34/25 and 34/28 on 11 % climb
Sunderland Supporter
Posts: 210
I went out today for a couple of hours specifically focussing on hill climbing to try and improve my strength and efficiency. There was another rider who went up the same 1.5 mile , 11 % climb as I did. Im just 5 ft 9 and he looked about 6 ft 2 and owned a bike which was very nice indeed. My crank is 170 mm and his was surely 175 mm. We exchanged pleasantries ( as ye do 
) and he remarked upon the steepness. My lowest rear cog is a 25 and his looked to be in the 28 range , I took it steady, concentrated on my breathing and tried to keep it fluid. Where I was obviously pushing harder to turn the crank, he looked as if he was tip-toeing his way up and the cranks looked as if he was pushing 50 % easier in terms of effort than I was , a lot quicker than I was and going faster than me :oops:
I found myself thinking "is that guy riding a triple , he is making it look so easy compared to me ". My gut instinct tells me it was a double and probably a compact like I was using. If he was using 34/28 , would there be THAT much of a diffference in power required to turn the cranks whilst on 11 %, or would his much longer leg length and obviously more torque be a factor to be taken into consideration ? Gotta say he looked damn good as he made a tough hill look easy to climb.
) and he remarked upon the steepness. My lowest rear cog is a 25 and his looked to be in the 28 range , I took it steady, concentrated on my breathing and tried to keep it fluid. Where I was obviously pushing harder to turn the crank, he looked as if he was tip-toeing his way up and the cranks looked as if he was pushing 50 % easier in terms of effort than I was , a lot quicker than I was and going faster than me :oops:I found myself thinking "is that guy riding a triple , he is making it look so easy compared to me ". My gut instinct tells me it was a double and probably a compact like I was using. If he was using 34/28 , would there be THAT much of a diffference in power required to turn the cranks whilst on 11 %, or would his much longer leg length and obviously more torque be a factor to be taken into consideration ? Gotta say he looked damn good as he made a tough hill look easy to climb.
Unashamed to admit Ive zero time for Tory , Toff, In-bred , ex Public Schoolboys who are flushing our country down the crapper.
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The power required to go a particular speed is completely independant of gearing.
If he's pedalling faster and going the same speed then he's producing smaller forces each revolution, not larger ones.
He simply produces more power than you, and has more appropriate gearing, if you're "struggling" up a climb in the gear you have, you need to find lower gearing.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
Have a look at this LINK0
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If you change your Cassette to an 28 you will go up there as easy as he did.
When I first got my Allez it came with 52/39 and 13-26 I could get up my local hills but it was a grind I had the shop change the cassette to an 11-28 and now I can ride up there much easier.
The size of the other guy doesn't really make any difference compared to your size it's your fitness that matters. When you get fitter you will go up on the 25 but if you want to make life a little easier for yourself on the hills swap the cassette.
It looked easier for him because he was spinning and you were grinding in simple lay man terms which is the only ones I know anyway!
Your comment on he riding a triple is not far off the truth if you change your cassette to say 11-28 or even 11-32 you will have as good as or better gears for the hill than most triples which may have say a 30 25. what you do is divide the front cog by the back cog so 34 divided by 28 = 1.21 30 on a triple divided by 25 = 1.2 so they are almost the same.0 -
In many ways it can help to think of it this way -
lower gear = more spinning = less muscle force = more of a CV type workout = less stress on knees
higher gear = more grinding = more muscle force = more of a muscle building type work = more stress on knees
I am old and fat and have dodgy knees so a 34-32 (SRAM Apex) gearing suits me - I want to build up CV fitness and lose weight without grinding off the last remaining flecks of cartilage on my knee bones!
PS - I have little hope of speed but have almost accepted that 0 -
Sunderland Supporter wrote:I went out today for a couple of hours specifically focussing on hill climbing to try and improve my strength and efficiency. There was another rider who went up the same 1.5 mile , 11 % climb as I did. Im just 5 ft 9 and he looked about 6 ft 2 and owned a bike which was very nice indeed. My crank is 170 mm and his was surely 175 mm. We exchanged pleasantries ( as ye do ) and he remarked upon the steepness. My lowest rear cog is a 25 and his looked to be in the 28 range , I took it steady, concentrated on my breathing and tried to keep it fluid. Where I was obviously pushing harder to turn the crank, he looked as if he was tip-toeing his way up and the cranks looked as if he was pushing 50 % easier in terms of effort than I was , a lot quicker than I was and going faster than me :oops:
I found myself thinking "is that guy riding a triple , he is making it look so easy compared to me ". My gut instinct tells me it was a double and probably a compact like I was using. If he was using 34/28 , would there be THAT much of a diffference in power required to turn the cranks whilst on 11 %, or would his much longer leg length and obviously more torque be a factor to be taken into consideration ? Gotta say he looked damn good as he made a tough hill look easy to climb.
