OT: Belgian Beer

ddraver

It wasnt too bad today, I think leaving it to ferment in the fridge for 2 days has helped. I think this suggests that I went with way too much liquid in the first place so will try again with one bottle

ddraver

Tried again with
600g of crap albert hein meat
2 onions
1 Westmalle Dubbel
seasonings
2 slices of bread and grainy mustard
1 stock cube in the beery liquid

Nailed it!

disgruntledgoat

ddraver wrote:

Tried again with
600g of crap albert hein meat
2 onions
1 Westmalle Dubbel
seasonings
2 slices of bread and grainy mustard
1 stock cube in the beery liquid

Nailed it!

Poifick!

Amstel line up is: st Bernadus Tripel, Gentse Tripel, Kwaremont, Straffe Hendrik's 11.

bobmcstuff

I'm drinking a tripel from an Aberdeenshire brewery who make Belgian style beer - Six Degrees North (so called because they are six degrees north of Brussels). They have a bar in Aberdeen and it's a good place to go for Belgian beers, they have a great selection on tap and a massive choice of bottles.

As far as tripels go it compares favourably to actual Belgian tripels. Their saison is pretty good too.

bigmat

Tesco do a saison style beer that is surprisingly good. Also, Aldi stock La Goudale which is a solid Leffe blonde style beer.

Had a bottle of Kwaremont a couple of nights OK, I actually quite liked it - like a regular strong blonde but with a bit of extra warmth (2 thirds Leffe, one third Kwak). Have a cupboard full of stuff to try after Flanders / Roubaix weekends, including a bottle of West Vleteren tripel. €10 (gulp) but seemed rude not to. Scary thing is I remember spending an evening drinking that stuff when I was in Gent in the 90s, pretty sure it wasn't anything like that price otherwise I would have been selling a kidney to pay for what I drank!

EKIMIKE

Glad to hear you've nailed the Stoverij ddraver!

Missed Amstel 'cos I was out on a club drinking sesh but the Liege line up is definitely going to be the selection of De Struise Pannepots! Very much looking forward to that!

I think the monks of Westvleteren have struggled to manage demand since 'the internet' discovered it was both great beer and in short supply. One day I want to collect some from the Abbey but it sounds like a bit of an ordeal.

[Shameless beer-related plug]BrewDog issuing a new batch of shares. Referral code: R565420[/Shameless beer-related plug]

bobmcstuff

EKIMIKE wrote:

[Shameless beer-related plug]BrewDog issuing a new batch of shares. Referral code: R565420[/Shameless beer-related plug]

I have a sneaking suspicion that's what I'm getting for my birthday in a couple of weeks. The misses tried to get me shares last year but just missed out, and she was being really cagey when I was talking about some jerseys I wanted etc.

Either that or it's the Giant Defy Advanced Pro 1 I was banging on about last week, we can live in hope...

I don't really like Brewdog's marketing nonsense but they do stock some decent beers, and the bar in Aberdeen is really friendly. I find the other ones a bit variable though.

On topic, their Electric India saison is pretty decent, not really a proper saison but nice enough.

rick_chasey

Camden Hell's beer are looking for funding through equity too.

Spent a lot advertising the fact on the tube. Probably could have asked for less funding and not advertised, but hey, it's not my business.

BelgianBeerGeek

BigMat wrote:

Tesco do a saison style beer that is surprisingly good. Also, Aldi stock La Goudale which is a solid Leffe blonde style beer.

Had a bottle of Kwaremont a couple of nights OK, I actually quite liked it - like a regular strong blonde but with a bit of extra warmth (2 thirds Leffe, one third Kwak). Have a cupboard full of stuff to try after Flanders / Roubaix weekends, including a bottle of West Vleteren tripel. €10 (gulp) but seemed rude not to. Scary thing is I remember spending an evening drinking that stuff when I was in Gent in the 90s, pretty sure it wasn't anything like that price otherwise I would have been selling a kidney to pay for what I drank!

The Tesco Saison is a puzzle. It's made by Marstons and not much like a Belgian saison (whatever one of those is). It is a pretty good beer, though. La Goudale is a French biere de garde. I haven't drunk Leffe for ages, but don't think they are that similar. I am a little ray of sunshine today, aren't I?
Is the Westvleteren tripel the 12? €10 a bottle? Really?

bigmat

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Tesco do a saison style beer that is surprisingly good. Also, Aldi stock La Goudale which is a solid Leffe blonde style beer.

