bike for hilly commuting and touring

leeds-lass

As my Kona Dew Plus has just been nicked, I'm in the market for a new bike. Ideally I'd rather spend £500 as opposed to £1000. I want something that can take a rear rack and, as I commute right through the winter, I also want disc brakes, having found rims not responsive enough in the wet.
My route to work is uphill all the way and a 14 mile round trip. I also want to be able to do long day rides and light touring in the Yorkshire dales, so the right gears will be important for hill climbing. I'm not bothered about being able to bomb down the other side.
I've always rode flat bar bikes, but am willing to consider drops, but nothing with a very aggressive position.
My employer has said the bike to work scheme is not an option
I'm female 5' 6" and around 9kgs
I will admit I don't know my deore from my nexus and am especially confused by the various gear rations! So would appreciate some input on the relative pros and cons of the bikes I've been looking at. All suggestions gratefully received.

They are:

Giant Seek 1 £477 http://www.wiggle.co.uk/giant-seek-1-20 ... Matt_Black

Marin Lombard Cyclocross £549.99 http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... _Bike_2011

Cube Nature Pro £700 http://www.bike-discount.de/shop/a54998 ... html?lg=en

Genesis CDF £749.99 http://chasewatercycle.co.uk/shop/artic ... oix-De-Fer)-2012-Cyclocross-Bike-%C2%A3749.99.html?pse=coa

Whyte Kings Cross £798.99 http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/produ ... _2012_Bike

Ridgeback Cerium £849.99 http://www.cyclesense.co.uk/m1b174s6p12 ... S_GB/33848

CUBE Touring Pro £865 http://www.onyerbikeonline.com/m7b28s21 ... RS_GB/5107

rolf_f

I would recommend the drop bars - even if you aren't a speed freek it does help with those Leeds headwinds!

I'd discount the Cube as it has a suspension fork - extra weight, cost and maintenance for no real benefit on the road. But Cube are good so maybe other options that are better.
I like the Genesis.
The Whyte looks oddly stretched in the pic but that might be just the pic!
The mudguards on the Ridgeback save you fitting them yourself (essential for winter commuting)
The Cube is also contaminated by a suspension fork.

Here's another option - Specialized Tricross Disc http://www.dalescycles.com/index.php?op ... edium=base. A lot of folk here seem to recommend the Tricross.

Best approach is to try to test ride them - fit matters more than any spec subtleties. You will find the drops feel a bit twitchy to start with but you'll get used to that. And then you'll appreciate the narrower gaps you can squeeze through!

I wouldn't worry too much about gears - you'll likely end up with something with a compact twin front gear and a fairly standard set of gears at the back. You could get a triple up front but most people prefer a double and you don't get that much of a gearing advantage from the triple anyway. Have you been riding in the Dales yet? I daresay you know what some of the climbs are like!

Whereabouts do you work? I work in central Leeds and homeward for me is the uphill all the way! And I usually seem to get headwinds in both directions......

9kgs - you need to put some weight on girl!

cjcp

For long rides, I prefer drop-bars over flat-bars for the variety of hand positions offered, although you could put bar ends on the latter.

I'd go with disc brakes for the braking power offered with the extra pannier weight, particularly in the wet. The Genesis is nice.

team47b

Always make sure you are heavier than your bike

Was the missing number before or after?

Sorry to avoid answering your questions, I like a flat bar hybrid bike (I have a Ridgeback) for round town short trips etc, but longer journeys and definitely ones with hills I would use a drop bar road bike (I have a Cube), I actually enjoy hills now.

jejv

leeds-lass wrote:

As my Kona Dew Plus has just been nicked, I'm in the market for a new bike. Ideally I'd rather spend £500 as opposed to £1000. I want something that can take a rear rack

leeds-lass wrote:

and, as I commute right through the winter, I also want disc brakes, having found rims not responsive enough in the wet.