Whatever he's riding - double, triple, quadruple, a million chainrings - he's going faster than you and so is doing more work though he may not be making quite as big a deal of it as you as he is much fitter.
Triples make the climb easier, but at the cost of speed (for a given cadence). If he is going faster than you, it is harder and he is a better climber, regardless of what his setup is.0 -
He probably found it easier because he wasn't wasting half his effort on trying to count the teeth on his cassette.
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thegibdog wrote:He probably found it easier because he wasn't wasting half his effort on trying to count the teeth on his cassette.
+10000
If the OP does not understand the science behind my previous post (many do not), I should be extremely surprised if he can ascertain the number of teeth on a single sprocket in a cassette from one sweaty and exhausted glance.0 -
Actually, having read that, it sounds much harsher than intended. Sorry.
The whole 'triples make things easier' really irritates me though.0 -
thegibdog wrote:He probably found it easier because he wasn't wasting half his effort on trying to count the teeth on his cassette.
I near rode into a bike in front of me because I was admiring a girls arrse and today Im counting teeth on cogs....... Unashamed to admit Ive zero time for Tory , Toff, In-bred , ex Public Schoolboys who are flushing our country down the crapper.0 -
jim453 wrote:thegibdog wrote:He probably found it easier because he wasn't wasting half his effort on trying to count the teeth on his cassette.
+10000
If the OP does not understand the science behind my previous post (many do not), I should be extremely surprised if he can ascertain the number of teeth on a single sprocket in a cassette from one sweaty and exhausted glance.
hey no worrries jimUnashamed to admit Ive zero time for Tory , Toff, In-bred , ex Public Schoolboys who are flushing our country down the crapper.0 -
As others have stated a 34/25 set-up should allow you to pop up an 11% climb with relative ease (given that it will not have been of Alpine length).
Simple fact is that the other guy is probably just fitter and has more cycling miles in his legs (which if this was the case would make it a little surprising that he was even in need of a 28 casette).0 -
I tried a 28 tooth in the North Yorks hills last year. It hurt as much as the 25 tooth, and of course I was going slower. I sold it and now stick to the 11 - 25.
I agree that with a decent level of fitness you shouldn't need more than a 34/25. As one of the pro's once said (Greg Henderson?) with training it doesn't hurt any less, you just go faster.0 -
As above. In my humble experience its better to just get enough miles in the legs so that you can climb better in the 25. Changing to a 28 is just going to help you spin faster/ climb slower. If a rider in front is getting away from you and you want to stay with, all the spinning in the world on a 28 won't get you up to him if he's pushing a harder gear and still getting away.0
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if you have time or inclination you can deeply submerge yourself in this too:
viewtopic.php?f=40042&t=12845520
Laws of physics dictate that to move a mass from a lower to higher point require an energy input; the time taken for that is determined by the power available, which can depend on power source and mechanical means ie gearing.0 -
Having a lower gear doesn't mean you go slower, it means that you have the option of going slower or riding at the same speed but a higher cadence; it's up to the rider to determine how much effort you put in. If you want an example of how a lower gear doesn't equal slower take a look back at some old tour videos of Lance Armstrong vs Jan Ullrich.0
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Yeah, but would I not be right in saying that if your at your lowest gear (as with any other gear) and you get to the point where your cadence is too high and your spinning out, your only going to go as fast as that gear allows you to. The option of 'going slower or riding at the same speed but a higher cadence' is only there to that point. Makes sense to me anyway0
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I hope this doesn't end up like the Monty Python "you were lucky" sketch. FWIW I think you are thinking and analyzing things way too much. No one ever said climbing hills should be easy. If you're not careful you end up like water always wanting to take the path of least resistance. There must come a point when you gear down so much it would be better to walk.
A lot of new cyclists seem to have this idea that the kit will do the job for them. Not that there is anything wrong with wanting all the latest stuff.
Now the history lesson. I know that the hills and roads have not become harder to ride up and on over recent years.
I may be accused of the old rose coloured glasses here but here goes.
