It's a double dip!

MaxwellBygraves

It would be fun to laugh at this shambolic government if it wasn't ordinary people's livelihoods at stake here.

I guess it was worth cutting SureStart centres, cutting disabled benefit, cutting housing benefit, fuel panic, pasty-gate, Granny tax, Cash for Cameron, worsening unemployment, catasrophic and lasting damage to the NHS, a Millionaires budget, cutting council budgets, cuts to legal aid, Murdoch sleaze, Banker's bonuses, the list goes on and on 'cos hey at least the economy is alive and kicking :x

For all politicians but especially Dave and co. it's just one big game.

Cheers chaps.

markos1963

I sometimes feel that Tory governments like to have recessions and the subsequent unemployment increases. They seem to use it as a way of controlling the labour market.

nathancom

Scumbags, especially the Hulture Secretary.

CambsNewbie

markos1963 wrote:

I sometimes feel that Tory governments like to have recessions and the subsequent unemployment increases. They seem to use it as a way of controlling the labour market.

What???? Are you seriously saying you think the government wants a recession? How exactly is it controlling the labour market?

If the country hadn't been left on the verge of bankruptcy by Gordon and Ed Balls then maybe they Wouldn't have to cut so deeply.

MaxwellBygraves

CambsNewbie wrote:

If the country hadn't been left on the verge of bankruptcy by Gordon and Ed Balls

markos1963

CambsNewbie wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

I sometimes feel that Tory governments like to have recessions and the subsequent unemployment increases. They seem to use it as a way of controlling the labour market.

What???? Are you seriously saying you think the government wants a recession? How exactly is it controlling the labour market?

If the country hadn't been left on the verge of bankruptcy by Gordon and Ed Balls then maybe they Wouldn't have to cut so deeply.

I have been through three Tory recessions in my life(80's, 90's & this one) each time they introduce new laws to 'encourage' employers to take on workers when in reality they are laws that encourage and make it easier to sack workers. I don't think they want recessions but they certainly seem to like them and use them to further their dogmas.

random man

markos1963 wrote:

I sometimes feel that Tory governments like to have recessions and the subsequent unemployment increases. They seem to use it as a way of controlling the labour market.

My English teacher at school told us exactly that, and I believed him cos he was a clever man.

ddraver

MaxwellBygraves wrote:

CambsNewbie wrote:

If the country hadn't been left on the verge of bankruptcy by Gordon and Ed Balls

Eh?

Anyway, I'm not to bothered, the Dutch seem to be intent on creating their own mess now. Although, it seems that this is far from uncommon over here...

Still, at least this time the racist tw@face might not be involved, so small mercies and all that...

Gizmodo

I hate politics as much as comuters hate Girls In .... threads.

Dear Admin, having discussions of this sordid and disgusting subject, with horrific photographs is upsetting and distressing. I seriously think that discussions of this type are belittling and would stop some from participating in cake stop.

Can we please ban threads of a Political nature!

wishitwasallflat

It's an ideology - this is what they do when in power.

The only things about it that I find at all interesting are:

Why people seem to be surprised by it - it happens every time they are in power ?

Why do English people vote them in - it's not as if you are all selfish rich arsh**les is it?

PS - No fan of Gordon Brown but f*** me why on earth did you choose Cameron, Osbourne and the rest of the Bullingdon boys to run the country ?

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=bullin ... 33&bih=728

plowmar

Sorry CambsNewbie, the economy was fine and borowing at an acceptable level until the last two years of the Labour administration when the banks had to be rescued ( due to their catastrific investments) and quantative easing introduced again to help the banks which instead of lending the money released kept it to bolster their balance sheets ( and to pay bonuses to non performing directors).

You may point to the relaxing of restraints on the banks by both Brown and Thatcher but just because you can do something it doesn't mean that you have to do it - due diligence I think it is called. Cr*p decisions for a pure profit motive starting in America led almost to the whole world going into recession.

What could any U K govt. have done to prevent that?.

Never mind I got my £10 pressie from the kind Mr Osborne so when I spend that the economy will be fine, just wish I had £40k to spend that might make more use, mighten it?

Frank the tank

markos1963 wrote:

I sometimes feel that Tory governments like to have recessions and the subsequent unemployment increases. They seem to use it as a way of controlling the labour market.

I don't believe they like a recession but they definitely like a very large pool of unemployed to pick from. It gets better when employers threaten the workforce with outsourcing and then there is a sizeable group of cheap immigrant labour aswell. It all makes it hard for the ordinary working bloke.

Then they wonder why no one has any money and the ecconomy dips into recession.

