Trust carbon after a crash?

Lucky Douglas
Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
edited April 2012 in Road beginners
I had a crash on Monday - car drove into me sideways on, hitting the front wheel first and then goodness knows what. When everything had stopped moving the bike and I were on the tarmac, half under the bonnet. The driver has accepted full liability and I'm going to my lbs to work out the costs tomorrow.
Some things are obvious - bashed pedals / bars, buckled wheel etc.

I'd appreciate some advice on the frame from the forum gurus please - its a full carbon cannondale. I can't see any cracks or delamination, but can I ever trust it again? Or should I be insisting on a complete new frame? I don't want to be greedy, just get back to the pre-accident position

The lbs is a major cannondale dealer. They don't X-ray but they will give advice.
I think the car was doing about 15 mph on impact but I don't really know.

What do you think?

Comments

  • Wirral_paul
    Wirral_paul Posts: 2,476
    If its an accident claim then talk to the Dealer. If they think it could be damaged then they should quote for a new frame or arrange a proper inspection. See what they say first really.
  • p9uma
    p9uma Posts: 565
    Im glad you are ok, that must have been a fright. I would want a thorough check of the bike, by two / three qualified people. Also trust your instincts, you know the bike better than anyone, what do you think the frame is like?

    What is lbs? Local Bike Shop? Who is it?
    Trek Madone 3.5
    Whyte Coniston
    1970 Dawes Kingpin
  • Lucky Douglas
    Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
    p9uma wrote:
    Im glad you are ok, that must have been a fright. I would want a thorough check of the bike, by two / three qualified people. Also trust your instincts, you know the bike better than anyone, what do you think the frame is like?

    What is lbs? Local Bike Shop? Who is it?
    Thanks -Just flesh wounds that should clear up in 2-3 weeks. The dealer is Royles in wilmslow. It's a bit hard to judge what the frame is like I can't ride it because the front wheel is buckled and I'm all scabs and bruises. There's a few marks on it, but I think theyre less than cracks. It's really the possibility of hidden damage that's bothering me.
  • p9uma
    p9uma Posts: 565
    Lucky Douglas wrote:
    p9uma wrote:
    Im glad you are ok, that must have been a fright. I would want a thorough check of the bike, by two / three qualified people. Also trust your instincts, you know the bike better than anyone, what do you think the frame is like?

    What is lbs? Local Bike Shop? Who is it?
    Thanks -Just flesh wounds that should clear up in 2-3 weeks. The dealer is Royles in wilmslow. It's a bit hard to judge what the frame is like I can't ride it because the front wheel is buckled and I'm all scabs and bruises. There's a few marks on it, but I think theyre less than scratches. It's really the possibility of hidden damage that's bothering me.


    Aye, it would bother me too. You need to get the pro looking at it. At the risk of sounding paranoid, even if the frame is fine, there a possibility that you me not "feel the love" for that bike anymore, in which case....I have opened up a can of worms.
    Trek Madone 3.5
    Whyte Coniston
    1970 Dawes Kingpin
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    I think most carbon frame makers suggest you get the frame inspected after any big impact. there could me internal delamination that has seriously weakened the frame.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • Bozman
    Bozman Posts: 2,518
    You'll find that insurance assessors will automatically write-off any carbon parts after a crash, whatever the damage.
  • DF33
    DF33 Posts: 732
    If the ins co won't pay for a new frame then insist they accept liability if the frame fails for whatever reason in the future inc damage to your body. I doubt they will continue to stall after that.
    Peter
  • nferrar
    nferrar Posts: 2,511
    If you're already claiming for the wheel etc. then yeah I'd claim for the frame to as you'll probably never completely trust it again. I had a slow-speed over-the-bonnet incident a couple of years back but only ended up with a scratched lever and slightly buckled wheel so didn't bother claiming for anything but as you're already going through that hassle you may as well get it sorted properly, it's not like you're scamming for whiplash compensation you just want your bike how it should be.
  • Zoomer37
    Zoomer37 Posts: 725
    I cracked a carbon frame last year and had it fixed and ride it almost everyday. The crack was around the headset too and as you can see by my avatar I still have most of my teeth.

    People freak out when carbon gets damaged, but like any other material it can be fixed.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Carbon is a great material but it's not designed to be driven into sideways.
    Yes it can be repaired but if there's no obvious damage - how can you do that.