Sure, but V-brakes should be fine - maybe you needed better pads.

leeds-lass wrote:

My route to work is uphill all the way and a 14 mile round trip. I also want to be able to do long day rides and light touring in the Yorkshire dales, so the right gears will be important for hill climbing. I'm not bothered about being able to bomb down the other side.

leeds-lass wrote:

I've always rode flat bar bikes, but am willing to consider drops, but nothing with a very aggressive position.

Drop bars should be more comfortable - if they are set up to suit you. This is likely to involve experimenting with different length/angle handlebar stems, which a good bike shop will help you with. Simple to do yourself, but seek advice first, as there are gotchas.
Strictly, it is possible to get an "on the hoods" or "on the drops" position without drop bars, but that's "some assembly required".

leeds-lass wrote:

I'm 5' 6" and around 9kgs

Might consider cranks a little shorter than the normal 170mm, but that's a fine point.

leeds-lass wrote:

I will admit I don't know my deore from my nexus and am especially confused by the various gear rations!

Since you are concerned about gearing, you do need to understand this better, in order to evaluate the choices in a sensible way. Some of the bikes that you are considering have much higher bottom gears than you have at present. So the hills might be interesting. Your Kona Dew had a low-ish (just -ish) low gear, and a fairly silly (high) top gear - this is typical for "hybrids" that aren't flat-bar road bikes. I'd also say the gears were rather jumpy (big gaps), if I understand right.
I guess your Kona dew had 48-38-28 at the front, and 11-13-15-17-20-23-26-34 at the back, with 35mm tyres ("35-622", "700-35C").
You need to put these numbers into a gear calculator such as :
http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/
Or:
http://home.earthlink.net/~mike.sherman/shift.html
On the sheldon brown site, choose "gear inches" as units. "gear inches" are the units most likely to make sense to people in the UK.

Then you can look at what gears you actually used on the Kona, and compare with the gears on the other bikes.

Rolf F wrote:

I wouldn't worry too much about gears - you'll likely end up with something with a compact twin front gear and a fairly standard set of gears at the back. You could get a triple up front but most people prefer a double and you don't get that much of a gearing advantage from the triple anyway. Have you been riding in the Dales yet? I daresay you know what some of the climbs are like!

It should be said that Rolf F is rather good at hills.

Roadies usually dismiss triples, partly because off-the-shelf road triples typical have little more (~10%) range of gears than a "compact double" . E.g. 50-39-30 vs. 50-34. But it is entirely possible to fit - say - a road 46-36-24 chainset, which does give usefully lower low gears. Wider gears at the front can mean closer gears at the back.
For example http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s109p3

Unfortunately, with off-the shelf bikes, low gears go with straight bars, and drop bars (particularly drop bars with integrated brake/shift levers) go with high gears. This is because straight-bar bikes tend to use MTB cogs at the front, and drop bar bikes use road cogs at the front, and the two are not entirely compatible.

It is possible to combine low gears with drop bars, but it usually involves compromises, such as bar-end shifters:
http://www.hewittbikefitting.co.uk/misc ... fications/

rolf_f

jejv wrote:

It should be said that Rolf F is rather good at hills.

Roadies usually dismiss triples, partly because off-the-shelf road triples typical have little more (~10%) range of gears than a "compact double" . E.g. 50-39-30 vs. 50-34. But it is entirely possible to fit - say - a road 46-36-24 chainset, which does give usefully lower low gears. Wider gears at the front can mean closer gears at the back.
For example http://www.spacycles.co.uk/products.php?plid=m2b0s109p3

Lol - that may have come out wrong! Anyway, I'd agree on the touring triple setup. My old Dawes has 48-38-28 front and 12-28 rear so the low gear is 28-28; 1 to 1. That's pretty soft.

