Phased traffic lights for cyclists

ketsbaia

Apparently, TfL are trialling a set of phased traffic lights at Bow Roundabout so cyclists can set off slightly earlier. If successful, they could be rolled out at other major junctions around the capital.

What does the panel think? Good idea?

More here.

Paul E

That's if the drivers obey them as the do sometimes with asl's

notsoblue

I can't really comment on Bow Roundabout. But i'm not sure how much use it will be at Blackfriars. The best thing they could do there is just have proper lanes for cyclists. Phased traffic lights will just make drivers feel like they're being unnecessarily held up during periods when there are no cyclists.

Kieran_Burns

plus, how many cars do you see inadvertently drive off when a FILTER light goes green and not the main one

(conversely: how many cars do you see NOT go when their filter light goes green?)

Aidy

I've always thought that when ASLs are present the traffic lights should be rigged to have a green light for cyclists if anything's in them, followed shortly after by the rest of the sequence, and if empty, just do the normal sequence.

rjsterry

notsoblue wrote:

I can't really comment on Bow Roundabout. But i'm not sure how much use it will be at Blackfriars. The best thing they could do there is just have proper lanes for cyclists. Phased traffic lights will just make drivers feel like they're being unnecessarily held up during periods when there are no cyclists.

Yeah, if only us cyclists weren't there, you could get across zone 1 in 10 minutes :roll: Complaining about being held up when driving through central London? Boo-f***ing-hoo.

I think this is one of those things where a judgement needs to be made based on actual results of the trial, rather than preconceptions.

walkingbootweather

Can't you just fix special magnets to your bike?

jonny_trousers

I like the idea of it.

notsoblue

rjsterry wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

I can't really comment on Bow Roundabout. But i'm not sure how much use it will be at Blackfriars. The best thing they could do there is just have proper lanes for cyclists. Phased traffic lights will just make drivers feel like they're being unnecessarily held up during periods when there are no cyclists.

Yeah, if only us cyclists weren't there, you could get across zone 1 in 10 minutes :roll: Complaining about being held up when driving through central London? Boo-f***ing-hoo.

I think this is one of those things where a judgement needs to be made based on actual results of the trial, rather than preconceptions.

Just predicting the likely reaction from motorists... I use the junction going south onto Blackfriars Bridge every day and the phase isn't particularly long. I don't think adding another phase will really help slow cyclists that set off from the lights on a slight incline get to safety before the main phase releases the cars who tend to bully them into the side of the road just before they get onto the bridge. But then I've never seen cyclist phased traffic lights in action, so I could be wrong about how it works...

My point really was that this could be a significant investment from a depressingly small pot that a) would damage cyclist PR and b) wouldn't solve the problem anyway. I know a proper (wide, visible, enforced) cycle lane wouldn't be very popular either, but at least it would solve the problem.

jds_1981

I fear that as we add more complexity to our roads we're increasing distractions and potentially increasing likelihood of collisions.

SimonAH

All I can say is that coming into central london (into that one-way rats nest around Fitzrovia) by car yesterday made me truly understand how furious london drivers must be, and how much that must make them hate cyclists and their freedom! I am now no longer surprised at the road rage incidents, in fact I'd say it's amazing that there aren't daily attacks with tyre irons.

I haven't sworn so much in years.....I will never, ever, ever take a car into central London again.

rjsterry

notsoblue wrote:

rjsterry wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

I can't really comment on Bow Roundabout. But i'm not sure how much use it will be at Blackfriars. The best thing they could do there is just have proper lanes for cyclists. Phased traffic lights will just make drivers feel like they're being unnecessarily held up during periods when there are no cyclists.

Yeah, if only us cyclists weren't there, you could get across zone 1 in 10 minutes :roll: Complaining about being held up when driving through central London? Boo-f***ing-hoo.

I think this is one of those things where a judgement needs to be made based on actual results of the trial, rather than preconceptions.

