205 grams

p9uma

Thats the weight of all the plastic crap I took off my wife's new bike today. Reflectors, plastic thing they put on the spd, bell, etc. 205 grams of rubbish, that looks crap, but some EU numpty says that shops have to put on the bike before they sell it.

I don't know how many bikes are sold each year but that must add up to tons ( tonnes) of plastic rubbish thrown away every year.

So much for the environment.

oldraver

That EU numpty may actually have your wife's safety in mind when they come up with these rules.
Rear light runs out of juice at least she will have a rear facing reflector ( also mandatory to have fitted regardless of number of lights employed ). Pedal reflectors again actually quite a good idea really ( also mandatory ).
Bicycle lights if fitted do have a bit of a reputation for malfunctioning in a rainstorm.
Hi vis clothing can make up for these failings but, that is not guaranteed.

t.m.h.n.e.t

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp

You MUST

ensure your brakes are efficient
at night, use lit front and rear lights and have a red rear reflector

Bikes legally have to be sold with a bell,there is no law requiring it's use - only that it must be sold with one.

I'm sure your wife is really bothered about 205grams

rolf_f

:roll:

The bell is pretty handy if you use cycle paths with pedestrians on them. And most people who ride bikes don't take this 'crap' off the bikes so it isn't wasted.

If you shop at a supermarket, how much plastic packaging crap do you throw away every year? A damn sight more than 205 grams worth.......

p9uma

oldraver wrote:

That EU numpty may actually have your wife's safety in mind when they come up with these rules.
Rear light runs out of juice at least she will have a rear facing reflector ( also mandatory to have fitted regardless of number of lights employed ). Pedal reflectors again actually quite a good idea really ( also mandatory ).
Bicycle lights if fitted do have a bit of a reputation for malfunctioning in a rainstorm.
Hi vis clothing can make up for these failings but, that is not guaranteed.

Yeah.


Right.


It's a sports bike, a bike for doing sporty riding in the daytime. I have yet to see one single cycle club sportive rider, TT or SKY team rider riding a bike with plastic wheel reflectors on their bikes. I wonder if TDF riders keep the bells on their bikes.

p9uma

T.M.H.N.E.T wrote:

At night your cycle MUST have white front and red rear lights lit. It MUST also be fitted with a red rear reflector (and amber pedal reflectors, if manufactured after 1/10/85). White front reflectors and spoke reflectors will also help you to be seen. Flashing lights are permitted but it is recommended that cyclists who are riding in areas without street lighting use a steady front lamp

You MUST

ensure your brakes are efficient
at night, use lit front and rear lights and have a red rear reflector

Bikes legally have to be sold with a bell,there is no law requiring it's use - only that it must be sold with one.

I'm sure your wife is really bothered about 205grams

Of course she isn't not in the least, but my point is that the "Nannies" make retailers put this rubbish on the bikes, which a lot of serious riders take off and bin. The quality of the reflectors and bells is very poor and looks crap especially on expensive bike. The numpties should give cyclists some credit for having the sense to sort out their own equipment.

indysmith

I must agree with the OP on this one.
Of course there advantages to having bells and reflectors on your bike, but there are also numerous disadvantages.
Whilst not everybody takes this stuff off of their bike, there is a percentage (probably most of the people on this forum) that will not want a bell on their downhill bike or a reflector unbalancing their precision built road racing wheels;
it should always be up to the customer whether or not their new bike comes with these extras.

p9uma

Rolf F wrote:

:roll:

The bell is pretty handy if you use cycle paths with pedestrians on them. And most people who ride bikes don't take this 'crap' off the bikes so it isn't wasted.

From my experience this is not the case.

If you shop at a supermarket, how much plastic packaging crap do you throw away every year? A damn sight more than 205 grams worth.......

This is not relevant to my point. Which is, I took off a load of plastic rubbish off my wife's bike, that most regular cyclist also take off and throw away. If it was not EU regulations non of this rubbish would made and therefore discarded.

oldraver

p9uma wrote:

oldraver wrote:

That EU numpty may actually have your wife's safety in mind when they come up with these rules.
Rear light runs out of juice at least she will have a rear facing reflector ( also mandatory to have fitted regardless of number of lights employed ). Pedal reflectors again actually quite a good idea really ( also mandatory ).
Bicycle lights if fitted do have a bit of a reputation for malfunctioning in a rainstorm.
Hi vis clothing can make up for these failings but, that is not guaranteed.

Yeah.


Right.


It's a sports bike, a bike for doing sporty riding in the daytime. I have yet to see one single cycle club sportive rider, TT or SKY team rider riding a bike with plastic wheel reflectors on their bikes. I wonder if TDF riders keep the bells on their bikes.