    How are you pursuing your claim ? By yourself ? Against professionals ?
    I'd go straight to bikeline and get them onto it. Then you won't need to be coming on here asking for help - they have the experience as they do it all the time. You don't want to get ripped off.
  • racingcondor
    racingcondor Posts: 1,434
    I'm with Cougie, carbon isn't fragile but a side on impact is about as far from what it's designed for as you can get. I'm not sure I'd want to do 50 on a bike that's been run over even if it looked fine.

    Fixing it is great if it's a cheap way to repare damage that's your fault but if the shops recommendation is to get a new frame then I wouldn't hesitate. It's what insurance is for after all.

    Heal well and I hope the driver remains co-operative when they've seen the bill and had time to thing about their no claims.
  • rpd_steve
    rpd_steve Posts: 361
    I work at a motorsports team and we have a composites shop and do a lot of manufacture and repair for carbon parts for anything from Formula Renault and F3 to a Trek Madone on Wednesday with a split down tube. Carbon is often mistrusted after a crash as it is much less understood by most people that metals, and failure can seem to come from nout. If there is damage IT CAN BE REPAIRED! And it will be as good as new. We have even done a complete BB shell/seat tube/stays etc and then stress tested it to BS after just to check the repair method and it out-lasted a new frame. (We did this for sado engineers 'fun'.) By the time they are re-painted the repair is undetectable if done with pre-preg and if we match the carbon weave.

    That said, like others said, press for the insurance company to replace it. If there is obious damage, it can be sorted. If there is not, take a £1 coin and carefully tap the frame over the entire surface in a methodical way, paying particular attention to jointa and bottle cage holes. Any damage will return a dull thud sound where good carbon will return a range of solid 'dink' sounds.

    If in doubt get in touch and I will happily give you a hand in judging damage.
  • andrewjoseph
    andrewjoseph Posts: 2,165
    RPD Steve wrote:
    ... If there is not, take a £1 coin and carefully tap the frame over the entire surface in a methodical way, paying particular attention to jointa and bottle cage holes. Any damage will return a dull thud sound where good carbon will return a range of solid 'dink' sounds.

    If in doubt get in touch and I will happily give you a hand in judging damage.

    this is good info, didn't know this testing method. Can it be any £1 coin or does it have to be specific? :twisted:

    The concern for me has been the uncertainty about unseen damage, this may help to resolve that.
    --
    Burls Ti Tourer for Tarmac, Saracen aluminium full suss for trails
  • rpd_steve
    rpd_steve Posts: 361
    It must be one where the Queen has a necklace on or it wont work :-P

    Any damage that you cant tell the differance in sound is so minute to not worry about. The sound change is where the resin has shattered so you are tapping on 'soft' fibers and bits of resin. Its also best to remember that CFRP does not just suddenly fail like a Al tube would. It will have a crack form that is detectible with the tap test first, then ot will grow, the frame will feel floppy then it may fail - so if your worried check it after each ride until your satisfied that there isnt any small crack that is growing.
  • Lucky Douglas
    Lucky Douglas Posts: 155
    RPD Steve wrote:
    I work at a motorsports team and we have a composites shop and do a lot of manufacture and repair for carbon parts for anything from Formula Renault and F3 to a Trek Madone on Wednesday with a split down tube. Carbon is often mistrusted after a crash as it is much less understood by most people that metals, and failure can seem to come from nout. If there is damage IT CAN BE REPAIRED! And it will be as good as new. We have even done a complete BB shell/seat tube/stays etc and then stress tested it to BS after just to check the repair method and it out-lasted a new frame. (We did this for sado engineers 'fun'.) By the time they are re-painted the repair is undetectable if done with pre-preg and if we match the carbon weave.

    That said, like others said, press for the insurance company to replace it. If there is obious damage, it can be sorted. If there is not, take a £1 coin and carefully tap the frame over the entire surface in a methodical way, paying particular attention to jointa and bottle cage holes. Any damage will return a dull thud sound where good carbon will return a range of solid 'dink' sounds.

    If in doubt get in touch and I will happily give you a hand in judging damage.
    That's a really kind offer thanks Steve. I may take you up on it depending on how the conversation with the insurance company goes.
    Cheers.

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