As for Brown and Balls leaving the country on the verge of bancruptcy perhaps if they hadn't had to spend billions bailing out failing banks IN ORDER TO PROTECT THE GENERAL POPULATION from total financial disaster due to the overindulgence, greed and arrogance of the few.

pinno

I did'nt really want to get into this one. Its unfortunate that we keep comparing the previous labour govt with the current old school tie bullingdon brigade. Blair was'nt 'labour', he was like a tory wet. Intent on sucking bush's 4rse in a manner not akin to a 'labour' administration.
At least Brown kept a lid on fuel prices because currently, whilst it may be producing a revenue windfall, it is driving up the cost of everything. The bullingdon brigade have absolutely no conception of what life is like for ordinary people and I cannot comprehend why people voted for them.
Herein lies the conundrum - now the Murdoch press has been stifled (and don't for a second underestimate the power they had) why is'nt British politics/politicians moving back towards much more solid ideologies? Labour or Tory: there is no choice because are both bereft of tangible ideology.

CambsNewbie

plowmar wrote:

Sorry CambsNewbie, the economy was fine and borowing at an acceptable level until the last two years of the Labour administration when the banks had to be rescued ( due to their catastrific investments) and quantative easing introduced again to help the banks which instead of lending the money released kept it to bolster their balance sheets ( and to pay bonuses to non performing directors).

You may point to the relaxing of restraints on the banks by both Brown and Thatcher but just because you can do something it doesn't mean that you have to do it - due diligence I think it is called. Cr*p decisions for a pure profit motive starting in America led almost to the whole world going into recession.

What could any U K govt. have done to prevent that?.

Never mind I got my £10 pressie from the kind Mr Osborne so when I spend that the economy will be fine, just wish I had £40k to spend that might make more use, mighten it?

According to BBC website in 2008/9 there was 5 quarters of negative growth And at the time of the election in 2010 growth had reached a crazy 1%!

Look I'm not a crazy die hard Tory, I voted labour before the last election. What frustrates me are two things. One is labour criticising the government when they really did mess. In a time of record tax revenue how did they still spend more than came in? Why was nothing saved? Why sell all our gold for about $200 per oz when it's now $1600+ per oz? why did they let the benefits culture get totally out of hand? I could go on..

The second thing that frustrates me is when people use such emotive language and make bold sweeping statements such as the Tories want recession. Just think about it logically. Surely they want the economy to boom to prove they were right? And all this talk of Tory rich boys looking after their own. Approx 10 million people in this country voted Tory in 2010. All we all rich boys? I know I'm not. Lets face it more people voted conservative than labour. It's a fact.

Anyway.. End of rant. I'm sure people will post more pics of Cameron drinking champagne (because labour never have or do??) and post their own views of things..

TheStone

plowmar wrote:

the economy was fine and borowing at an acceptable level until the last two years of the Labour administration

Are you being serious?

The recession was inevitable given the excess of a decade. The only way to avoid it is to get further and further into public debt and leave the next generation to try to pay it off. Or we can face up to our problems and realise we can't have everything all the time. Privately and publicly we have to live within our means.

But then contrary to that, the only section of GDP that's grown since 2008 is ..... government spending. Go figure??

(I would like to make clear that I'm not a Tory supporter and agree with a lot of the other things the OP points out, but to pretend that somehow we can get growth without irresponsible lending in nonsense)

The recession is the healing process.

ddraver

Would like to add to Cambs post that the same global factors affected, that's right, the globe - However, Britain was significantly more affected by it that the rest of Northern Europe - even with the euro troubles they re also dealing with - and THAT is a fault of the 1997+ labour govt.

kev77

there all a bleeding joke!

they do not give a rats bottom truthfully about any of us, they look after numero uno and i do too!

our local council has just released a report that 15 staff earn 100k+ fook knows doing what exactly because the town is going backwards

I am stuck in the country because the misses will not emigrate, suck it and see i suppose

MaxwellBygraves

Part of me can't help but notice how Europe today seems insistent on replicating the 1930's...it's a bit scary...

Jez mon

Not a labour fan at all really, but fundamentally, the coalition has seemingly lost the plot. But let's not be silly, the Tory party don't want a recession, difficult economic conditions do make it easier to push some of the Conservative ideology, but fundamentally, they want their ideology to result in economic success.

Now, onto the actual situation...

So, we're officially in recession again. The key really is though, that no one really has a clear idea over what to do about things, the most recent budget wasn't IMO as bad as some make out, however, the media smelt blood over it. Having said that, there was very little I could see which aimed to promote growth.

pliptrot

kev77 wrote:

I am stuck in the country because the misses will not emigrate, suck it and see i suppose

So if she would, where would you go and what would you do?

finchy

CambsNewbie wrote:

. What frustrates me are two things. One is labour criticising the government when they really did mess.