I never use the inner ring on the commute but it can be handy on bigger rides but it just depends on what you think you can do. A standard compact with a 12-28 cassette is still pretty low geared. A good old fashioned touring bike is a sensible option here - it has the gears for the bigger trips, is comfortable over distance and has the mudguards and rack that are as useful for commuting as touring. eg the modern Dawes Horizon - here's a bargain one if the size fits - http://www.discountcyclesdirect.co.uk/p ... ts_id=9404. Even easier gears than mine; 28-32

@ Leeds-lass. The Dales bit depends on where in the Dales you are going. South of Wensleydale there are usually grim climbs and less grim alternatives. Moving into Wensleydale and Swaledale, you get some of the most interesting climbs in the country and little choice but more of the same! The triple might be worth a look if that is where you are headed.

leeds-lass

wow, thanks for your detailed replies. I'll have to set aside a long lunch hour to digest the info. That Dawes Horizon certainly does look like a bargain! I hadn't spotted it.

leeds-lass

I've accidentally posted another question further up the board, as last time I looked, this original post had disappeared off the bottom. Glad to see it's back up.

leeds-lass

@ roll-f I gave my weight as 9kgs? More like 60kgs. Am thinking so much about bikes, I think I'm the same weight.
I live in Hunslet and commute to Seacroft via the bike paths round the back of East End Park and Wyke Valley, after having been knocked off on the direct route up York Road. I reckon my commute has the headwind both ways too. I'm uphill on the way to Seacroft, then on the way down, it seems like the wind is always against me when I'm heading west in the evening. Even the downs feel like ups. Is it my imagination or is Leeds windier than average?

The first time I went cycling in the Dales, I went from Settle, up to Ingleton, then across to High Bentham and down to Slaidburn and back to Settle, a couple of years ago in March. I was on a Ridgeback Comet that I'd bought for £250. I got round, but had to push the bike at one point. I'm a bit fitter now, and have my eyes set on a better bike too. I've done a few more trips, including Kirkby Stephen to Settle, which was tough, especially the stretch from Garsdale head to Dent, but the drop into Dent was spectacular.

I have discounted the Cube for the same reasons you gave.
I've ridden the Whyte Portobello and did like it a lot.

Rolf F wrote:

I would recommend the drop bars - even if you aren't a speed freek it does help with those Leeds headwinds!

I'd discount the Cube as it has a suspension fork - extra weight, cost and maintenance for no real benefit on the road. But Cube are good so maybe other options that are better.
I like the Genesis.
The Whyte looks oddly stretched in the pic but that might be just the pic!
The mudguards on the Ridgeback save you fitting them yourself (essential for winter commuting)
The Cube is also contaminated by a suspension fork.

Here's another option - Specialized Tricross Disc http://www.dalescycles.com/index.php?op ... edium=base. A lot of folk here seem to recommend the Tricross.

Best approach is to try to test ride them - fit matters more than any spec subtleties. You will find the drops feel a bit twitchy to start with but you'll get used to that. And then you'll appreciate the narrower gaps you can squeeze through!

I wouldn't worry too much about gears - you'll likely end up with something with a compact twin front gear and a fairly standard set of gears at the back. You could get a triple up front but most people prefer a double and you don't get that much of a gearing advantage from the triple anyway. Have you been riding in the Dales yet? I daresay you know what some of the climbs are like!

Whereabouts do you work? I work in central Leeds and homeward for me is the uphill all the way! And I usually seem to get headwinds in both directions......

9kgs - you need to put some weight on girl!

leeds-lass

sadly to Ribble won't take fat tyres it seems, which is not good for the winter.
Having taken into account recommendations re the drops, and feeling that I should really grow up and get drops, I've pretty much decided to go for this unless anyone can give me a good reason not to. You've got til tonight to make me think again, otherwise the credit card is coming out...

http://www.southwatercycles.com/m1b4s21 ... /ZOOM46716

apologies for the double posing in 2 discussions

jejv

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/nor ... e-ec031685
?
Cross, Disks, triple,...

leeds-lass

It's certainly exactly what I'm looking for, alas I can't stretch to that amount of cash.