Pro cyclists now do the circuit on open roads then?
Funnily enough I thought the TDF was closed off to road traffic during the duration.
I must be wrong

oldraver

Exemptions to The Pedal Bicycles (Safety) Regulations 2010

Exemptions for certain categories of bicycle

3.—(1) These Regulations do not apply in relation to the supply of a bicycle which—

(a)has a maximum saddle height of less than 635 millimetres;

(b)has been previously supplied and used (other than for the purpose of testing) on or off road;

(c)is a bicycle which has no brakes and is specifically designed for off-road racing on enclosed tracks;

(d)has been constructed, or is intended to be assembled, to the design of an individual person for use by that person in competitive events; or

(e)the person supplying the bicycle believes will not be used in the United Kingdom.

(2) In this regulation, “maximum saddle height” means the height of the top of the saddle when—

(a)the bicycle is placed on level ground in its normal riding position and completely upright;

(b)the saddle is raised to the fullest extent compatible with safety; and

(c)any pneumatic tyres on the wheels of the bicycle are fully inflated.

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Your Mrs Vicky Pendleton then?

p9uma

oldraver wrote:

p9uma wrote:

oldraver wrote:

That EU numpty may actually have your wife's safety in mind when they come up with these rules.
Rear light runs out of juice at least she will have a rear facing reflector ( also mandatory to have fitted regardless of number of lights employed ). Pedal reflectors again actually quite a good idea really ( also mandatory ).
Bicycle lights if fitted do have a bit of a reputation for malfunctioning in a rainstorm.
Hi vis clothing can make up for these failings but, that is not guaranteed.

Yeah.


Right.


It's a sports bike, a bike for doing sporty riding in the daytime. I have yet to see one single cycle club sportive rider, TT or SKY team rider riding a bike with plastic wheel reflectors on their bikes. I wonder if TDF riders keep the bells on their bikes.

Pro cyclists now do the circuit on open roads then?
Funnily enough I thought the TDF was closed off to road traffic during the duration.
I must be wrong

We are getting off the point. Or you are being deliberately obtuse, I'm not sure.

I threw away this stuff on a bike that my wife did not want on it. It was cheap crap junk on an otherwise expensive bike. Every serious hobbiest cyclist I have ever met has never kept this stuff on their bike, for varios reasons, mostly I suspect because it looks shit, but I expect some to shed weight. I put it to you that most sports/keep fit cyclists throw this stuff away also. If they do, then it's a waste of recouces and a waste of money and a waste of everyone's time. I threw the crap off my bike too, and the other two bikes I own.

Or maybe it's just me then.

oldraver

I put it to you that most sports/keep fit cyclists are not exempt from the relevant 2010 statutory instrument & merely do it to look good.
Their actual performance by abiding by regulations will not suffer in the slightest. :-)

rolf_f

p9uma wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

:roll:

The bell is pretty handy if you use cycle paths with pedestrians on them. And most people who ride bikes don't take this 'crap' off the bikes so it isn't wasted.

From my experience this is not the case.

What - that the bell is useful or most people who ride bikes don't take the so called crap off.

In either case you are wrong. Bells do alert pedestrians and most people (by which I don't mean enthusiast cyclists) don't take the stuff off their bikes - enthusiast cyclists are in a rather small minority overall.

As for my other point - of course it's relevant. If you want to complain about the environmental impact of wasted manufacturing (and I agree this is something to complain about) then focus on something worth making a fuss about. 205 grams on a bike is nothing. I am prepared to bet that you do waste far more plastic by 100s of times just shopping for food.

And who says it is just EU regulations that would require this? The UK is far more keen to fully enact EU law than a lot of countries so it is entirely possible that we would have made these requirements ourselves anyway and rightly so. It's all a bit weak and lazy to just have a go at the EU because you had to spend several minutes of your life undoing a couple of bits of plastic from your wifes bike.

p9uma

Rolf F wrote:

p9uma wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

:roll:

The bell is pretty handy if you use cycle paths with pedestrians on them. And most people who ride bikes don't take this 'crap' off the bikes so it isn't wasted.

From my experience this is not the case.

What - that the bell is useful or most people who ride bikes don't take the so called crap off.

In either case you are wrong. Bells do alert pedestrians and most people (by which I don't mean enthusiast cyclists) don't take the stuff off their bikes - enthusiast cyclists are in a rather small minority overall.

As for my other point - of course it's relevant. If you want to complain about the environmental impact of wasted manufacturing (and I agree this is something to complain about) then focus on something worth making a fuss about. 205 grams on a bike is nothing. I am prepared to bet that you do waste far more plastic by 100s of times just shopping for food.

And who says it is just EU regulations that would require this? The UK is far more keen to fully enact EU law than a lot of countries so it is entirely possible that we would have made these requirements ourselves anyway and rightly so. It's all a bit weak and lazy to just have a go at the EU because you had to spend several minutes of your life undoing a couple of bits of plastic from your wifes bike.

Yes, of course you are right on all your points and I am wrong. I apologise for posting it up for discussion. It was just an observation that if I threw all these bits away, then I suspect a huge percentage of others do, regardless of the regulations . Which is in my opinion is waste of resources, resellers time fitting the stuff, and my time taking it off again and money. That was meant to be my point that was all.

