Canyon Ultimate CF EVO frame: size advice

parajba

Hi,

I currently ride on a Cervelo S2 size 54 with a 120mm stem and it feels good.
What would be the Canyon Ultimate CF equivalent frame size?

My measurements are:
175cm tall
83cm inseam
60cm torso
63cm arms
66 kg

According to the Canyon website I need a size 54. But a Canyon size 54 seems too big when compared to the geometry of my Cervelo S2 size 54. I'd appreciate your views...I like compact bikes, I do crits and road races. Back flexibility is good.

I live near Richmond Park (London), has anybody got a Canyon 52 and 54 I could have a look at...?

Thanks for your help!

itsnotarace

If you compare the geometries in 54cm the Canyon has a 1cm longer headtube so has slightly higher stack. You could get around this by specifying a 110mm -17 stem

parajba

Thanks for your input! Much obliged.
And a Canyon size 52 with a 120mm 'normal' stem...what do you think?

itsnotarace

52cm Canyon would need 130mm -6 stem as the top tube is 12mm shorter than the Cervelo 54.

styxd

What seat tube angle does your Cervelo have?

parajba

My Cervelo has a 73 degree seat tube angle...

styxd

I was trying to find geometry for it and noticed it was also available in a 76 aswell.

Worth noting the seat angle of both frames as this obviously has an affect on the TT length. I'm assuming the Canyon has the same seat angle? If its steeper then you'll need to run a bit more layback on yor seatpost to end up in the same position over the pedals as you would on your Cervelo (hope that makes sense)

furrag

I had an S1 56cm. It was too big.

I'm 179cm tall
82.3cm inseam
63.8cm torso
65.4cm arm
71kg

I have a Ultimate AL Canyon and am also by Richmond Park, however the geometries are different if I recall correctly in the seattube, so am not sure what you would gain. In hindsight, I wish I'd gone for a 52cm (top tube is 53.4cm I think - or at least it was last year). I've always been told that if in doubt, always go one smaller - you'll be able to extend reach with a stem. If you find it's too small, I think I'd be happy to swap frames.

styxd

Ive had a look at the geometry now. The Canyons have a steeper seat angle, so you'll be sat further forward in relation to the BB.

You'll need to run more saddle setback to get the same position over the bb as yo have on the Cervelo. Therefore I'd say you want to size down and go for a 52 rather than a 54.

parajba

Thanks everybody for the replies! Much obliged!

@Furrag: thanks for the offer, but unfortunately the Ultimate AL has different geometry from the Ultimate CF...But you seem to confirm styxd's theory that I need a 52.

@ styxd: So you confirm my theory that a 52 would be better than a 54 given my measurements. Perhaps with a 120mm stem then. Or 110mm would be enough?
I don't understand one thing. The Canyon Ultimate CF is available in 50-52-54-56-58-60-62-64. I'm 175cm, not incredibly tall but not incredibly short either. How is it possible that I need such a small frame? The average height in the UK is 175cm I think, so I would expect to need the 'average' frame which is 56-58. Does it make sense?

styxd

All Im saying is that the seat angle on the canyon is steeper, this means the top tube length is shorter.

But, if you want to sit in the same position as you do on the Cervelo then you will need to run more set back on the saddle/seat post. Thus effectively slackening the seat angle and lengthening the top tube. You need to measure your current saddle set back and saddle height. Its also useful if you can draw these things up - it makes it easier to work out. CAD is useful.

Its basic trigonometry.

parajba

styxd wrote:

All Im saying is that the seat angle on the canyon is steeper, this means the top tube length is shorter.

But, if you want to sit in the same position as you do on the Cervelo then you will need to run more set back on the saddle/seat post. Thus effectively slackening the seat angle and lengthening the top tube. You need to measure your current saddle set back and saddle height. Its also useful if you can draw these things up - it makes it easier to work out. CAD is useful.

Its basic trigonometry.

I measured the setback by doing the following:

Place back wheel against wall
Measure from wall to saddle tip
Measure from wall to BB
Subtract BB measurement

it's -5.5cm.

