Choices.....

gtvlusso

I *may* have a relocation with work coming up;

Either; Bedminster, New jersey, USA or Sydney Australia.......

I am not sure what to do........Both jobs look good, both locations look good.

What would be top on your relocation list (bear in mind that I have a young family and the every stinking Wilma hound)?

asprilla

Oz.

Cost of living is huge at the moment (as evidenced by a survey of the cost of a baked potato in an a cafe we did in the office the other day) and it rains for more days and for more volume in Sydney that it does in London each year.

However, living in the US would be my idea of hell.

SimonAH

Oz. No contest.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Right. Hands up who has been to Bedminster, NJ.

Anyone?

mudcow007

Sydney you flamin' g-larr (see what i did there)

i have family over in NZ who keep telling me to move over there...i wanna go but the mrs is reluctant

davis

Nice position to be in!

Ben6899

Out of those two, then Oz. The work ethics/employment laws in USA are ridiculous.

However, if someone told me I had to move to Oz, then Sydney would be at the bottom of my list I'm afraid.

TheStone

Been to the US many times, would hate to live there, despite the fact that everyone there thinks it's the greatest place ever.

gtvlusso

Greg66 wrote:

Right. Hands up who has been to Bedminster, NJ.

Anyone?

Errr......me!

Very nice it is too, named after Bedminster in Brizzle....bizarre old world innit!

Kieran_Burns

New Zealand is where all the people who moved to Oz wish they'd moved to.

EKE_38BPM

I've never been to Oz but I've been to the US and New Jersey loads of times. I'd choose Oz.

veronese68

One of my neighbours moved to the US with his wife (a Yank) and 2 young kids. They came back early because they hated it. They were saying there was absolutely nothing to do unless you belong to a church group. He tried to cycle and had people driving at him and shouting at him to get off the road. He said it seems to vary tremendously according to the area. They were in South Carolina or somewhere, I think New Jersey would be rather better though. Worth checking though.
I know some people that love Oz, I know others that didn't get on with it and came back.
Let the Mrs decide, then she can't blame you if it doesn't live up to expectations.

rjsterry

gtvlusso wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Right. Hands up who has been to Bedminster, NJ.

Anyone?

Errr......me!

Very nice it is too, named after Bedminster in Brizzle....bizarre old world innit!

Thought you meant a choice of Bedminster *or* NJ *or* Sydney

Yeah, not the obvious choice when looking to name a new settlement, is it?

I wonder if there's a Yate?

EDIT: Best I can find is Yate Tank (WTF?) in New Mexico.

veronese68

davis wrote:

Nice position to be in!

I wouldn't want to go to either. I live in, what is for me, one of the best parts of what is undoubtedly one of the greatest cities in the world. Why on earth would I want to live anywhere else?

greg66_tri_v2.0

gtvlusso wrote:

Greg66 wrote:

Right. Hands up who has been to Bedminster, NJ.

Anyone?

Errr......me!

Very nice it is too, named after Bedminster in Brizzle....bizarre old world innit!

I will hazard a guess that you're the only person here equipped with this knowledge.

Sydney: young, cosmopolitan cool city. But with fair skin there's no way I'd want to live there. Holiday, yes. Residence, no.

There's not really a comparison to be made between Sydney and a town with a population of 8000 or so. Seems to me that you have to decide whether you want to live in a small town or a major world city.

TheStone

I think the future for Australia is much stronger than the US.
Economically and demographically the US is in a lot of trouble. Not as bad as the UK, but very bad.

mrc1

Some random thoughts:

Sydney probably has a much bigger Ex Pat community, so if you or the Mrs/kids would find comfort in that then it's worth bearing in mind. Could get pretty lonely for you wife if she wouldn't be working out there so its nice to have a sort of ready made group that you can use as much or as little as you like.

We know a couple who moved to the east coast of the US due to the bloke's work and while he loved it she hated it due to the loneliness factor. The problem she found was that if you live outside a city then everybody drives everywhere and you therefore end up feeling pretty trapped in your house every day. Ie get up drive kids to school, come home, sit in house all day, drive to school to collect kids, and repeat. She's pretty outgoing so it's not like she's a natural hermit - I just think she found it impossible to make friends who she could go and regularly meet up with.

