Ksyrium SL or Elites?

dieselgeezer

Just wondering if the SL's are worth the extra £. Would I notice the difference between the two? Is it the same rim on both & just a change of hub & spokes? Questions, questions!

cubicboy

I have both and can't tell the difference. The SLs are better looking in that they have the red anodised hubs... mmm. I think that the weight difference is circa 85g across the two wheels and £300!

tonye_n

Different hubs and spokes.
Alu spokes on the SL, steel spokes on the elites.
Rear hub on the SL has carbon shell (and maybe some titanium in other parts of the hub).
Hub shell of the elites are alu.
That's where the weight saving is. The rims are the same.

I think the alu spokes make the SL stiffer, harsher ride, though the elites are plenty stiff enough.

Bar Shaker

I have Elites and the spokes are definitely not steel.

I know this because I took my speed sensor magnet off my wheel and put it on my friend's bike which does have steel spokes. I went backwards and forwards checking as the pull to his spokes surprised me when the magnet got close.

There is no magnetic pull on Elites.

tonye_n

Bar Shaker wrote:

I have Elites and the spokes are definitely not steel.

I know this because I took my speed sensor magnet off my wheel and put it on my friend's bike which does have steel spokes. I went backwards and forwards checking as the pull to his spokes surprised me when the magnet got close.

There is no magnetic pull on Elites.

The black anodising on the spokes may be affecting the magnet.
This is the one slight problem with online forum. People spouting anecdotal suppositions as fact.
Be sure of your facts matey. Check here:
http://www.mavic.com/en/product/wheels/ ... rium-Elite

The spokes are listed as stainless steel. I've got two sets (2010 & 2012), both have steel spokes and exactly the same spec throughout except the colour way.

tonye_n

Go here and click on the 'features' tab.
http://www.mavic.com/en/product/wheels/ ... rium-Elite
This is what it says:
RIMS
Material: Maxtal
Color: Double anodization, black rim, silver ISM
Height: front 22 mm, rear 25 mm asymmetrical
Joint: SUP
Drilling: Fore
Brake track: UB Control
Weight reduction: ISM
Valve hole diameter: 6.5 mm
Tyre: clincher
ETRTO size: 622x15C
Recommended tyre sizes: 19 to 32 mm
SPOKES
Material: stainless steel
Shape: straight pull, bladed
Color: black
Nipples: integrated M7 aluminum with dry thread lock
Count: front 18, rear 20
Lacing: front radial, rear Isopulse
HUBS
Front and rear bodies: aluminum
Color: black
Front and rear axle material: aluminum
QRM+
FTS-L steel
VERSIONS
Clincher M10
Clincher ED11
DELIVERED WITH
BR301 quick releases
Bearing adjustment tool (rear wheel)
Spoke wrench (rear wheel)
Spoke holder for aerodynamic spokes (rear wheel)
User guide

rpd_steve

The Elites DO have STAINLESS steel spokes. I have 2 sets and a degree in materials engineering...

The 'Maxtal' is just a BS Mavic name for 254SMO stainless steel. Cheap cheap spokes are plain carbon steal with a coating. Plain steel is highly magnetic but stainless steel will only provide about 1/4 the magnetic pull with permernant magnets.

Anyway as I am a sad sod and have access to a material test lab, I tested both of these wheelsets for stifness.

The SLs are about 6% stiffer lateraly than the Elites, which is not perciveable. For referance the Elites are 35% stiffer than the Equipes, and 40% than the Aksiums.

The one differance you will notice is the SLs will transmit much more 'buzz'. Thats because stainless steel has quite resonable damping properties in the 15-60 Hz range - which is what humans are sensative to. Aluminium on the other hand has almost no internal damping and sends it all to your ass.

I cannot find any real advantage of the Sls other than a small weight saving - 85g. They transmit more buzz, are no stiffer, the spokes fatuige much worse (Al has almost no fatuige limit, and WILL fail one day, though mabay not in your lifetime, SS however has a quite distint fatuige limit so if loads are kept at bay will never degrade or fail).

And you'd guessed it, I choose the Elites on my steed.

Beatmaker

Impressive stuff Steve, your feedback is slightly more insightful than the usual "I had a ride on my mates in the car park" experience.

davelakers

RPD Steve wrote:

The Elites DO have STAINLESS steel spokes. I have 2 sets and a degree in materials engineering...

The 'Maxtal' is just a BS Mavic name for 254SMO stainless steel. Cheap cheap spokes are plain carbon steal with a coating. Plain steel is highly magnetic but stainless steel will only provide about 1/4 the magnetic pull with permernant magnets.

