Evans Cycles - is this typical?

jehosophat

I have not used them much hence the question - dealings with CRC, Stif and others have always been great.

I was looking for a particular carbon frame from a big OEM and a number of people had it for sale for £2000. Only Evans claimed to have it in stock in my size, so I ordered it on Monday for collection from a local store. Allegedly things ordered for store collection will be there next day. The order went to status "successful" on Monday and the money was taken. Two days later I called the store, they could see the order on the system but no more, asked me to call head office. I did this to be told - after a fair bit of flapping about - that they had no stock and were not likely to get any more in, ever. The guy then said "do you want a refund?", responding to which I just about held my cool :evil: I asked him when they were going to tell me if they had no stock, no answer, and to date no refund either - about to call again.

All in all a highly shoddy experience! The worst of it all is that the half dozen or so shops advertising it at this price are apparently all wrong - it has a £3000 RRP and they can't get close to two. Right now loads of people are still advertising it for £2k but none are showing stock, and if you call them they all say it is £3k and supplies are very restricted. It is a 2012 frame.

benpinnick

What frame is it?

oodboo

Would that be the trek fuel ex 9.9 frame? Something dodgy going on there. Everywhere advertising it for £2 but nowhere selling it.

benpinnick

What will have happened is Trek will have said we've got a load at £1000 - everyone sticks them up advertised, then they sell out, all the shops left holding the can. It happens.

If it is a 9.9 your after, I'd try Rutland, they're pretty reliable.

jehosophat

It is a 9.9. I have done a deal with a local shop - well, possibly, I am awaiting confirmation of stock form Europe. Being a Trek it needs collection so Rutland is too far away... All very galling though as I originally believed this was up for £2k since so many places are advertising it as such.

I originally started out by calling local shops but none had stock and most pointed out immediately the price was £3k - even if it was showing as £2k on their own websites.

I am assuming Trek made some kind of mistake on their pricing. The frame retails for not much under $4k in the US, so at least it is not like Santa Cruz where the UK price is the same in pounds as the US dollar number.

Also it seems odd that Trek 2012 bikes and frames seem to have such a limited window of availability, I was idly looking at a EX9 complete bike in a LBS that do a lot of Trek and they said they only had a few more weeks of supply available.

craigw99

just checked their web page - due in 06/12 .... looks like its a future promo do you need a deposit or pay in full up front? if its the latter could be a way of improving cash flow......

jehosophat

It was "in stock" in my size on their website when I ordered, which was why I ordered! In stock is supposed to mean available for collection the next day at a local store! All the other sizes said what they say now.

Anyway, this gets weirder - I called today to see where my credit was as I had verbally cancelled the order and been promised a refund last wednesday, they said the order was still valid and they had it coming in in a week and it was still £2k - I said I thought that price may be a mistake and they said they would honour it even if it was. So I'm sticking with them as the local shop still didn't know if definitely they had access to a frame or not and it was a lot more £.

Apart from anything else it sounds like Trek massively underestimated UK orders this year, a lot of people seem to be flapping regarding stock for the remainder of 2012. And it is barely spring!

I'm not good with waiting though - I sold the Blur on Ebay last night and my old Superlight's rear triangle is out of alignment so am awaiting a pro pack for that to see if it is recoverable (not sure if it is frame, axle, or bearings at the moment). In the meantime no full susser available, dry paths, and plenty of days off work over Easter where I could be bike building or riding. Not ideal! Thought I'd have a frame by now... If this Trek does not materialise I shall be seriously kicking myself for not just ordering a Yeti ASR5 frame a week ago.

jehosophat

I couldn't make this up!

So I placed an order and paid in full for an "in stock, next day delivery" frame. In March.

Three days later I called them to ask where it was, was told "none available and none coming in, would you like to cancel your order?". Said yes.

A week after that called them to see where my refund was, was told the order was still on the system and they had stock coming in for 7th April. Told them to keep it live.

Today got a voicemail from them saying they had no stock coming in until "possibly the end of April".