50 years ago when I joined my first club, club runs used to be regularly anything up to a 100 miles very often from leicestershire up into the Derbyshire hills to Buxton and back. In the winter this was on 66" fixed and I can't recall ever walking up any hills. When the geared bike was taken out it had 52/42 cottered chainset and a 5 speed block with 14 to 24 sprockets. This bike was used for racing, touring with saddlebag and general riding to work and back.
Time moves on and we are now in 1999 and I completed one of the longest LeTapes, 129 miles. Day after we rode up the Alp Duez I was on a vitus with 53/39 chainset 12/23 8 speed cassette. Now I have never been a mountain goat but just got on and road up the blooming hills without thinking too much about it. Sorry for rambling on but you get my gist,its the legs that do it.0 -
Skerryman wrote:Yeah, but would I not be right in saying that if your at your lowest gear (as with any other gear) and you get to the point where your cadence is too high and your spinning out, your only going to go as fast as that gear allows you to. The option of 'going slower or riding at the same speed but a higher cadence' is only there to that point. Makes sense to me anyway
Yep - absolutely right. But it works the other way as well. If you are going up a hill, as fast as you can, in a lower cadence than you would like to, then you probably could do with an extra tooth or three.
The lowest gear you need to achive a particular climb at your best performance is down to a combination of your favoured cadence and the gradient of the hill.Faster than a tent.......0 -
I bonked after doing 3500ft of climbing where I hit 22% gradients and I only had my Allez 39/25 gear to hand. I didn't eat admittedly but I certainly wasted too much energy grinding out those hills. I now have a 3new bike with a 34/25 low gear that I know will go up better so I can actually spin the cranks instead of grinding them out.
Sometimes the gear is required BUT it's no substitute for putting the work in.Ribble Stealth/SRAM Force
2007 Specialized Allez (Double) FCN - 30 -
Skerryman wrote:Yeah, but would I not be right in saying that if your at your lowest gear (as with any other gear) and you get to the point where your cadence is too high and your spinning out, your only going to go as fast as that gear allows you to. The option of 'going slower or riding at the same speed but a higher cadence' is only there to that point. Makes sense to me anyway
Erm. Who's going to spin out going up a hill, particularly an 11% one - who are these people who can ride at over 30mph up an 11% hill? And if they do exist why are they posting on road beginners?
Or to put it more simply for you, if your cadence gets to high for your speed / power at 34x28, change to 34x24 or 34x21 and carry on...
I'm pretty certain I can out climb most people on road beginners with my compact, and I also know that for me, I need a compact as I require high cadences, others won't, but just because your personal experience says one thing, doesn't mean you can tell other people about their experiences.Jibbering Sports Stuff: http://jibbering.com/sports/0 -
jibberjim wrote:Skerryman wrote:Yeah, but would I not be right in saying that if your at your lowest gear (as with any other gear) and you get to the point where your cadence is too high and your spinning out, your only going to go as fast as that gear allows you to. The option of 'going slower or riding at the same speed but a higher cadence' is only there to that point. Makes sense to me anyway
Erm. Who's going to spin out going up a hill, particularly an 11% one - who are these people who can ride at over 30mph up an 11% hill? And if they do exist why are they posting on road beginners?
Or to put it more simply for you, if your cadence gets to high for your speed / power at 34x28, change to 34x24 or 34x21 and carry on...
I'm pretty certain I can out climb most people on road beginners with my compact, and I also know that for me, I need a compact as I require high cadences, others won't, but just because your personal experience says one thing, doesn't mean you can tell other people about their experiences.
Erm.... Not once did I say that I spin out on an 11% gradient. If you couldn't pick up that it was a hypothetical scenario to attempt to get a point across then you shouldn't be allowed on the internet. Nor did I attempt to tell anybody else about their experience, cos that would be impossible as its 'their' experience. So lose the attitude there buddy, I'm sure you're this confrontational to everyone you come across in real life, talk about jumping the gun.0 -
cadseen wrote:I think both these geers are much to small for a 11% climb.
Im fully in agreeance that 34/25 is quite tough enough for an 11 % gradient , especially like the 1.5 miles hill in the original post. What gets on my goat in internet world is the hey id climb that pussy gradient in 53/11 whilst spinning out that you can find on every cycling forum on the worldwide web and usually from someone who couldnt spin a spinning top. Anyone guffawing and saying 11 %, id race up that on two flat tyres is , imo, an idiot and should learn to keep their ar5e shut and do us all a favour.Unashamed to admit Ive zero time for Tory , Toff, In-bred , ex Public Schoolboys who are flushing our country down the crapper.0 -
Sunderland Supporter wrote:cadseen wrote:I think both these geers are much to small for a 11% climb.
