The hypocrisy of Dave (warning contains traces of Cameron)

tim_wand

This week Dave has spoken about the situation in Syria and how he sees it.

He has stated Syria needs Transition from the top to avoid a bloody civil war (Thought thats exactly what had been going on for the last 12 months)

Dave speaks of a nation that needs, Law and order, Education and free democratic elections to achieve stability.

Hes not exactly done well on these points at home.

Law and order:

a criminal justice system which pays more attention to the "human rights of offenders" than the impact on their victims

Riots and unrest and allegations or rascism against the largest metropolitan police authority in the country.

Colusion with media into the unlawful intrusion of peoples private lives, extending into cronyism to curry favour with said same organisations.

Financial corruption and deception from politicians in misappropriating claims against public funds.


Education:

Record levels of youth unemployment and lack of training.

The largest national union of teachers prepared to strike in order to prevent Government turning schools into academies and thus lessening Government financial and directional responsibilites and creating a two tier system yet again.

49% of adults reasoned to have low levels of numeracy skills


Democratic Process.

Did you or anyone else vote for this coalition Government

Refusual of the right to referendums on areas of public concern.


Yer Dave our democratic model should act as a shining beacon to Syria, We are all in it together. Maybe there needs to be a transition from the top closer to home. I d lay money on changes to inheritance tax before Sam Cams folks shift their mortal coil.

Mr Cameron should pay more attention to Home affairs rather than distracting the issue by trying to be the world statesman, we got enough of that with the sh*t bag Blair and look what happened at home while he was off show boating.

team47b

It's good to read something that brings together the government spiel and its affect so succinctly.

Can anyone see this differently?

Tom Dean

tim wand wrote:

a criminal justice system which pays more attention to the "human rights of offenders" than the impact on their victims

Nonsense

"Human rights" in inverted commas. Oh dear. I'm sure the likes of Assad would agree.

tim_wand

12 Years working as a prison officer, I have seen colleagues loose their jobs because they would not address Paedophiles as Mr.

I have worked in establishments which have saunas and steam rooms for sex offenders, but the staff who are made to take mandotary fitness tests every year are banned from using the gym on their lunch times.

I had a principal officer who received £7000 pounds compensation for having his throat cut whilst being taken hostage by a prisoner during a riot, The same prisoner received £112,000 compensation from Humberside county council for being placed in the wrong care home as a child.

I have been personal officer to several asylum seekers who comitted rapes in the UK to prevent their deportation back to country of origin.

I have seen prisoners paid a bonus (Twice their normal entitlement of pay) for behaving over the Christmas period (this was paid in advance) we subsequently had a concerted indiscipline incident (riot) when a whole wing of prisoners refused to return to their cells on New Years eve resulting in staff working an additonal 12 hours after 12 hours already done, no staff recieved any payment for this period , no pay was taken back from offenders.

I could go on and on and on, luckily I left the job because once my own daughter was born I could no longer tolerate the level of appeasement which was shown to offenders.

No we are not and should not be Syria, but neither should we preach our model to the world because IMO that sure aint working either.

CambsNewbie

Have the coalition carried out any changes to the criminal justice system since they came into power?

The Met and other forces had racist officers long before the coalition came in and will continue to do so long after.

So labour weren't sniffing round Murdoch like they were a bitch in heat?

Maybe if labour had left a few quid in the coffers instead of flippant notes 'the money's all gone' they might be able to afford youth unemployment programmes.

Teachers are always threatening to strike about something or another. Are they ever happy?

The 49% of adults with low numeracy skills did their skills suddenly vanish as Dave entered number 10?

Got to admit you are right, we didn't vote for a coalition. But it's not like we havent had them before.

Aren't referendums expensive to hold and the arguments get drowned out by what the Daily Mail and Sun want?

Btw I'm not saying this as a rapid Tory, but more to say you can spin 'facts' anyway you want..

BUT I do agree we should sort our own country out first before we try 'exporting' and imposing western style democracy on countries which have no experience of it or real desire for it.

Frank the tank

Agree with your sentiments Tim, but, alas he's not the first or dare say last PM that spouts off about the inadequasies of other regimes abroad when all in his own backyard is far from ideal.

Yes, I'd live in this country over any other in the world but it really is time the politicians realised GB no longer has the right/authority/ability to be the worlds policeman and we ought to keep our noses out of others' business.

Jez mon

Fundamentally, the coalition seem little different to the labour government. People are just happier to bash the tories.

tim_wand

Kenneth Clarke (conservative) Secretary of State for Justice , my local MP.

As the former Branch secretary of the POA (Prison Officers Association) union at my old establishment within his constituency I have had many dealings with the Rt Hon Mr Clarke.

He used to like to use our establishment (the biggest residential unit in Europe for sex offenders) as a little bit of a piloting ground for some of his parties theories on justice.

Needless to say whenever it was necessary to point out that we were acting outside of Prison Service Guidelines and Instructions, the senior management team were "piloting something" although it was never said, from Mr Clarkes in tray.

Im not blaming the Tories directly , I m no raving socialist despite my Union history, I just think we need to focus on issues closer to home before we go off trying to sort the problems of this world.

It does strike me as paradoxical though, that we always back regime change (transition from the top) in Persia and North African states which have a predominantly Shia Muslim states , but say little about Human rights abuse in predominantly Sunni Muslim states (I.E Bahrain) for fear of offending the Saudis.