Just predicting the likely reaction from motorists... I use the junction going south onto Blackfriars Bridge every day and the phase isn't particularly long. I don't think adding another phase will really help slow cyclists that set off from the lights on a slight incline get to safety before the main phase releases the cars who tend to bully them into the side of the road just before they get onto the bridge. But then I've never seen cyclist phased traffic lights in action, so I could be wrong about how it works...

My point really was that this could be a significant investment from a depressingly small pot that a) would damage cyclist PR and b) wouldn't solve the problem anyway. I know a proper (wide, visible, enforced) cycle lane wouldn't be very popular either, but at least it would solve the problem.

Sorry, didn't mean to be so ranty, and I agree that it is a very expensive way to solve a problem, and potentially not solve it very well. I think your guess of the likely reaction is probably accurate too, unfortunately.

jonny_trousers

SimonAH wrote:

All I can say is that coming into central london (into that one-way rats nest around Fitzrovia) by car yesterday made me truly understand how furious london drivers must be, and how much that must make them hate cyclists and their freedom! I am now no longer surprised at the road rage incidents, in fact I'd say it's amazing that there aren't daily attacks with tyre irons.

I haven't sworn so much in years.....I will never, ever, ever take a car into central London again.

I think that's one of the biggest issues for us cyclists: driving just isn't a pleasant thing to do. Not only does it bring out a kind of aggression in us that we couldn't imagine experiencing away from the car (how many of us would scream, "Watch where you're going, you stupid c*nt!" if someone nearly bumped into us in the supermarket? - in the car, however...), but on busy British roads it is painfully frustrating too. It's no surprise that certain motorists take ridiculous risks and get wound up over nothing (that is, of course, no excuse).

greg66_tri_v2.0

Sounds lovely. We get to pull away without motor traffic around us.

Except.

It's a bit like having an infantry charge and then having a cavalry charge a few seconds later. When the latter catches the former, there's quite a speed differential.

Kieran_Burns

Greg66 wrote:

Sounds lovely. We get to pull away without motor traffic around us.

Except.

It's a bit like having an infantry charge and then having a cavalry charge a few seconds later. When the latter catches the former, there's quite a speed differential.

Except using your analogy: there'd be another cavalry charge already bogged down in the mud 50' away.

thistle_

It might be possible to keep the timings for the main lights as they are, and have the 'bike lights' on green during the delay between the main phases (assuming the lights have a delay at this location). Then the motorised traffic wouldn't be any worse off, in theory.

If the idea is for the 'bike lights' to only go to green when there are bikes waiting, then the sensors will need to be able to detect bikes reliably.

rebs

I'm not keen on the idea. I really don't beleive it's going to make much different to Bow Roundabout. The roundabout is only dangerous when people drive dangerously.

Attitudes need to change more then roads.

Aidy

thistle (MBNW) wrote:

If the idea is for the 'bike lights' to only go to green when there are bikes waiting, then the sensors will need to be able to detect bikes reliably.

My concept (above) is that the bike lights only activate if there's something at the ASL - giving motorists an incentive to not clog it up.

EKE_38BPM

How would sensors be able to detect between a bike in an ASL and a car? If its by magnetism, would carbon fibre/aluminium/titanium bikes set them off?

I think drivers will get annoyed to see bikes setting off before them and the majority will set off when the bike light turns green.

Initialised

Just make traffic lights mean Give Way to cyclists, it's how most people treat them anyway.

Applespider

If we're going to rephase lights, I'd rather see a shorter amber when it's going to red. The number of morons who see it go amber and since they know it'll be there for a few seconds take it as a reason to speed up is ridiculous. Make it shorter especially where the speed limit is only 20 or 30 so stopping distances aren't all the great - and stop some of the 'charge for the lights'

How do phased lights work? Is there an extra little filter with a cyclist image on it like the 'cyclist' only junctions in places?

greg66_tri_v2.0

What this needs is cyclists to have Right of Way. Like in Europe.

I feel a Facebook page coming on...

daviesee

I've said it before and I'm saying it again.
You can spend as much money as you like but nothing will improve until people's attitude changes.
Lack of patience, selfishness, lack of consideration and flouting existing laws is what causes most accidents.
This idea may be good but all it will do is move driver's frustration further up the road.