My saddle height is 73.5cm.

styxd

Well, I just drew it in CAD for you, and at that saddle height, theres about a 25mm (closer to 27 actually) difference between the two. So if you have an inline post at the moment, to sit in the same position over the BB on the Canyon, you need to move the saddle 25mm further back, so you'd need a layback seatpost. This lengthens the TT length by 25mm obviously. So I'd say a 52 looks to be about the right size.

styxd

I guess theres more to it than this, but I like to try and sit in a similar position over the BB on all my bikes, otherwise my legs feel funny (if Im too far forward or too far backward)

parajba

styxd wrote:

Well, I just drew it in CAD for you, and at that saddle height, theres about a 25mm (closer to 27 actually) difference between the two. So if you have an inline post at the moment, to sit in the same position over the BB on the Canyon, you need to move the saddle 25mm further back, so you'd need a layback seatpost. This lengthens the TT length by 25mm obviously. So I'd say a 52 looks to be about the right size.

Wow, you are quick and good. Do you believe me if I say that I tried to use DraftSight for the 1st time (good CAD for Mac) last night and wasted 3 hours and ended up with nothing? ;-)

If I go for a 52 Canyon Ultimate CF, what stem would you recommend? 120mm like with my current S2? or 110mm actually given the steeper angle on the Canyon?

styxd

Thats upto you!

parajba

Decided to book in an appointment at BespokeCycling for a cycle fit...Thanks all for the patience!

andylav

Just a quick point guys - the seat tube on the Cervelo is only 76 degrees if you're using the dual position seat post and have the saddle mounted in the forward / tri position.

With the saddle in the normal 'road' / rear position in the dual post, or in the single position offered in the carbon aero post, the Cervelo seat tube angle is 73 degrees

I have a Cervelo R3 and a carbon Soloist - both size 54 with 120mm stems - and have been looking at a Canyon Ultimate frame with some interest also (I'm 5'9" with a 31" inside leg).

If a Canyon was to be purchased, I'd be buying a 54 frame and fitting a 120 mm stem to replicate my position - the only notable differences between the two set ups that I could find were that the seat tube length on the Canyon is 2 cm longer than the Cervelo (although the centre to centre measurements are only 1 cm apart) and the head tube on the Canyon is 1 cm taller than the Cervelo, although the Acos headset and spacer stack that Canyon ship the frames with means that the stem / bar height will actually be exactly the same as on my Cervelo without any adjustment.

Good luck with your purchase if you decide to go a head with it - would be good to hear of your buying experience and thoughts of the frame / build

ShutUpLegs

andylav wrote:

I have a Cervelo R3 and a carbon Soloist - both size 54 with 120mm stems - and have been looking at a Canyon Ultimate frame with some interest also (I'm 5'9" with a 31" inside leg).

If a Canyon was to be purchased, I'd be buying a 54 frame and fitting a 120 mm stem to replicate my position

Out of interest, what size does the Canyon PPS recommend?

parajba

styxd wrote:

Well, I just drew it in CAD for you, and at that saddle height, theres about a 25mm (closer to 27 actually) difference between the two. So if you have an inline post at the moment, to sit in the same position over the BB on the Canyon, you need to move the saddle 25mm further back, so you'd need a layback seatpost. This lengthens the TT length by 25mm obviously. So I'd say a 52 looks to be about the right size.

Hi Styxd,

I did a cycle fit assessment yesterday and the guy suggested I should be a 52 Canyon, so well done for saying the same (amongst other things he shortened my stem from 120mm to 110mm on my current Cervelo S2 size 54).

Here the recommendation:

Your position details are as follows: Saddle Height: 733mm, Saddle Setback 59mm, Reach to the Bars (Horizontal): 528mm, Reach to the tip of the levers: 584mm, Drop from saddle to bars: 107mm. Horizontal Reach from BB to Bars: 474mm, Vertical Stack from BB to Bars: 602mm. Cranks: 172.5mm, Bars: 40c/c (Deda Zero 100 42s), Levers: Sram Red (Old shape)

(1) Reach to the bars (Horizontal): this is the measurement if you take a tape measure horizontally (not directly) from the nose of the saddle to the centre of the handle bars (where the stem clamps the bars). This measurement describes where the bars are in space in relation the the saddle in the horizontal plane, the bar drop explains where they are in the vertical plane.

Would you mind checking with CAD if the above quotes are compatible with a Canyon 52? You seem really quick at using CAD...

itboffin

Interesting thread, i'm in the same position myself, I popped over to Koblenz last month and the guys there sized me as a 52 which is a little confusing as I had a fitting at the bike whisperer a couple of years ago on my 56 Trek which fits perfectly, if I go with the 52 i'm going to have 2.5cm of reach and 2.5° of seat tube angle to adjust for, I havent a clue when it comes to CAD.

Any recommendations on stem length? what did you're bike fit say you'd need with a 52 frame?