Every time I call, a completely different story, and the annoying thing is I really WANT this frame now, plus it is better value than other comparable ones, and no-one has it. How hard can it be???

supersonic

Get your money back!

The Rookie

The frame comes from the US, that's a 4 week lead time, if Trek are messing dealers around then some may get what is ordered, some may not, don't think it's Evan's fault here to be honest, if Trek say they are going to get some and then say they won't, what else can Evans do? Knowing Trek they are servicing there main dealers first and leaving the smaller fry or large chains that sell everything to suffer.

butcher of bakersfield

Are Trek messing dealers about? If a dealer advertises a product as 'in stock' and they don't actually have it in stock, then that's nothing to do with Trek.

supersonic

what else can Evans do

They shouldn't take money until they physically have stock, pretty sure some new rules from the oft came in about this.

blablablacksheep

^^ +1 they cannot take payments untill the stock comes in.

jehosophat

Yep as of tomorrow when shops open I will be ordering something - but only what that shop physically has in stock!

Choices appear to be - Blur XC carbon with free 32 F120 Kashima (seems weird and I assumed last year's model frame but it is a tapered fork so must be a 2012... Or Yeti ASR5c

Which comes back to the travel thing - the former is more suited to 99% of the riding I actually do, but the latter won't exactly hold me back on that typical riding and will add an extra dimension when I go to trail centres. Then again VPP tends to be pretty plush so 105mm of that and a 120mm fork will still be pretty good at CYB or similar. And of course keeping up with one's mates on a shorter travel bike downhill is the equivalent of what I used to do at trackdays in a relatively low powered Caterham compared to the ones with much more bhp - always fun!

The Rookie

supersonic wrote:

They shouldn't take money until they physically have stock, pretty sure some new rules from the oft came in about this.

That is without doubt true, I was referring more to the complaint at the continual change in delivery date.

diy

Its the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations, but they are not the strongest remedy. Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 say - Seller must supply within 30 days of taking order or issue a refund.

The issue around unfair terms is because most sellers will claim the order is not accepted until the order is shipped, as this gets them out of being bound by pricing mistakes or compensation if they then fail to supply. This triggers unfair terms regulations as it is an unfair terms to require payment in full in advance, but not actually accept the order until the item is shipped. It creates an imbalance of power. We have your money, but we haven't accepted your order Unfair terms can just be ignored in a contract, they don't necessarily cancel the contract.

Anonymous

benpinnick wrote:

What will have happened is Trek will have said we've got a load at £1000 - everyone sticks them up advertised, then they sell out, all the shops left holding the can. It happens.

^ This.

supersonic wrote:

They shouldn't take money until they physically have stock, pretty sure some new rules from the oft came in about this.

Messes with a lot of retailers who won't or can't afford to keep vast amounts of stock just in case someone might order them. Many go for a Just In Time model of trying to predict what they need, when they will likely sell them and only stock when it's needed, doing that on order and getting the stock from the supplier quickly to deliver on time is what they sometimes depend on. But then things screw up and the supplier withdraw the stock or deal, leaving those retailers high and dry.

The flaw then in on the retailer's stock system not flagging this up quick enough to prevent taking orders. Big retailers like Evans may have so much of it automated that few real people actually know what's going on.

Talking of not taking money until they have stock though, Evans were demanding I pay for a helmet to get one in just so I can try it on. Suffice to say I passed on that.

jehosophat

Quite a few other places are still showing 9.9 frames in stock for £2k. It seems to me that people are suggesting they have stuff in stock and are happy to take your money but what they actually mean is "we think we can get this quickly from the distributor". In which case they need to make that clear. It seems to me the bike industry is slacker than many in this regard - ordering laptops or AV equipment I have never had this happen, they either hold stock or have competent software links to their distributor's stock. IMHO the bike industry is commonly complacent and incompetent at this sort of thing.

I am going to find someone who actually has what I want in their warehouse now, and then order it! Of course I would go the LBS route if I could, but no-one seems to stock frames...

