most reasonable people would sees as nothing more than somewhere that a bike can be locked to. Claiming 'secure' suggests that something more than a locking point has been provided. Surely.

Please find attached my invoice for £250 in respect of legal advice sought and proffered.

simple_salmon

Rick Chasey wrote:

simple_salmon wrote:

Why didn't that quote properly?

You disabled "BBCode"

Edited for you.

Thanks

kieranb

Well, secure to me would mean I could bring my good bike to work without worrying (that there is only a very small risk) that it will be stolen that day. So something secure to lock the bike to, good CCTV cover, well lit, and with restricted access (either to the general location or availabilityof a single use bike locker). I would also like it to offer protection against the weather. I have never experienced this set up, for the last few years I leave my bike locked at a public bike stand.

spen666

simple_salmon wrote:

Spen - you're the legal expert: what would 'secure' mean to you in court?

i'm not sure I have had to argue the meaning of secure in a criminal case.

I would expect something more than a sheffield steel stand.

A stand would in my view be "Bike Parking Available"

Secure bike parking would require more than that - I think I would tend towards what EKE said in the first response to my opening post.


I think it needs more than just a space to leave a bike

CiB - you'll never make a lawyer - you have written in plain English and your fee is far too low

clarkey cat

Securitised Bike Parking would be where all your bikes are parked together, even the BSOs, but you can only see the nice road bikes from the outside.

Agent57

To me, secure means at least that Joe Public doesn't have access to my bike.

Enclosed bike lockers like these or these; or a secure building or cage that requires a key (or preferably a smartcard) to access, like this or this.

CCTV probably doesn't make much difference to my mind, as most street stands are covered by CCTV and I don't consider them secure. A doorman or security guard would be a good addition.

I definitely don't consider Sheffield stands to be secure parking.

Initialised

Secure means your bike is stored in the building where you work with no access by the general public.