Im fully in agreeance that 34/25 is quite tough enough for an 11 % gradient , especially like the 1.5 miles hill in the original post. What gets on my goat in internet world is the hey id climb that pussy gradient in 53/11 whilst spinning out that you can find on every cycling forum on the worldwide web and usually from someone who couldnt spin a spinning top. Anyone guffawing and saying 11 %, id race up that on two flat tyres is , imo, an idiot and should learn to keep their ar5e shut and do us all a favour.
Not sure if your referring to my posts above, as it definitely wasn't my intention to come across that way if you are.0 -
wasnt referring to you at all skerry dude, just cheesed off reading so much bravado and talking thru the ar5e from other outletsUnashamed to admit Ive zero time for Tory , Toff, In-bred , ex Public Schoolboys who are flushing our country down the crapper.0
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Sunderland Supporter wrote:wasnt referring to you at all skerry dude, just cheesed off reading so much bravado and talking thru the ar5e from other outlets
Cheers for that, thought I'd inadvertently turned into an ar$e without realising it0 -
At the end of the day the only thing that gets you better at climbing is doing lots of it so miles in the legs in right but miles on hills. I used to have to walk up the steeper hills 4 yeras ago when I started MTBing. Once I finally cracked a fairly steep hill there was no turning back, I went from MTB granny ring to big ringing it up the hill within 18 months.
Then I got a hybrid which had 50/34 11-32 I never reliased just how much easier those gears made climbing until I got my Spesh 52/39 13-26 I could get up that hill but boy was it a grind. So I went for the 11-28 cassette. I felt grinding that hill was never going to get me better at it the 28 makes it easier and on a good day I can use the 24.
I not claiming to be great at climbing but I am vastly improved due to trageting hills as I deemed this my weak point. Now I have started riding with a club in our club rides with the average guys I am at the front on the climbs and wait for most of the other guys at the top. Which makes me feel it's worthwile. The fast boys will still leave me for dead on the climbs but riding up them burns far more energy than walking them ever did.
When ever I go out I look to plan at least 3 good hills in and sometimes 5 I even do hills reps on that hill but I have to push myself to do that hill 5 times in a row but it's paid off.0 -
ineedalager wrote:At the end of the day the only thing that gets you better at climbing is doing lots of it so miles in the legs in right but miles on hills. I used to have to walk up the steeper hills 4 yeras ago when I started MTBing. Once I finally cracked a fairly steep hill there was no turning back, I went from MTB granny ring to big ringing it up the hill within 18 months.
Then I got a hybrid which had 50/34 11-32 I never reliased just how much easier those gears made climbing until I got my Spesh 52/39 13-26 I could get up that hill but boy was it a grind. So I went for the 11-28 cassette. I felt grinding that hill was never going to get me better at it the 28 makes it easier and on a good day I can use the 24.
I not claiming to be great at climbing but I am vastly improved due to trageting hills as I deemed this my weak point. Now I have started riding with a club in our club rides with the average guys I am at the front on the climbs and wait for most of the other guys at the top. Which makes me feel it's worthwile. The fast boys will still leave me for dead on the climbs but riding up them burns far more energy than walking them ever did.
When ever I go out I look to plan at least 3 good hills in and sometimes 5 I even do hills reps on that hill but I have to push myself to do that hill 5 times in a row but it's paid off.
You're lucky that you've got some nice steep dual carriageways to train on.0 -
I agree with the above.jim453 wrote:Whatever he's riding - double, triple, quadruple, a million chainrings - he's going faster than you and so is doing more work though he may not be making quite as big a deal of it as you as he is much fitter.
Triples make the climb easier, but at the cost of speed (for a given cadence). If he is going faster than you, it is harder and he is a better climber, regardless of what his setup is.
A 30x25 combination isn't really that much lower than 34x25, and the same as 34x28. What the triple does provide is closer ratios with that 30t inner ring. TBH when you hit the hills with either setup you just end up in whatever gear you can manage. The other rider is simply a better (fitter and maybe lighter) climber than the OP.Aspire not to have more, but to be more.0 -
A lot of 'overthinking' has gone on here... on a fairly easy going training ride today.. before Sunday's race which is hilly in the sense of bleedin mountainous when it comes to doing it at race pace, I had my thinking switched on when it came to the inclines.
This is the weird bit, your companion, can overtake you, you check as he goes past
big ring,yup (nothing like 11% , you all understand)
looks the same up the block, yup
cadence. not far off, yup
he going quicker,, er...
bugger, I'll just have to pedal harder0
