The thinking behind Hill Repeats

Sunderland Supporter

When I was out on my 1st club run yesterday, see other thread about it, there was this hill that we went up. Id say from bottom to top would have been about 1.5 miles. Ill hazard a guess and estimate its average gradient to be approx 8 - 9 % . I lost ground to obviously fitter riders and much lighter bikes. If I use this climb for hill repeats,climb up and cycle back down and climb up etc etc, would this lead to improved cycling efficiency for me , and if so , how does this concept work ?

MichaelW

Interval training on big, steep hills is one of the most effective way to get fitter and stronger and it is just about the only way to get really good at hills. Suggest you build up gradually rather than start a new type of training at full whack.

Gusbang

Glad you have asked the question, I have the same problem, poor at hills. Are the hill repeats best done in or out of the saddle or a mixture as needed?

jgsi

In or out of saddle is your own preference.
My local 6 mile loop for this type of work has 1 major climb plus 1 hefty dink and a couple of sharp pulls.... my only training requisite is that everything is done on the big ring, just too much momentum lost twiddling.

ShutUpLegs

JGSI wrote:

In or out of saddle is your own preference.
My local 6 mile loop for this type of work has 1 major climb plus 1 hefty dink and a couple of sharp pulls.... my only training requisite is that everything is done on the big ring, just too much momentum lost twiddling.

Everything in the Big ring, seated, in the drops.

rolf_f

ShutUpLegs wrote:

JGSI wrote:

In or out of saddle is your own preference.
My local 6 mile loop for this type of work has 1 major climb plus 1 hefty dink and a couple of sharp pulls.... my only training requisite is that everything is done on the big ring, just too much momentum lost twiddling.

Everything in the Big ring, seated, in the drops.

And the small sprocket. And you need a bigger big ring

jgsi

You are allowed to die on the 11 and then before you lose consciousness you can shift up the block, now you are getting the idea...

alihisgreat

Sunderland Supporter wrote:

When I was out on my 1st club run yesterday, see other thread about it, there was this hill that we went up. Id say from bottom to top would have been about 1.5 miles. Ill hazard a guess and estimate its average gradient to be approx 8 - 9 % . I lost ground to obviously fitter riders and much lighter bikes. If I use this climb for hill repeats,climb up and cycle back down and climb up etc etc, would this lead to improved cycling efficiency for me , and if so , how does this concept work ?

If you cycle up hills more, you'll get better at cycling up hills! (yeah, really!)

That's the purpose of Hill repeats.

Its better than training on flat efforts for several reasons:

-> Different muscles engaged in climbing position (right back in the saddle, on the tops, pushing the heel down)
(-> you can practice out of the saddle climbing efforts)
-> Lower cadence/Higher power is generally used
-> Allows you to get the measure of your climbing ability (whereas flat training you won't be able to gauge it unless you rock a power meter).


Obviously you could train on the flat, doing high power efforts.. but its not going to feel like climbing in terms of the muscles engaged, and you're probably not going to get the power right without a power meter.

oldwelshman

Personally I find hill repeats absolutely boring. It is much better to do a ride with a variety of climbs in it if possible but to jut go up the climb, turn around and do it agan is so bloody boring IMO. Just do it once, hard then recover over the top, ride on along route and if no more hills do a mile effort on the flat if you want a few intervals.
Anyway it depends why you think the need to do this,there are next to no races in th UK with climbs in, sportives are not races and just ride and enjoy them, if preparing for a foreign sportive then UK climbs not too good anyway as prep and just as well do long intervals on turbo or flat route at power levels required to get you up 20km 6%climbs

Blancmange

ShutUpLegs wrote:

JGSI wrote:

In or out of saddle is your own preference.
My local 6 mile loop for this type of work has 1 major climb plus 1 hefty dink and a couple of sharp pulls.... my only training requisite is that everything is done on the big ring, just too much momentum lost twiddling.

Everything in the Big ring, seated, in the drops.

What is the vomiting rule?