Distance wise then its obviously a lot easier to have friends and family come out to visit NJ as compared to Aus, but I don't think this should be a long term thought. If you rely on your UK friends coming out to see you/or you regularly go home, then you probably won't integrate that well as you have the safety net to fall back on.

Final thought as this is a cycling thread is that I'd much rather be a cyclist in Sydney. There are loads of clubs and a big cycling culture down there so you'd be in good company from day 1!

I'd stay put but ultimately its only you that can make the call!

clarkey cat

I live in, what is for me, one of the best parts of what is undoubtedly one of the greatest cities in the world.

London is brillzos. Too many Aussies though.

gabriel959

TheStone wrote:

I think the future for Australia is much stronger than the US.
Economically and demographically the US is in a lot of trouble. Not as bad as the UK, but very bad.

You hit the nail on the head there.

Oz is very attractive, they have got a decently managed economy as well unlike the UK or the US.

I think culturally the change to Oz won't be as severe as moving to the US, and a small community none-the-less!

turnstyle

I left Perth 3 years ago but went back for my sis's wedding at the end of their winter last year. My god has the prices of everything jumped. I also forgot how limited the shopping centre shopping is with brands and opening times. It's a little cheaper on the east coast, but still nothing like how cheap the UK is.

Upside is the kids are going to have a massive swimming pool (Bondi) in their backyard and it's a fantastic country to grow up in.

aeon

i'm australian and lived in sydney for a decade. i love it, and if you're going to move there, it'd be good to do it while the kids are fairly young. it's a very expensive city, but the quality of life is pretty awesome.

there's a whole lot of outdoor activity available fairly cheaply, and actually there's an cultural resurgence too: some cool galleries (although not as many as melbourne), lots of live music, a world class food and drink culture, new think tanks popping up... it feels exciting and hip, but also more confident than it used to. it's never going to have the same depth that london does - it's a third the size, and a tenth the age - but i believe it's one of the world's great cities in its own right.

however, it's worth bearing in mind that although sydney is a major city by australian standards, it's also majorly far away from everything. you feel a bit more distant from the world; the timezone really doesn't help, and makes communication with family (important when you have kids) tough. it's a long way away from europe and you will notice it, although (relative) proximity to asia and new zealand is cool.

bedminster on the other hand is 40 miles from new york, which is by all accounts a pretty major city bear in mind sydney's pretty spread out, and living close to the centre is expensive. i had friends at school in sydney who lived further away than bedminster is from manhattan and commuted every day.

my folks (one english, one australian) moved to the states and they won't settle there. the lack of a social safety net, the healthcare costs, the crazies, the 2 weeks of annual leave a year... there are lots of things that convinced them they're fundamentally more european in outlook. that's not to say a country as diverse as the US can't house all kinds of awesome contradictions to the rule, but yeah. australia - despite an occasionally awful political culture, a couple of completely nuts states, and a lot of barely-concealed racism - is still a pretty cool place to grow up.

oh, and it may rain more often and in greater volume than london, but trust me... an intense 20min thunderstorm at 4pm that's bookended by 10 hours of brilliant sunshine is more conducive to outdoor living than 8 months of freezing drizzly overcastness. the weather will feel better - as long as you're not overly attached to really distinct seasons.

Wheelspinner

I'm a long time Sydney resident. I might be able to answer any queries you have in general about the place.. PM me if you need some info.

First and by far most important consideration is *where* is the office likely to be here? No company names needed, just a suburb if you have one...

I like the place, but commuting is a right royal PITA some days, dependent on your home/work locations. I do freelance consulting work and have had clients anywhere from 15 minutes away to a 150km round trip, all within the city limits. It's a big place.