Had a bottle of Kwaremont a couple of nights OK, I actually quite liked it - like a regular strong blonde but with a bit of extra warmth (2 thirds Leffe, one third Kwak). Have a cupboard full of stuff to try after Flanders / Roubaix weekends, including a bottle of West Vleteren tripel. €10 (gulp) but seemed rude not to. Scary thing is I remember spending an evening drinking that stuff when I was in Gent in the 90s, pretty sure it wasn't anything like that price otherwise I would have been selling a kidney to pay for what I drank!

The Tesco Saison is a puzzle. It's made by Marstons and not much like a Belgian saison (whatever one of those is). It is a pretty good beer, though. La Goudale is a French biere de garde. I haven't drunk Leffe for ages, but don't think they are that similar. I am a little ray of sunshine today, aren't I?
Is the Westvleteren tripel the 12? €10 a bottle? Really?

yes, the 12. the blonde and the dubbel were both €8 I think. Craziness given what you could get for a couple of €, but I will save it for a special occasion and enjoy it. Biere de garde maybe a bit "lighter" but it is in the same ballpark as something like Leffe isn't it - same strength, blonde, relatively easy to drink. Agree the saison isn't quite the same but its nice and not a million miles away - something like Dupont is very dry and a bit sour from recollection whereas the Tesco one is more like a very dry IPA? A lot easier to source though (at least once I have emptied my beer fridge!)

bobmcstuff

BigMat wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

BigMat wrote:

Tesco do a saison style beer that is surprisingly good. Also, Aldi stock La Goudale which is a solid Leffe blonde style beer.

Had a bottle of Kwaremont a couple of nights OK, I actually quite liked it - like a regular strong blonde but with a bit of extra warmth (2 thirds Leffe, one third Kwak). Have a cupboard full of stuff to try after Flanders / Roubaix weekends, including a bottle of West Vleteren tripel. €10 (gulp) but seemed rude not to. Scary thing is I remember spending an evening drinking that stuff when I was in Gent in the 90s, pretty sure it wasn't anything like that price otherwise I would have been selling a kidney to pay for what I drank!

The Tesco Saison is a puzzle. It's made by Marstons and not much like a Belgian saison (whatever one of those is). It is a pretty good beer, though. La Goudale is a French biere de garde. I haven't drunk Leffe for ages, but don't think they are that similar. I am a little ray of sunshine today, aren't I?
Is the Westvleteren tripel the 12? €10 a bottle? Really?

yes, the 12. the blonde and the dubbel were both €8 I think. Craziness given what you could get for a couple of €, but I will save it for a special occasion and enjoy it. Biere de garde maybe a bit "lighter" but it is in the same ballpark as something like Leffe isn't it - same strength, blonde, relatively easy to drink. Agree the saison isn't quite the same but its nice and not a million miles away - something like Dupont is very dry and a bit sour from recollection whereas the Tesco one is more like a very dry IPA? A lot easier to source though (at least once I have emptied my beer fridge!)

Yeah biere de garde and belgian blonde aren't too dissimilar, the biere de garde should be a bit weaker than a Belgian blond though.

A good saison should be noticeably different, should smell a lot more distinctive and finish a lot drier (they tend to be highly attenuated).

http://www.bjcp.org/stylecenter.php - is pretty interesting. Style guidelines for beer competitions.

BelgianBeerGeek

Hmm...I'd say biere de garde is often much stronger than a blonde (7.5 - 9% ish). I suppose their equivalent would be a tripel.
Saison is much more difficult to pin down, but I agree it should be noticably different, especially in the hopping.
As for styling guidelines and classifying beer styles - now we are entering the realms of true pedantry.

bobmcstuff

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

As for styling guidelines and classifying beer styles - now we are entering the realms of true pedantry.

I agree, it's a bit pedantic. Although I find it useful when I'm not sure what the differences are supposed to be, and it gives commercial examples and a bit of history of the style which is always interesting to know.

I brew my own beer as well so it's quite useful for that - usually when you find out that your idea for a beer that is like one style but slightly different turns out to already exist... Or if you want to enter your beer into a competition, then it's kinda handy to know what they're judging it against.