1. MTFU and swallow it back down(It's nutritious and liquid).

2. Puke into verge/gutter as you cycle along.

3. Stop. Dismount. Have a right Huey. Remount.

alihisgreat

oldwelshman wrote:

Personally I find hill repeats absolutely boring. It is much better to do a ride with a variety of climbs in it if possible but to jut go up the climb, turn around and do it agan is so bloody boring IMO. Just do it once, hard then recover over the top, ride on along route and if no more hills do a mile effort on the flat if you want a few intervals.
Anyway it depends why you think the need to do this,there are next to no races in th UK with climbs in, sportives are not races and just ride and enjoy them, if preparing for a foreign sportive then UK climbs not too good anyway as prep and just as well do long intervals on turbo or flat route at power levels required to get you up 20km 6%climbs

Best of both worlds -> do a normal route with a repeat on each of the bigger hills?

nferrar

Its the are you training or riding to get fitter thing. If you're training and have specific goals in mind then I guess hill repeats are something you can motivate yourself to do but if you're just trying to get fitter then you'll probably get bored of them very quickly.

JustinLeeAtkinson

Nicole Cooke recently tweeted a training tip which was that after a long session on the road (hours in the saddle) when your legs are really fatigued you should then try some hill repeats which she said would build up your resistance to lactic acid.

I'm doing some cat4 road racing this year so I'm doing hill repeats on the local short sharp climb which is typical of the types of hill you get in local races. I dont have a power meter (surprise!) but cycle up the same hill each time in the same gear monitoring my average cadence at the end of each repeat. If can turn the pedals more quickly I am producing more power.

JustinLeeAtkinson

nferrar wrote:

Its the are you training or riding to get fitter thing. If you're training and have specific goals in mind then I guess hill repeats are something you can motivate yourself to do but if you're just trying to get fitter then you'll probably get bored of them very quickly.

+1 It definitely helps to work towards a goal. Hill repeats are really tough IMHO.

jgsi

JustinLeeAtkinson wrote:

Nicole Cooke recently tweeted a training tip which was that after a long session on the road (hours in the saddle) when your legs are really fatigued you should then try some hill repeats which she said would build up your resistance to lactic acid.

I'm doing some cat4 road racing this year so I'm doing hill repeats on the local short sharp climb which is typical of the types of hill you get in local races. I dont have a power meter (surprise!) but cycle up the same hill each time in the same gear monitoring my average cadence at the end of each repeat. If can turn the pedals more quickly I am producing more power.

sod the cadence, are you faster with practice?

MartinB2444

Cycling in the Peak District I don't have much choice as to whether I practice on hills but give me hills on a natural route than hill repeats any day. I suppose if you have one hill in a 30 mile radius you might be a bit stuck

Pacing is really important. I don't have a power meter but go by my heart rate. Going up a hill like yours 1.5 miles 8-9% I would certainly be taking it easy over the middle 3rd but checking my HR to make sure I'm not just being lazy! For me, aged 53 Max rate 176 I've found 154=lazy 158 = about right 166 = pending melt down. Over the middle 3rd I'll work to get the rate creeping up to around 166 and then the last 3rd increasingly into anaerobic territory with a rate of 170+ and a near death feeling. This assumes a fairly even gradient all the way up, obviously, with a concave hill things might need to be different. So far this approach seems to be working for me and I am getting much faster up hills (and "enjoying" them more) but I guess everyone is different.

Martin

ianbar

i have aimed for more hills in my general riding, i am a big lump so practicing the hills is important(and satisfying) for me, plus i feel i get generally faster when i need more power on the flat and also have more endurance. i don't so much do repeats though but try and tackle routes which force me to do more hills than normal. saying that i think i will try and put a few repeat session in as i think there maybe a good bit of training for me to do(also i entered the strava hill climbing comp so will help with that...i certainly need it lol)

JustinLeeAtkinson

JGSI wrote:

JustinLeeAtkinson wrote:

Nicole Cooke recently tweeted a training tip which was that after a long session on the road (hours in the saddle) when your legs are really fatigued you should then try some hill repeats which she said would build up your resistance to lactic acid.

I'm doing some cat4 road racing this year so I'm doing hill repeats on the local short sharp climb which is typical of the types of hill you get in local races. I dont have a power meter (surprise!) but cycle up the same hill each time in the same gear monitoring my average cadence at the end of each repeat. If can turn the pedals more quickly I am producing more power.

sod the cadence, are you faster with practice?

I think so! Need to put a few more sessions in still.

wardieboy

Repetition is the mother to success as far as hill climbing is concerned - Troy knows his shizzle...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9WaU-bZdic&feature=related