Back To Tubes...

adrenalinemunki

So, had a bigger run yesterday (the Monkey at Cannock) and now I... hate tubeless.

Only because it caused me so much grief.

Set the tyres at 30psi before I went (they have held their pressure all week by the way) but during the run they were slowly going down, the odd burp over rock gardens and roots and they were soon getting pretty soft... Stopped to put more air in the rear and was fighting against hissing and milk pissing out from the beading, then the core blew out of the valve and it shot off down the hillside. Straight back to tubes at the rear and off I go...

Stage two of the tubeless dabarcle:

On probably my favourite part of the monkey, I make a relatively sharp turn, the front tyre blows off, the rim digs into the mud at an angle and chucks me over the handle bars giving me a sore head and shoulder, after walking down the remainder of my favourite descent and having to ask passers by if I could buy a tube off them (since I only bought one) I'm back to fully tubed and on my way trouble free.

Suffice to say, I'm now in the "not worth the hassle" camp... Maybe I didn't set it up quite right, but air burping problems aside, chucking me off has definitely made me lose confidence in it.

So there we go, back to tubes for me.

vanamees

tubeless is not for everyone.

Rankles

vanamees wrote:

tubeless is not for everyone.

From his story it's not for anyone...

I don't ride tubeless but does anyone have any idea why this might have happened? Surely it can't be normal?

sanchez89

hmmm, over my time at cannock, which is basically every week, i have never had a single issue.

but the setup you used was a tubeless rim strip on just on a standard DT swiss rim if i remember right yeah?

my Crests have never given me any problems with tyres burping, or any leaking of air around the bead areas of the different tyres i have tried.

if your tyres were a looser fit on the rims before tubeless conversion this will not help. the tighter the fit between tyre and rim the better. thats why Stans rims work so well.

i dont think the bead locking into the rim will be as strong either.

Chinley Churner

I'm a complete convert...

I run tubeless on my triathlon race bike (Corima rims and Hutchinson tyres), cross bike (Campag Zonda rims, Stan's conversion and a variety of tyres), singlespeed (Bonty rims with strips and Bonty Mud TLR tyres) and on my Giant XTC 0 29er (Giant rims, Stans strips and Schwalbe Racing Ralph Evos)... all of those work great, the common theme is that getting the tyres on is bit of a battle but I think that's a hint that they'll stay put....

Number of punctures in 3 years of being tubeless.. 2. One coming off Snowdon when a slate ripped a four inch gash in my side wall and the other on the SS when I was trying to run less them 20 psi to get grip on snow and it burped.

I do curse and swear when changing tyres and have had some seating battles but, balancing out, well worth the hassle. I'm lucky enough to live in the Dark Peak so my local trails are all rocky pinch flat fests if you run tubes.. those are now a distant memory.

cat_with_no_tail

Chinley Churner wrote:

I'm a complete convert...

I run tubeless on my triathlon race bike (Corima rims and Hutchinson tyres), cross bike (Campag Zonda rims, Stan's conversion and a variety of tyres), singlespeed (Bonty rims with strips and Bonty Mud TLR tyres) and on my Giant XTC 0 29er (Giant rims, Stans strips and Schwalbe Racing Ralph Evos)... all of those work great, the common theme is that getting the tyres on is bit of a battle but I think that's a hint that they'll stay put....

Number of punctures in 3 years of being tubeless.. 2. One coming off Snowdon when a slate ripped a four inch gash in my side wall and the other on the SS when I was trying to run less them 20 psi to get grip on snow and it burped.

I do curse and swear when changing tyres and have had some seating battles but, balancing out, well worth the hassle. I'm lucky enough to live in the Dark Peak so my local trails are all rocky pinch flat fests if you run tubes.. those are now a distant memory.

+1 on all of this. Our local routes here are that exact same rocky pinch-flat fest, ideal territory for a proper tubeless setup.

I maintain that if you're going to go tubeless, you need to do it properly. Proper tubeless rims and proper tubeless (or at the very least tubeless ready) tyres.

IMHO, if you don't use the proper kit for the job, you can't really complain when it dosent work properly.

adrenalinemunki

Well... it was fairly easy to seat my tyres, so maybe thats a hint... maybe the connection between bead and rim just wasn't good enough to begin with?