Edit: 3,640,000 new bikes where sold last year according to Januarys edition of Cyling Plus. If just 10% of new owners took off that plastic stuff and dumped it, it's an awful waste however you look at it. I'd rather it wasn't put on at all, especially on bikes where its very likely to be not wanted in the first place.

On a side note, the bell I took off was so feeble, that you would need the hearing of The Champions for it be any use at all. If one has to have a bell make it one that makes a difference.

oldraver

If 10% of new owners take the additional fitted at the point of sale off then, surely 10% of new owners are not protected as well as they could be or, need educating to the fact that just because they spend the money & have it to burn they will still not make pro cyclist grade.

alihisgreat

I walked into the shop, and walked out with the display model -> and therefore avoided such nonsense.


In one of the LBS i use... they display their bikes with all the ugly fitted -> i recommended that they take it all off!

mouth

p9uma wrote:

Yeah.


Right.


It's a sports bike, a bike for doing sporty riding in the daytime. I have yet to see one single cycle club sportive rider, TT or SKY team rider riding a bike with plastic wheel reflectors on their bikes. I wonder if TDF riders keep the bells on their bikes.

If Wiggo/Cav/insert favourite professional cyclist here left on the bell and pedal reflectors etc would you do the same? My point is you probably wouldn't leave them on so don't use the pro's as as excuse for your actions. Also, reminds me of a story regarding Contador last year or the year before. Whilst training for one of the grands tour he was stopped by the Police for not having lights on his bike and had to load it into the team car for a lift home. Tells me that because it's good enough for him it ain't good enough for me. I might ask to borrow some clenbuterol though.

oldraver

Mouth wrote:

p9uma wrote:

Yeah.


Right.


It's a sports bike, a bike for doing sporty riding in the daytime. I have yet to see one single cycle club sportive rider, TT or SKY team rider riding a bike with plastic wheel reflectors on their bikes. I wonder if TDF riders keep the bells on their bikes.

If Wiggo/Cav/insert favourite professional cyclist here left on the bell and pedal reflectors etc would you do the same? My point is you probably wouldn't leave them on so don't use the pro's as as excuse for your actions. Also, reminds me of a story regarding Contador last year or the year before. Whilst training for one of the grands tour he was stopped by the Police for not having lights on his bike and had to load it into the team car for a lift home. Tells me that because it's good enough for him it ain't good enough for me. I might ask to borrow some clenbuterol though.

A spot on the money story like this perhaps? http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/15062011/ ... ights.html :-)

rolf_f

p9uma wrote:

Yes, of course you are right on all your points and I am wrong. I apologise for posting it up for discussion.

Oh, I misunderstood. I didn't realise you wanted to post something on the internet and have everyone agree with you. You should have said!

You are right that any waste is a bad thing - and maybe the bell wasn't up to the mark though when I've used them, I've found even the really little ones work pretty well. And the pedal reflectors are actually a good thing. They make bikes stand out really well though, as with the bell, personally I've become a victim to the fashion police and ditched them like you did. But that isn't someone in the EU being a numpty - that's me being a numpty. I've made myself less safe for no reason other than that is what cycle fashion tells me to do.

BTW I suspect it is a damn site less than 10% who take this stuff off.

griffsters

I think the law is well meaning and for the likes of my Mrs and her Halfords special (that spends all of its life in the shed :roll: ) is good, but in reality I dont see many bells and reflectors still on roadie bikes. They get taken off and binned - normally replaced (lights anyway) with better quality kit with a spare in a saddle bag.

So in that respect, I can see exactly what the OP is saying and think there may be a tad of devils advocate going on here.

Edit: Perhaps this horse isnt for our course

rolf_f

Griffsters wrote:

...... but in reality I dont see many bells and reflectors still on roadie bikes. They get taken off and binned - normally replaced (lights anyway) with better quality kit with a spare in a saddle bag.

I see a lot of pedal reflectors replaced by hopelessly inadequate, almost invisible lights. If people actually used decent lights, then the case for not having pedal reflectors might be stronger. In many cases, I'd say that pedal reflectors alone would have made a cyclist far more visible than the rotten lights they use instead.

We (ie enthusiasts who read reviews and compare notes) might buy better quality stuff (some of the time) but most cyclists, even roadies, aren't on these forums.

griffsters

Aye, I agree but we're getting into the realms of common sense.. and i'm afraid from what I see on a daily basis vast swathes of the populace simply dont have much of it

napoleond

Anyone fancy a pint?

t.m.h.n.e.t

NapoleonD wrote:

Anyone fancy a pint?

Only if you buy and throw the glass away to save weight

griffsters

NapoleonD wrote:

Anyone fancy a pint?

Love one, be with you right after i've put these bloody reflectors back on.

oldraver

NapoleonD wrote:

Anyone fancy a pint?

Not for me thanks I am on a weight weenie diet 8)