As an aside, it will take months of quarantine to get Wilma in the country. Had a colleague at one company arrive here from 2 years in Switzerland, with the family pet dog... they waited 4 months I think before the dog was released from custody!

gtvlusso

Hi All,

Thanks for the really great feedback. The office is located in Pyrmont - apparently, it overlooks the Harbour bridge and I would be on a fairly high floor level......

I am still in negotiations regarding T & C's /Salary - but some idea of average salary in the area would be great + cost of living? i.e. How much is a pint? Litre of Petrol? Average food bill?

The consensus is leaning towards Sydney, so, fingers crossed that it all goes through. I think that working in the USA, as some posters have already pointed out, may be too much of a culture shock.

daviesee

As this is a cycling site, I would say this is the decider...

mrc1 wrote:

Final thought as this is a cycling thread is that I'd much rather be a cyclist in Sydney. There are loads of clubs and a big cycling culture down there so you'd be in good company from day 1!

I'd stay put but ultimately its only you that can make the call!

rolf_f

I'd prefer the dole queue in the UK!

If forced at gunpoint, it would have to be one of the US options. At least America is interesting in places (though NJ isn't really one of those places) and it's only five hours from civilization. It's only appropriate to go to Oz if you are being transported.

But I'd only go to the States for a fixed term and I wouldn't go to Oz for a 6 figure salary.

Seriously, it depends a bit on how much you like your friends and family here. You can get across the Atlantic in five hours for the price of a full price second class return train ticket from Leeds to London. People will be interested to come and visit you and you'll not mind making occasional trips back.

Go to Australia and everyone will make all sorts of promises to come over and visit, and you will to come back and visit. And then everyone will realise it costs a fortune and wastes 2 days of your life each time you do it and decide not to bother.

Wheelspinner

gtvlusso wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for the really great feedback. The office is located in Pyrmont - apparently, it overlooks the Harbour bridge and I would be on a fairly high floor level......

I am still in negotiations regarding T & C's /Salary - but some idea of average salary in the area would be great + cost of living? i.e. How much is a pint? Litre of Petrol? Average food bill?

The consensus is leaning towards Sydney, so, fingers crossed that it all goes through. I think that working in the USA, as some posters have already pointed out, may be too much of a culture shock.

Pyrmont is very inner city, and gibes you lots of options for where to live.

Petrol is about $1.50 a litre at moment, pints at pub maybe 4 to 5 depending on beer. But the expensive bit is housing. Somewhere decent with 3 bedrooms within 10 km of Pyrmont will be upwards of 600k to buy or rent will be 700 a week. Bl00dy expensive. TBH, a 6 figure salary is a starting point. Our government thinks families on 150 grand are still not "rich".

Food bills hard to guess, as I am not the most economical shopper!!!! But for 4 people I reckon 250 a week is ballpark.

greg66_tri_v2.0

Rolf F wrote:

I'd prefer the dole queue in the UK!

If forced at gunpoint, it would have to be one of the US options. At least America is interesting in places (though NJ isn't really one of those places) and it's only five hours from civilization. It's only appropriate to go to Oz if you are being transported.

But I'd only go to the States for a fixed term and I wouldn't go to Oz for a 6 figure salary.

Seriously, it depends a bit on how much you like your friends and family here. You can get across the Atlantic in five hours for the price of a full price second class return train ticket from Leeds to London. People will be interested to come and visit you and you'll not mind making occasional trips back.

Go to Australia and everyone will make all sorts of promises to come over and visit, and you will to come back and visit. And then everyone will realise it costs a fortune and wastes 2 days of your life each time you do it and decide not to bother.

= a roundabout way of saying "My GF went to Australia without me and then we sort of drifted apart even though we were trying not to well I was anyway and then she ditched me just before I was due to go out and then she told me she had been shagging another bloke over there and had been as soon as she got off the plane and now I hate her and I hate Australia and I want to kill her but I don't want to go to Australia to do it because I hate the whole country so much because of what she did to me WAHHHHHHHHHHHHH!"

gtvlusso

Wheelspinner wrote:

gtvlusso wrote:

Hi All,

Thanks for the really great feedback. The office is located in Pyrmont - apparently, it overlooks the Harbour bridge and I would be on a fairly high floor level......