jejv wrote:

http://www.evanscycles.com/products/norco/ccx-2-triple-2012-cyclocross-bike-ec031685
?
Cross, Disks, triple,...

leeds-lass

Am having second thoughts re the Ridgeback Cerium. Asked a mate who knows, and he replied " the bb5 brakes...I've had a set on the front running on 180 disc and I wasn't impressed, also the 2300 is low range kit...you can get bikes for 450 with that kit!"

leeds-lass

I am now definitely a complete nerd. I've made a spreadsheet. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... mWWc#gid=0

rolf_f

leeds-lass wrote:

Am having second thoughts re the Ridgeback Cerium. Asked a mate who knows, and he replied " the bb5 brakes...I've had a set on the front running on 180 disc and I wasn't impressed, also the 2300 is low range kit...you can get bikes for 450 with that kit!"

I had Avid hydraulic disks on my MTB - hated them. Different to the bb5 but those might have the same tight clearance my discs had on the pads. It resulted in endless squealing which could only be stopped by regularly pulling the brake. Since the squealing generally occurred on climbs, you can guess how much fun this was. The Shimano brakes I now have have more clearance.

Re tyres - on my Ribble I use Crud Roadracer mudguards. These only fit (on my bike) 23mm tyres and I use the bike nearly all year round. I don't think there is that much to worry about with narrow tyres. Really the only difference is that the pressures are higher so the ride isn't as soft.

leeds-lass wrote:

I live in Hunslet and commute to Seacroft via the bike paths round the back of East End Park and Wyke Valley, after having been knocked off on the direct route up York Road. I reckon my commute has the headwind both ways too. I'm uphill on the way to Seacroft, then on the way down, it seems like the wind is always against me when I'm heading west in the evening. Even the downs feel like ups. Is it my imagination or is Leeds windier than average?

The first time I went cycling in the Dales, I went from Settle, up to Ingleton, then across to High Bentham and down to Slaidburn and back to Settle, a couple of years ago in March. I was on a Ridgeback Comet that I'd bought for £250. I got round, but had to push the bike at one point. I'm a bit fitter now, and have my eyes set on a better bike too. I've done a few more trips, including Kirkby Stephen to Settle, which was tough, especially the stretch from Garsdale head to Dent, but the drop into Dent was spectacular.

It isn't just me then! I do Calverley to Leeds city centre so sort of the same way and the same winds!

I've done that High Bentham climb a couple of times in the other direction (Cross of Greet - it's a lovely climb from Slaidburn) - I have done North to South the next one to the East - Keasden Road; a right old slog. That was a ride from to Settle , Ribblesdale and Clapham. As for that Garsdale Head route (The Coal Road) I did that many years ago the other way on a borrowed 3 speed sit up and beg bike - I pushed it up from Dentdale with my whole body feeling almost parallel to the ground and then hurtled down to Garsdale at a good 30mph with my hands locked onto the brakes as hard as possible with no decelleration! I think I came back to Dent via Sedburgh.

I think you'll be OK with a compact double and the option of buying a 12-28 cassette at a later date if need be.

flimflam_machine

Another option for a tourer:

Revolution Country Explorer '12 - £674.99

Could be just the ticket as it's designed for exactly this type of work. It's got a steel frame so should be fairly comfy. It's got good disc brakes, nice low gears for the hills, short cranks (might suit someone of your height) and comes with rack and mudguards fitted (worth factoring into the cost).

leeds-lass

OK, the search is over. I've decided on the Whyte Portobello. What a relief to finally have decided! I test rode the Courier, and it's a nice bike, but not light at all. Edinburgh Bicycle Cooperative were brilliant and gave me the honest advice the online Whyte would be more suitable for my needs. Bought a bike carrier off them to salve my conscience after getting so much advice from them. Thanks all for your advice and input everybody. The suggestions were really useful.

I'll let you know how I get on with the Whyte.