Anyway as I am a sad sod and have access to a material test lab, I tested both of these wheelsets for stifness.

The SLs are about 6% stiffer lateraly than the Elites, which is not perciveable. For referance the Elites are 35% stiffer than the Equipes, and 40% than the Aksiums.

The one differance you will notice is the SLs will transmit much more 'buzz'. Thats because stainless steel has quite resonable damping properties in the 15-60 Hz range - which is what humans are sensative to. Aluminium on the other hand has almost no internal damping and sends it all to your ass.

I cannot find any real advantage of the Sls other than a small weight saving - 85g. They transmit more buzz, are no stiffer, the spokes fatuige much worse (Al has almost no fatuige limit, and WILL fail one day, though mabay not in your lifetime, SS however has a quite distint fatuige limit so if loads are kept at bay will never degrade or fail).

And you'd guessed it, I choose the Elites on my steed.

Now that is an answer!!

Squillinossett

RPD Steve wrote:

The Elites DO have STAINLESS steel spokes. I have 2 sets and a degree in materials engineering...

The 'Maxtal' is just a BS Mavic name for 254SMO stainless steel. Cheap cheap spokes are plain carbon steal with a coating. Plain steel is highly magnetic but stainless steel will only provide about 1/4 the magnetic pull with permernant magnets.

Anyway as I am a sad sod and have access to a material test lab, I tested both of these wheelsets for stifness.

The SLs are about 6% stiffer lateraly than the Elites, which is not perciveable. For referance the Elites are 35% stiffer than the Equipes, and 40% than the Aksiums.

The one differance you will notice is the SLs will transmit much more 'buzz'. Thats because stainless steel has quite resonable damping properties in the 15-60 Hz range - which is what humans are sensative to. Aluminium on the other hand has almost no internal damping and sends it all to your ass.

I cannot find any real advantage of the Sls other than a small weight saving - 85g. They transmit more buzz, are no stiffer, the spokes fatuige much worse (Al has almost no fatuige limit, and WILL fail one day, though mabay not in your lifetime, SS however has a quite distint fatuige limit so if loads are kept at bay will never degrade or fail).

And you'd guessed it, I choose the Elites on my steed.

But the SL's have carbon innit..

rpd_steve

Nope... SLs have Aluminium aloy and only carbon hub shells. 8)

Sorry guys, my area of intrest/sadness

richard36

RPD Steve - out of interest would you still go for the Elites if you were buying a bike and for the same price you could either have the SL's or the Elites? The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of buying a bike from Rose and you get the option of the SL's or the Elites (and a number of others) for the same price.

Cheers

tonye_n

Richard36 wrote:

RPD Steve - out of interest would you still go for the Elites if you were buying a bike and for the same price you could either have the SL's or the Elites? The reason I ask is that I'm thinking of buying a bike from Rose and you get the option of the SL's or the Elites (and a number of others) for the same price.

Cheers

What for exactly the same frame/fork, grouppo, contact points you get the same price with ksyrium elite/SL ?
Never ever seen or heard of that before.

swagger

Just a pointer on spoke materials.... Stainless steel can be both magnetic and non magnetic.
It depends on the quantity of Nickel that is in the alloy mix, more nickel; less magnetism.
Generally if its a high quality stainless steel it'll have a higher level of nickel, its the nickel that gives it its resistance to corrosion.

I have a 7 year old set of Sl's that have been sweet as a nut and never needed any work..... they were alot cheaper then! about £400 if i recall.

Joe

napoleond

I had a quick ride on my mates' SLs in the car park, didn't notice any difference to my Elites.

In all seriousness, I've owned shedloads of different wheels and demo'd a few more, ranging from sh!tty Sora handbuilts to Zipp 606 tub combo, Campag Bora Ultra 2 and lots in between.

The Elites are the best wheel/£ out there IMO.

ajb72

RPD Steve wrote:

Nope... SLs have Aluminium aloy and only carbon hub shells. 8)

Sorry guys, my area of intrest/sadness

Steve, you are my hero! I wish you could test my Fulcrum Zero's v Mavic's etc - I love the data!!

Canny Jock

NapoleonD wrote:

I had a quick ride on my mates' SLs in the car park, didn't notice any difference to my Elites.

In all seriousness, I've owned shedloads of different wheels and demo'd a few more, ranging from sh!tty Sora handbuilts to Zipp 606 tub combo, Campag Bora Ultra 2 and lots in between.

The Elites are the best wheel/£ out there IMO.

Have you ridden Campag Neutrons? They are my favourites for the money (and steel spokes again) but wonder how they compare to the Elites which I haven't ridden.

napoleond

The only Campag wheels I've owned we're bora ultra twos.