Anonymous

True about the bike industry on the web generally. Same with delivery times. I'm so used to ordering from Amazon in the evening and getting it next day (and Amazon give me an accurate cut off time for ordering too) so find it annoying with the likes of CRC ordering "same day shipping that isn't" and it turns up a few days later, maybe a week, depending how they feel and maybe have to remind them

Can easily turn this into a CRC delivery bashing thread ... but we all know, even with Evans, it's Wiggle's fault really.

kammybear

I've just experienced this for the first time in about 7 years. I thought the net had moved past this?

It was just a £9 Cube bottle cage FFS!

supersonic

Messes with a lot of retailers who won't or can't afford to keep vast amounts of stock just in case someone might order them

I am pretty sure it is against CPRs rules ie 'bait advertising':

advertising products at a specified price without disclosing that the trader has reasonable grounds to believe he may not be able to supply them or their equivalent at that price for a reasonable period or in reasonable quantities.

This seems to be the case here, the store doesn't have a clue.

All stores I have worked at have operated a sale or return basis. Given as the delivery wagon turns up atleast weekly, any unsold goods just go back on and back to the distributors depot.

Anonymous

Maybe that's the thing, if the goods are coming from US, don't suppose they have a weekly van back and forth.

Though you'd expect in most cases a local distributor to be involved.

Holyzeus

deadkenny wrote:

benpinnick wrote:

Talking of not taking money until they have stock though, Evans were demanding I pay for a helmet to get one in just so I can try it on. Suffice to say I passed on that.

I've had to do this for a few Evans purchases, if you dont want it they simply refund

jehosophat

I was quite an early adopter in terms of Internet purchases - I was buying bikes, holidays etc online 15 years ago. I always avoid obviously tiny players with poor websites, and this is the first time I have ever ordered and had payment taken for a supposedly in stock item that has not turned up within a few days. I will call around after the Trek tomorrow but I strongly suspect I am going to find none actually present, and a few more people telling me it is actually £3k. Which is a bad thing as plenty of people still claim to have it and for £2k

Annoying as the Trek splits the difference between the asr5c (the swing arms and 2 year warranty of which worry me) and the blur xc carbon. I am leaning towards the latter since I have had great experiences with SC for my last 3 bikes and Stif usually have plenty. I don't want to go for more than a 120mm fork so the Blur LT is out. I resent SC's UK pricing but the current Stif fork offer on the xc is great. I imagine people are buying more of the longer travel bikes and they are left with too many xc.

jehosophat

Anyone like to hazard a guess as to whether I have my two grand back yet? Despite the fifth call about it just now?

That's right - no!

The store says - can't credit over the phone for over £150, call the call centre. The call centre variously says "no problem, we'll credit you" then does nothing or asks me to call the store.

It was an internet purchase and only store collect as that is Trek's policy. I doubt it is legal for them to insist I visit the store for a refund for an online purchase for something they never had anyway!

This credit card clears the full balance monthly by DD so if this money is still on there in 10 days time, on top of the £2500 for the frame/fork I just bought, it will bounce and I will be going native in Evan's direction. This has already warrented a grumpy letter of complaint and a few very poor internet ratings, about to be done!

Shotsaway

If you are not having any luck getting your money back from Evans, try your credit card company

Consumer Credit Act (CCA) - Section 75

Under section 75 of the CCA, the credit card company is 'jointly and severally liable' for any breach of contract or misrepresentation by the company. This means it is equally responsible along with the retailer or trader for the goods or service, and you can put your claim to the credit card company.

You don't have to reach a stalemate with the retailer or trader before you can contact your credit card provider.

jehosophat

Good point, I had thought of that but well pointed out!

The saga continues though - today I got home to a voicemail from the store I was supposed to collect from (on 24th March!) saying the frame has come in!!! One day after ordering a Blur XC Carbon and fork from Stif and returning the fork I already had to CRC!!

Very very annoying as the 9.9 was originally what I wanted, but I'm not returning the Blur to Stif now (or rather refusing delivery - it won't be here until next week).

Will be back onto them again tomorrow for the credit originally promised on 25th March :roll: If no success this time I will report them to the credit card company and dispute it.

supersonic

I would write all this out in a letter to the Head Office too.