I did 9 years in the Army Including Op Granby 1990-91.
Twelve years in the Prison service under both Labour and Coalition Governments.

IMO and IME we are in no positon to lecture to the World on anything, Look at the mess (sh*t I contributed to it) We have left in Iraq and will ultimately leave in Afghanistan ( massive apologies to those who have lost their lives trying) Why dont we just concentrate on getting our own house in order.

CambsNewbie

Frank the tank wrote:

Agree with your sentiments Tim, but, alas he's not the first or dare say last PM that spouts off about the inadequasies of other regimes abroad when all in his own backyard is far from ideal.

Yes, I'd live in this country over any other in the world but it really is time the politicians realised GB no longer has the right/authority/ability to be the worlds policeman and we ought to keep our noses out of others' business.

Definately agree with you. I'm actually looking forward to the rise of India, Brazil, Indonesia etc and them being able to contribute more to the UN and we can start to reduce our role and sort our own deep-seated social and economic issues out.

MickTup

+1 Why dont we just concentrate on getting our own house in order.

Tom Dean

With respect to your experience Tim Wand, the scale of the shortcomings of the british prison system is hardly comparable with the situation in Syria, where people are being murdered in the streets for protesting. Should the govt ACT on every minor problem in the UK before SPEAKING out about atrocities committed abroad?

CambsNewbie wrote:

BUT I do agree we should sort our own country out first before we try 'exporting' and imposing western style democracy on countries which have no experience of it or real desire for it.

Exactly which countries have no desire for democracy?

tim_wand

Tom Dean wrote:

With respect to your experience Tim Wand, the scale of the shortcomings of the british prison system is hardly comparable with the situation in Syria, where people are being murdered in the streets for protesting. Should the govt ACT on every minor problem in the UK before SPEAKING out about atrocities committed abroad?

CambsNewbie wrote:

BUT I do agree we should sort our own country out first before we try 'exporting' and imposing western style democracy on countries which have no experience of it or real desire for it.

Exactly which countries have no desire for democracy?

Tom your 100% Right Hitler would have succeded if Chamberlain and Churchill had spent all there time worrying about double dip recessions in the British economy in the late 1930's.

But aint it funny (or just a case of history repeating) how often Political leaders use foreign affairs to mask concerns on the home front and raise their status.

And exactly what criteria do we use to determine interventions and comment. Because I m sorry but the only differentation I see between where we intervene and where we dont is that of Economic interest ( usually dictated to by US or Saudi political and economic interests) and nothing Morally Humanistic at all.

As previous posters have said we are no longer the Political or Economic power house we were and for a myriad of reasons we should concentrate our Service personnels lives. resources and rhetoric to solving our own problems.

Democracy is an amazing thing to aspire to. But regretfully it will remain an aspiration in many states were divides rising from religion and self-interest have predominated for millenia. I think we've done our bit and I m not even sure anymore that we achieve any good (Just hostility) in continuing to try and do so.

Jez mon

I get the feeling that some of China lacks a desire for western style democracy, and I think most of the indiginous population of say, the emirate of Dubai are happy with their situation atm (admittedly, this is probably a unique case amongst the region)

It's all to do with your life experiences and those of your parents/teachers/peers/etc. If your life is comfortable under a despot why would you especially want change.

finchy

CambsNewbie wrote:

Teachers are always threatening to strike about something or another.

This isn't true.

Tom Dean

I'm no fan of Cameron but I think he's in a no-win here: a perfectly reasonable statement on Syria, no suggestion of committing resources and he's accused of diverting attention from home affairs.

usedtobefast

As I see it the problem with the political system in this country is that everyone in it seems to be under a misguided belief that we still have major power to wield in the global community based on some out dated victorian empirest view of our position on the world stage.

We need the people that lead us, on all sides of the political spectrum, to accept we're no longer the world power house we once were and internal problems need to be solved before giving time and resources out globally.

Tom Dean

So are we saying only those countries with 'all their internal problems solved' should even comment, and the rest of us can turn a blind eye to the murder of thousands of innocent people?

Frank the tank

Tom Dean wrote:

So are we saying only those countries with 'all their internal problems solved' should even comment, and the rest of us can turn a blind eye to the murder of thousands of innocent people?

DC like anyone else is entitled to his say, but when you're the PM it tends to carry a bit more weight and get a lot more press coverage than a bunch of cycling enthusiasts spouting off on a forum.

I don't think there is a single country in the world that hasn't got internal issues (you can't please all the people all the time). But their leaders go go telling others how to sort them out.

shouldbeinbed

tim wand wrote:

Tom your 100% Right Hitler would have succeded if Chamberlain and Churchill had spent all there time worrying about double dip recessions in the British economy in the late 1930's.

But aint it funny (or just a case of history repeating) how often Political leaders use foreign affairs to mask concerns on the home front and raise their status.

Not quite sure of this parallel. Hitler was merily rolling over large parts of Europe, talking about world domination and the 1000 year reich. It was very much a 'home front' problem.

Assad as far as I know is happy with his plot of land and is content to annihilate people largely within his own borders (but I wouldn't want to tread on Turkey's toes, that is what will really spark the others to come in IMO) to keep his grip on it - unspeakable, utterly wrong and needs the international community to stop it as per supporting the rest of the Arab spring movements but not offering the same threat to UK soverignty as Nazism did.