I am still in negotiations regarding T & C's /Salary - but some idea of average salary in the area would be great + cost of living? i.e. How much is a pint? Litre of Petrol? Average food bill?

The consensus is leaning towards Sydney, so, fingers crossed that it all goes through. I think that working in the USA, as some posters have already pointed out, may be too much of a culture shock.

Pyrmont is very inner city, and gibes you lots of options for where to live.

Petrol is about $1.50 a litre at moment, pints at pub maybe 4 to 5 depending on beer. But the expensive bit is housing. Somewhere decent with 3 bedrooms within 10 km of Pyrmont will be upwards of 600k to buy or rent will be 700 a week. Bl00dy expensive. TBH, a 6 figure salary is a starting point. Our government thinks families on 150 grand are still not "rich".

Food bills hard to guess, as I am not the most economical shopper!!!! But for 4 people I reckon 250 a week is ballpark.

great info, thanks! I think we will rent for most of the stay and rent out our UK home. I'm am making a 3 year plan as such, see where we go from there.

gabriel959

To me the biggest disadvantage of Australia is the expensive flights (and only bound to get more expensive) plus the travel time.

Civilization is not only the country you were born, just sayin' ;-)

gtvlusso

Rolf F wrote:

I'd prefer the dole queue in the UK!

If forced at gunpoint, it would have to be one of the US options. At least America is interesting in places (though NJ isn't really one of those places) and it's only five hours from civilization. It's only appropriate to go to Oz if you are being transported.

But I'd only go to the States for a fixed term and I wouldn't go to Oz for a 6 figure salary.

Seriously, it depends a bit on how much you like your friends and family here. You can get across the Atlantic in five hours for the price of a full price second class return train ticket from Leeds to London. People will be interested to come and visit you and you'll not mind making occasional trips back.

Go to Australia and everyone will make all sorts of promises to come over and visit, and you will to come back and visit. And then everyone will realise it costs a fortune and wastes 2 days of your life each time you do it and decide not to bother.

Interesting and good points.

My relocation package will pay for all costs and the first 6 months rental of an appt + a bonus months salary to settle in.

I have family in Oz and in Canada and both my wife and myself have allot of friends in Oz, so, the move is not without some social network and support in either case.
I will be lucky enough to transport my UK salary, which is not too shabby, this should afford my family a reasonably comfortable lifestyle in Oz or the USA (including healthcare). My wife would be able to practice law in Oz, but not in the USA, which is another factor that may be influential.......i.e. both of us working rather than just me.

You are very correct about the journey time - 25 hours on a plane is no picnic and I am sure this may cause some stress on my parents....

NJ is actually a very interesting place in the USA and is often overlooked; there is an awful lot of history there and a superb beach area at Point Pleasant and Bay Head - very easy access to The Big Apple too.

I am lucky enough to have worked and taken a holiday in Both Sydney and in NJ and I was impressed with both.

I must, once again, thank people on this thread - this is a real decision for my family and getting a few points of view and items that I have not thought about at all into the mix has given me a bit of a wake up call.

Wheelspinner

Flights to UK are dear, and from memory the tip is to buy return tickets from UK to start with. Do NOT buy a ticket starting in Oz and return to UK, much more expensive... I think. And it's a cr@p trip, looooooooooooooong. SYD - BKK - LHR even in the pointy end of the plane is still awful.

If you want to look at rental property, try http://www.realestate.com.auas a start, one of the bigger listings of property here, has decent selection. The area you'd be most likely to end up in is described as "inner west", easiest access to Pyrmont. Lower North Shore also ok, since cycle access across the Harbour Bridge is not too bad, well used. Eastern suburbs is less easy on a bike. Hilly and busy traffic and expensive.

Just beware some suburbs in the inner city look attractive, but the airport flight path goes overhead at low altitude... and Sydney airport is 80 planes an hour at peak. Leichhardt, Stanmore, Marrickville can be very noisy in parts. You can probably Google the air traffic patterns, give you a good idea what to avoid.