FoldingJoe

Tried an Orval the other evening. Very nice beer. Worth a look.

awavey

BigMat wrote:

yes, the 12. the blonde and the dubbel were both €8 I think. Craziness given what you could get for a couple of €, but I will save it for a special occasion and enjoy it. Biere de garde maybe a bit "lighter" but it is in the same ballpark as something like Leffe isn't it - same strength, blonde, relatively easy to drink. Agree the saison isn't quite the same but its nice and not a million miles away - something like Dupont is very dry and a bit sour from recollection whereas the Tesco one is more like a very dry IPA? A lot easier to source though (at least once I have emptied my beer fridge!)

that Tescos saison will almost certainly be brewed with a combined belgian saison yeast/marstons yeast, which would give it a different taste, and the water is going to be treated differently too

youve also got to remember those types of supermarket beers are brewed to a set budget, which isnt something the average Belgian brewer probably worries about, they wont go we cant put that many hops in because it breaks the budget on the beer, theyll put the amount of hops in the beer recipe needs to get the right flavour, hence potentially the wider price variance.

I dont know I thought I paid 8 Euros each for a 12 and a 8 about 18months ago in Brugge,but it was weird some places you went in they claimed there was none of it about, next bar we walked in they had plenty.

hommelbier

FoldingJoe wrote:

Tried an Orval the other evening. Very nice beer. Worth a look.

Is it just me, but I’ve never really enjoyed drinking Orval?. On the other hand Chimay Bleue is one of my all time favourites.

On the subject of northern French beers many are relatively strong (eg Trois Monts is 8.5%) but one of the bargains I usually stock up with coming back from France is Jenlain Ambrée biere de garde in the 75cl bottle at 7.5% and just over 2 euros in the big supermarkets (Sainsburys used to sell it in the UK many years ago as a French Country Beer).

bobmcstuff

hommelbier wrote:

FoldingJoe wrote:

Tried an Orval the other evening. Very nice beer. Worth a look.

Is it just me, but I’ve never really enjoyed drinking Orval?. On the other hand Chimay Bleue is one of my all time favourites.

Orval is brewed with Brettanomyces and Chimay is not. Brett gives pretty unique flavours to beer, kinda funky farmhouse-y type aromas, which a lot of people don't like (it's actually an off flavour in some styles and wines because it means you've got yeast contamination from somewhere). It also ferments out more of the sugars so it'll be drier. It's a much drier beer than Chimay Bleue.

Orval's also dry hopped which means it's got a hoppier aroma than many Belgian beers (inc. Chimay Bleue).

EKIMIKE

The thing with Orval is that you need to let it sit around for a few months or even years for the brettanomyces to develop.

I've had young bottles and old bottles and the young stuff really isn't that nice. Let it develop, however, and you have yourself a real treat!

BelgianBeerGeek

bobmcstuff wrote:

hommelbier wrote:

FoldingJoe wrote:

Tried an Orval the other evening. Very nice beer. Worth a look.

Is it just me, but I’ve never really enjoyed drinking Orval?. On the other hand Chimay Bleue is one of my all time favourites.

Orval is brewed with Brettanomyces and Chimay is not. Brett gives pretty unique flavours to beer, kinda funky farmhouse-y type aromas, which a lot of people don't like (it's actually an off flavour in some styles and wines because it means you've got yeast contamination from somewhere). It also ferments out more of the sugars so it'll be drier. It's a much drier beer than Chimay Bleue.

Orval's also dry hopped which means it's got a hoppier aroma than many Belgian beers (inc. Chimay Bleue).

I would also add that in recent years the quality might have been a bit variable. Orval now has a new brewster and she seems pretty determined to make quality assurance her top priority. It has also suffered a bit from over-exposure, IMO. Supermarkets and the like don't always take much care over their bottles. I have had a few gushers over the years :oops:
I find it at it's best stored away for about a year for the brett to do its thing. Then it is one of the world's finest beers.

Edit: wot EKIMIKE said

BelgianBeerGeek

bobmcstuff wrote:

BelgianBeerGeek wrote:

As for styling guidelines and classifying beer styles - now we are entering the realms of true pedantry.

I agree, it's a bit pedantic. Although I find it useful when I'm not sure what the differences are supposed to be, and it gives commercial examples and a bit of history of the style which is always interesting to know.

I brew my own beer as well so it's quite useful for that - usually when you find out that your idea for a beer that is like one style but slightly different turns out to already exist... Or if you want to enter your beer into a competition, then it's kinda handy to know what they're judging it against.