Who knows... all I know is you need confidence in your set up so it doesn't limit you and thats how I'd feel for the foreseeable future tbh which is a shame I guess but hey ho...

sanchez89

adrenalinemunki wrote:

Well... it was fairly easy to seat my tyres, so maybe thats a hint... maybe the connection between bead and rim just wasn't good enough to begin with?

Who knows... all I know is you need confidence in your set up so it doesn't limit you and thats how I'd feel for the foreseeable future tbh which is a shame I guess but hey ho...

yeah, but if you were willing to take the plunge, and it is a deep plunge, on a proper tubeless job, either Stans or full UST im sure you would realise where you current attempt went wrong. i have nothing but confidence in my tubeless setup. and will do from now on.

felix.london

So I shouldn't have any issues with Stans ArchEX rims, Stan's No Tubes Kit and a pair of either Conti BC Mountain King II's or BC Rubber Queen's (both non-UST)?

getonyourbike

I'm not happy with tubeless either. The tyres feel really unstable at anything other than higher than normal pressures and they burp easier than I'd like.

felix.london

getonyourbike wrote:

I'm not happy with tubeless either. The tyres feel really unstable at anything other than higher than normal pressures and they burp easier than I'd like.

That doesn't sound good - the whole reason I want to go tubeless is so I can run lower tyre pressures - especially on the back (HT rider)

milfredo

Use some UST rims and tyres and they will not blow off or burp. This only happens with standard tyres and rims made into tubless. UST may be heavier but it works and is as bomb proof as any tyres / tube combo.

sanchez89

felix.london wrote:

So I shouldn't have any issues with Stans ArchEX rims, Stan's No Tubes Kit and a pair of either Conti BC Mountain King II's or BC Rubber Queen's (both non-UST)?

no you shouldn't have any issues. the pretty much guaranteed combo to work is UST rims and tyres. but there is a weight penalty with that.

if you go down the stans route you may find problems with some tyres. for example new schwalbe's are a real pain. but older 1's are fine.

the tubeless ready style of tyres help to stiffen up the sidewalls of normal tyres without resorting to UST. the tubeless ready (2bliss) Specialized eskar i used never felt wobbly and flexy at all.

mrmonkfinger

Don't buy lightweight tyres, you need thicker sidewalls. You no longer have the tube helping to support the sidewall.

As for burping... with narrow rim strips, normal rims & normal tyres = asking for bead problems IMO. Going the ghetto route with split BMX tubes may very well fix it.

sandy771

felix.london wrote:

getonyourbike wrote:

I'm not happy with tubeless either. The tyres feel really unstable at anything other than higher than normal pressures and they burp easier than I'd like.

That doesn't sound good - the whole reason I want to go tubeless is so I can run lower tyre pressures - especially on the back (HT rider)

I have standard Giant s-xc2 rims with Nobby Nics (non-tubeless) they were a faff to inflate but now they are on I don'y lose any air, they don't burp and they run happily at a range of pressures (30 at the mo, have been down at 22). No lack of stability at the lower pressures.

Anonymous

I've got tubeless ready rims, and loads tell me it's the future, but I'm not convinced. While they don't get pinch flats, all I see is hassle if you want to change the tyres or do get a proper puncture, and the quick fix is often... a tube!

Messy and hassle, and frankly I've had one pinch flat in 3 years, and that was a few minutes into the ride on a new bike so suspect dodgy tube or fitting. In fact that's the only flat I've had in 3 years. I ride about 30psi with tubes, sometimes a little less in wet root conditions. Minion DHF and HR, single ply folding tyres.

adrenalinemunki

Another factor is that going tubeless influences (and reduces) your choice of tyres...

Mccraque

I really don't get all this tubeless knocking...

I've been tubeless now for 3 years and it is without question the biggest improvement I have made to a bike. I used to flat so regularly it was untrue. I've had two incidents running tubeless in that same period. once I blew a tyre off with way too much air (and a 2.0 tyremud tyre really not designed for such feats) and once I gashed out on some flint. Had I stans (rather than Bontrager) sealant in at that time, I think it would be just the one flat. Both times I have put a tube in to get home. No big deal.

In that same period, I've pulled goodness knows how many thorns, hawthorns etc from my tyre, had no pinchflats to date and dont suffer from burping, even though I'm 14.5 stone, and smash the bike around a bit. I run a 30 PSI tyre usually.