I agree that it can seem a bit ridiculous, but seeing as they are the opposition, isn't it their job (the one we pay them to do), to scrutinise the government?

I'd be more annoyed about Tony Blair opening his big, smarmy, unapologetic gob though.

rick_chasey

Hmm.

Tempted to wade in soon.

Suffice to say, the more pressing issues facing the UK are the French and Dutch gov'ts.

And, whether you agree with him or not, Ed Balls will now have to be listened to - he's been saying this would happen for 6 months and now it has.

TheStone

Rick Chasey wrote:

And, whether you agree with him or not, Ed Balls will now have to be listened to - he's been saying this would happen for 6 months and now it has.

In this case he's stating the obvious. If you increase govt borrowing/spending, you will increase GDP. Doesn't make it right.

Why the tories thought they could avoid a double dip, I've got no idea. Let's be clear, the cuts haven't really started yet. Government spending is still rising. It's the only thing that's rising.

We had a massive debt bubble, which caused large growth in GDP. Now the bubble has burst, maintaining that GDP level (or even increasing it) is almost impossible.

rick_chasey

TheStone wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

And, whether you agree with him or not, Ed Balls will now have to be listened to - he's been saying this would happen for 6 months and now it has.

In this case he's stating the obvious. If you increase govt borrowing/spending, you will increase GDP. Doesn't make it right.

Why the tories thought they could avoid a double dip, I've got no idea. Let's be clear, the cuts haven't really started yet. Government spending is still rising. It's the only thing that's rising.

For sure. But by stating the obvious (as opposed to talking bull) he earns the right to be listened to. Politically.

TheStone

Rick Chasey wrote:

For sure. But by stating the obvious (as opposed to talking bull) he earns the right to be listened to. Politically.

Maybe.

Can't agree with him though. This is our mess to sort out. Continually throwing more debt onto our kids to pretend there's nothing wrong is not fair.

We haven't fought a world war, we've just spent too much on our house.

Pross

Surely it's just semantics? OK, we officially came out of recession but have only been in tenths of percentage points growth. Now we have had contraction of similar levels for two quarters. In reality the economy is just stagnant and if you ask most people they would say it has just been one long recession rather than a double dip. The biggest problem is that now it is officially a double dip what little confidence there is out there might get snubbed out. In the construction industry I've seen things look like they might pick up then drop back again, no-one seems to have the confidence to actually commit all out to projects.

rick_chasey

Pross wrote:

Surely it's just semantics? OK, we officially came out of recession but have only been in tenths of percentage points growth. Now we have had contraction of similar levels for two quarters. In reality the economy is just stagnant and if you ask most people they would say it has just been one long recession rather than a double dip. The biggest problem is that now it is officially a double dip what little confidence there is out there might get snubbed out. In the construction industry I've seen things look like they might pick up then drop back again, no-one seems to have the confidence to actually commit all out to projects.

Contractions are a big deal.

The figures are genuinely a sign that there isn't enough heat in the economy.

TheStone

Pross wrote:

Surely it's just semantics?

I agree. You could have quarters of:
-5.0%
+0.1%
-5.0%
+0.1%
-5.0%
+0.1%
and never be in recession

or have
-0.1%
-0.1%
and be in recession.

As measured by GDP, we're in a much bigger contraction than the 1930s.

But when the GDP growth has mostly come from a decade of reckless and unsustainable debt, why are we even questioning a contraction?

LeicesterLad

Came on here to see if i could add to the discussion any. I got a 'U' at maths GCSE. This thread is like a nightmare. I'm going now.

ddraver

TheStone wrote:

Pross wrote:

Surely it's just semantics?

I agree. You could have quarters of:
-5.0%
+0.1%
-5.0%
+0.1%
-5.0%
+0.1%
and never be in recession

or have
-0.1%
-0.1%
and be in recession.

As measured by GDP, we're in a much bigger contraction than the 1930s.

But when the GDP growth has mostly come from a decade of reckless and unsustainable debt, why are we even questioning a contraction?

Well put Tim! It's not like anything real has changed significantly, only the opinions in the minds of men. The mess has been made over a long period of time and, unfortunatly, it's going to take a long time to clear it up. In reality, a flicker around the amount of growth should nt matter - what matters is that the amount of growth for Europe and the UK (and it's time UK stopped pretending that there's any difference) is zero

Frank the tank

No doubt it will take time for the ecconomy to come good, but in answer to the stone, the reason a contraction is being questioned is because all the cut backs and austerity measures being inflicted on the masses was to avoid such an occurance according to gorgeous George and Dave the rave. And it doesn't appear to be working, that's why.