As the weather forecast this weekend looks rubbish, I am having a brewday on Saturday. The AG Belgian Blonde kit from Malt Miller, as it happens. Looking forward to it. Don't think I am entering amy competitions though - I am no way near that competent.

bobmcstuff

I only entered a couple when I lived in Manchester - haven't done any for a while, and I didn't do especially well when I did. Haven't brewed that much since I moved, my new flat doesn't have anywhere to ferment that isn't carpeted, and my turbo trainer is in the way at the moment. Need more space...

No_Ta_Doctor

bobmcstuff wrote:

hommelbier wrote:

FoldingJoe wrote:

Tried an Orval the other evening. Very nice beer. Worth a look.

Is it just me, but I’ve never really enjoyed drinking Orval?. On the other hand Chimay Bleue is one of my all time favourites.

Orval is brewed with Brettanomyces and Chimay is not. Brett gives pretty unique flavours to beer, kinda funky farmhouse-y type aromas, which a lot of people don't like (it's actually an off flavour in some styles and wines because it means you've got yeast contamination from somewhere). It also ferments out more of the sugars so it'll be drier. It's a much drier beer than Chimay Bleue.

Orval's also dry hopped which means it's got a hoppier aroma than many Belgian beers (inc. Chimay Bleue).

Not had an Orval for years now, went off them. I think the advice to let them stand for a year is probably good, though I've never manage to have a beer last that long....

FoldingJoe

Not sure how long mine had been left standing for, but I enjoyed it all the same!!

BelgianBeerGeek

Evening all, how's about a thread resurrection?

ducknumber1

Yes- who's round is it?

BelgianBeerGeek

Yours - mine's a tripel.
Have been enjoying the off-season with lots of different beers - currently really enjoying Rulles beers. Wallonian farmhouse beer is where it's at, and it keeps you away from pointless off-season speculation.
My tips: 2016 will not be the season you think. Unknowns to take the world of cycling by storm. Geraint to be awesome, and Kevin Reza to be also awesome. Everything else to be lacklustre. The Dutch to underperform.
As you were. Carry on 8)

bobmcstuff

Had a Hop Ruiter (Scheldebrouwerij) this week, it was really nice. AIUI it's hard to get hold of and some sort of collab with an American brewery, it's very hoppy like an American IPA but still tastes like a Belgian. I thought it was decent anyway.

There's a good Belgian beer bar here in Aberdeen, unfortunately it's usually just me who wants to go...

My favourite's a nice flanders red

BelgianBeerGeek

Ah yes, the excitement over "red" ales. Just like "black IPAs" and "double IPAs" I can't quite see the point.
Maybe me being curmudgeonly, but the use of rye in everything is wearing thin. Thank god for the conservatism of abbey brewing. Rochefort 6 is rapidly becoming my favourite "session" Belgian beer.
If I'm ever in Aberdeen, you're on. Your money's quite safe, though, I haven't been to Scotland for 25 years.

bobmcstuff

I see your point about red ales in general but a Flanders Red isn't remotely like a modern American red ale - Flanders Reds are an old style, they're sour and quite sweet, and not really hoppy. I also don't think it has rye in it usually although I could be wrong.

Rodenbach Grand Cruise or Duchesse du Bourgogne are good examples that I like. They're a bit more palatable than most sour beers because of the sweetness.

I don't mind a double IPA from time to time, the problem with those is they were quite trendy for a while so everybody makes them which means there are a lot of bad or just OK examples.

Black IPAs normally either taste like an IPA with black food colouring in or a stout with stacks of hops. I'd rather just drink a proper IPA or a proper stout.

No_Ta_Doctor

I love the Flanders reds. The Duchesse was my introduction many years ago to sour beers in general.

I'd quite happily never drink another IPA again. They've become ubiquitous, to the extent that it's hard to find a beer that isn't an IPA or close relation in the bars now. And it's reached the point where I'm half expecting to have to strain the hops out before drinking...These aren't Deuchars. IMO the IPAs and stouts have exploded on the craft beer scene because they're far easier to knock out than beers that require a proper balance between malt and hops. It's easy to pass off the fact they're so one dimensional with some bombast about having loads of flavour.

Challenge to craft/micro-brewers: Drink a pint of Deuchars and come back when you can brew an IPA that has that sort of balance.