I also run UST on my trail bike and TR on the racebike (XT and Stans rims respectively)

I've 4 mates (soon to be 5) that all run tubeless. Nobody has had an issue other than 1 tyre that would not seat easily on a mavic rim, one who blew a tyre off his rim (and folded the rim/snapped spokes) at the same time in the same place that I blew mine (as per above). Other than that...all good.

andyg1966

I'm in the pro tubeless camp. I've had UST tyres on UST rims for nearly 3 years and only had to repair a tyre once due to a large gash from a sharp stone and the Stans inside that almost sealed! Fortunately the tyre was 80% worn so was binned when back home.

Using Continental Mountain King UST 2.2's on Fulcrum Red Metal 3 and Mavic 819s.

Anonymous

In my opinion - less use of puncture vulnerable thin tyres, don't go riding into thorny bushes where there is no trail, don't run stupidly low pressure. No punctures, no need for tubeless.

Chinley Churner

deadkenny wrote:

In my opinion - less use of puncture vulnerable thin tyres, don't go riding into thorny bushes where there is no trail, don't run stupidly low pressure. No punctures, no need for tubeless.

I think you might change your opinion if you rode every day on rocky trails.. as with the 29er thread though, horses for courses.. whatever works for you.

adrenalinemunki

Yeah but mccraque, you've obviously got a proper tubeless setup, what I have lost faith in is going tubeless with my existing kit which although "tubeless ready" is obviously not quite up to the job...

I was willing to try it for £30 more out of interest than anything and it caused me grief and an accident so of course, my kit is not quite up to the job, but as someone who rarely gets flats anyway, going back to tubes is fine by me...

rickyrider

Cat With No Tail wrote:

I maintain that if you're going to go tubeless, you need to do it properly. Proper tubeless rims and proper tubeless (or at the very least tubeless ready) tyres.

IMHO, if you don't use the proper kit for the job, you can't really complain when it dosent work properly.

This.

toasty

I've had a standard Nobby Nic 2.4, run tubless on a Flow rim with yellow tape for a few years now. Ride the Monkey near every weekend, no issues. Been riding there most weekends for what must be 4 years or something now, can't have had more than 1-2 punctures. The idea of running 150g heavier tyres for absolutely no gain doesn't hugely appeal, it'd be like swapping my decent wheels for some £50 ones.

Used to run the rear tubeless, on Ralphs, Ardents and Nics, didn't ever get on with it, always found it too soft feeling, which was great on the front, bit draggy on the back. Proper tubeless tyres would sort it, as does a 100g tube though. The Ralph actually died when a huge nail went through it going down a cheeky trail with wood work on it :?

Don't think I'd ever buy proper UST to be honest, I like using light tyres and 50g or so of Stans for the weight saving, and softer feeling, as much as the puncture resistance.

Mccraque

adrenalinemunki wrote:

Yeah but mccraque, you've obviously got a proper tubeless setup, what I have lost faith in is going tubeless with my existing kit which although "tubeless ready" is obviously not quite up to the job...

My Trail bike is UST rims, UST tyres - although through the winter I run a TR Mud X. I like the surety of UST on this. Rocks, air and me being a lump contributing to my thinking there

My Race bike has stand crest rims and TR Rocket Rons. Works very very well and have been impressed to date save for permeable sidewalls that mean I lose pressure over a couple of weeks. But nothing that needs attention during a 1 day ride or enduro race.

I also went ghetto last year....on my old wheels I chopped up an innertube and mounted a Maxxis crossmark on Ritchey rim. It took a lot of faff but worked brilliantly all summer. Interestingly when I tried to recreate with a stans "proper" rim strip (the half inner tube type thing rather than tape)....could I mount it? could I fu.....

jairaj

Cat With No Tail wrote:

I maintain that if you're going to go tubeless, you need to do it properly. Proper tubeless rims and proper tubeless (or at the very least tubeless ready) tyres.

IMHO, if you don't use the proper kit for the job, you can't really complain when it dosent work properly.

100% agree to this. Either use a UST rims and tyres or Stans type rim with a special bead lock. Converting standard rims and wheels is not worth it at all.

mrmonkfinger

jairaj wrote:

Converting standard rims and wheels is both easy, cheap, and works very well.

FTFY

jairaj

But its not easy and doesn't work very well. Hence lots of threads of people who can't get it working correctly or not happy their tyre blew off the rim...

It is cheap yes but so are inner tubes.