Will Ultegra 6700 brakes work with Tiagra levers?

Huntos

I decided to upgrade the not very impressive Sora brakes on my 09 Cube Aerial (rest of the spec is Tiagra) and have bought some unused Ultegra 6700 calipers. However having bought them I have read in the spec that they are only supposed to be used with 6700 or 7900 levers to get the correct leverage - will they work ok with my Tiagra levers?

I like the bike and in the long run I had planned to upgrade to full Ultegra/dura ace 10 speed running gear (currently 9 speed tripple) however I can't afford this at this stage and ideally just wanted to fit the brakes.

Yossie

They'll work fine as in stop you before you get dead from crashing into a wall disease but for full power and feel you'll have to match them to the correct levers - I ran older (2004) Ultegra calipers with last summer's 105 levers and although they worked fine, if unremarkably, putting a corresponding 105 brake on improved eveything by about 500%.

But as I said, yup, no wories at all about them stopping you when needed.

migrantwing

Yossie wrote:

...putting a corresponding 105 brake on improved eveything by about 500%.

Really? Why is that? Very interesting, Yossie.

Yossie

It matched up the different ratios from the old Ultegra caliper to the new 105 caliper - before it did the job but had no feel or real stopping power (it felt like you were braking with freezing cold fingers and a shot cable even when everything was new) but with the new lever it had lots of feel and braked a lot better.

I think that they changed all the ratoios (105/Ultegra/Dura Ace) at the same time to match the levers.

sturmey

Makes me laugh all this Shimano tech claptrap saying that you 'MUST use 6700 sti's with 6700 brakes' etc.

Let's consider the fact that time trial bikes need brakes too, the difference here being they don't use sti shifters. Yet they still put Ultegra and Dura Ace brake calipers on the bikes even those sold by the big brands as fully built bikes.

In other words, it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You will still stop well enough.

Yossie

sturmey wrote:

Makes me laugh all this Shimano tech claptrap saying that you 'MUST use 6700 sti's with 6700 brakes' etc.

Let's consider the fact that time trial bikes need brakes too, the difference here being they don't use sti shifters. Yet they still put Ultegra and Dura Ace brake calipers on the bikes even those sold by the big brands as fully built bikes.

In other words, it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You will still stop well enough.

Exactly - stop well enough. But why stop well enough when you can stop 100%?

Agree that it's not essential, but I personally like to have everything matched and working as the designer wanted it to.

But that's just me, everyone is different and I don't bemoan people's rights to do what they want.

sturmey

Yossie wrote:

sturmey wrote:

Makes me laugh all this Shimano tech claptrap saying that you 'MUST use 6700 sti's with 6700 brakes' etc.

Let's consider the fact that time trial bikes need brakes too, the difference here being they don't use sti shifters. Yet they still put Ultegra and Dura Ace brake calipers on the bikes even those sold by the big brands as fully built bikes.

In other words, it doesn't matter as much as you think it does. You will still stop well enough.

Exactly - stop well enough. But why stop well enough when you can stop 100%?

Agree that it's not essential, but I personally like to have everything matched and working as the designer wanted it to.

But that's just me, everyone is different and I don't bemoan people's rights to do what they want.

The point i was making is that you CAN'T MATCH YOUR STi's TO YOUR BRAKE CALIPERS on a TT bike.
So how would you 'have everything matched' ,as you put it, in this scenario?
Cos it's not possible.

fortyone

I use Campag Record QS levers and 6700 calipers - work perfectly. Like to use Shimano calipers because they are easier to adjust, ie to centre properly. I see too many cyclists with badly adjusted calipers, when it is a simple task to correct them.

migrantwing

Never thought about the matching ratios. Cheers, Yossie!

mister p

sturmey wrote:

The point i was making is that you CAN'T MATCH YOUR STi's TO YOUR BRAKE CALIPERS on a TT bike.
So how would you 'have everything matched' ,as you put it, in this scenario?
Cos it's not possible.

You can match your brake levers to your callipers on a TT bike. If you have older callipers you run BL-TT78 levers. If you have newer callipers you run BL-TT79 levers.

sturmey

mister p wrote:

sturmey wrote:

The point i was making is that you CAN'T MATCH YOUR STi's TO YOUR BRAKE CALIPERS on a TT bike.
So how would you 'have everything matched' ,as you put it, in this scenario?
Cos it's not possible.

You can match your brake levers to your callipers on a TT bike. If you have older callipers you run BL-TT78 levers. If you have newer callipers you run BL-TT79 levers.

Err, come again?
What are 'older callipers' and 'newer callipers' when they're at home?

mister p

Older Shimano callipers are models from the groupsets without hidden shifter cables. Groups like Dura Ace 7800, Ultegra 6600, etc.

Newer callipers are from the groups with hidden shifer cables, Dura Ace 7900, Ultegra 6700, etc. These are the ones with the modified cable pull. So if you have these you should run BL-TT79 brake levers on your TT bike.

jameses

As far as I understand it, the difference is in the modulation (or 'feel') of the callipers. More recent callipers are designed to travel a shorter distance with an equivalent amount of pull on the levers; this allows you to change the pressure the callipers are putting on the rims by smaller fractions.
Older levers will pull in more cable, so more recent callipers will move from engaging the brake surface to locking up the wheel in a shorter pull than was intended, so you will have less control over the braking force.

In practice, all conventional calliper rim brakes work in the same fashion so you can mix and match callipers and brake levers - it's just a couple of levers and a cable, after all!

For the record, I have ultegra 6500 levers and 6600 callipers and they work just fine.

mister p

6500 and 6600 have the same cable pull, they are both from older groupsets.

sturmey

mister p wrote:

Older Shimano callipers are models from the groupsets without hidden shifter cables. Groups like Dura Ace 7800, Ultegra 6600, etc.

Newer callipers are from the groups with hidden shifer cables, Dura Ace 7900, Ultegra 6700, etc. These are the ones with the modified cable pull. So if you have these you should run BL-TT79 brake levers on your TT bike.

So all other TT style brake levers(non-Shimano),irrespective of quality/cost are going to give you inferior braking performance if used with these 'newer' calipers??!
That seems unlikely.

jameses

mister p wrote:

6500 and 6600 have the same cable pull, they are both from older groupsets.

That would explain why it works fine, then! So 5700, 6700 and 7800 callipers onwards will have the new length cable pull, right?

xpro

So, i have a new pair of Shimano Ultegra 6700 Dual-pivot calliper brakes, I was going to pair them with some 105 lever/shifters, purely cause of the cost of ultegra ones. Are the 105's going to have the correct setup to operate these callipers?