Some Tubeless Questions

leaflite

Ive just bought a set of tubeless ready wheels. The rim strip and valve stem are included so I think that all I would need to buy is some sealant?

The other option is to run it tubed, with a set of maxxis ultralight tubes (125g each) that I already own. The tyres that I would like to use are standard folding high rollers(60a) and advantages(exception, 62a). Will these work tubeless?

Once the weight of the sealant has been factored in, how much weight would I realistically save? Is it worth the extra £20 it would cost me for some sealant over tubes, considering the hassle that some have reported?

Thanks

supersonic

Hardly any, a few grams. But puncture protection should be improved. However fixing it on the trail if you gash the tyre...

Mccraque

I would say yes....I love tubeless. I've reduced frequency of flats to about once a year. on the 3 occassions I've got them (in 3 years), I've stuck a tube in to get me home.

Weight wise - TR is lighter than UST - and is supersonic says..the main advantage, a little bit of weight aside, is puncture resistance. and also you can run them at lower pressure, should you wish.

VWsurfbum

Its also about the rolling speed difference!

cooldad

VWsurfbum wrote:

Its also about the rolling speed difference!

As mentioned in many other threads where this comes up - bollocks.

mrmonkfinger

cooldad wrote:

VWsurfbum wrote:

Its also about the rolling speed difference!

As mentioned in many other threads where this comes up - bollocks.

any logic behind that position, or is the word bollocks the whole argument?

devils advocate, sake of informed debate, etc.

VWsurfbum

Not Bollocks, Actual truth!
Its something to do with the tyre and the tube moving against each other or something? I'm sure some clever c*nt will be along to explain it better.
If you google it, you'll get your answer.

cooldad

If you google anal probe you'll get answers too. Doesn't mean they're any more valid.
No idea really what 'rolling speed difference' is. If you mean rolling resistance that's different. And is mainly to do with the tyre's contact patch changing, so would be effected by the flex ofthe sidewall, but I would debate whether a tube makes any difference.
As one of the arguments for tubless is to run lower pressures, this would actually increase rolling resistance.

Or something like that anyway...

IBISMojoHDamon

VWsurfbum wrote:

Not Bollocks, Actual truth!
Its something to do with the tyre and the tube moving against each other or something? I'm sure some clever c*nt will be along to explain it better.
If you google it, you'll get your answer.

+1

I can feel a difference between rolling resistance with a tube and without (running tubeless)

I didn't go tubeless for the weight saving (if there indeed is one at all) or for the option of running lower tire pressures but for the fact that it makes sense to me, just like it does for the majority of wheel / tire applications...

The wheels (IMHO) roll much better without the tube and tire fighting against each other... ;0)

simonp123

Being able to run lower pressures withoutthe risk of pinch flats is another advantage of tubless. Agreed you are a bit stuffed if you gash a sidewall, but then surely even with a tube in you are still in trouble with this secnario.

I've been running tubless for 3 years and apart from the initial hassle and the mess if you change tyres I am very happy.
If you like to swap tyres around a lot then it would not be such a good idea.

cooldad

Interesting reading and pretty much contradicts everything I said earlier

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/info/mtb-tyr ... stance.htm

cooldad

And Schwalbes take on it
http://www.schwalbetires.com/tech_info/ ... resistance

supersonic

Lower pressures with tubeless risks burping air out on hard cornering. If you lose the seal, you will never infalte them on the trail again. Something to be aware of.

Anyone got any figures for rolling resistance with tubes vs no tubes?

simonp123

supersonic wrote:

Lower pressures with tubeless risks burping air out on hard cornering. If you lose the seal, you will never infalte them on the trail again. Something to be aware of.

Anyone got any figures for rolling resistance with tubes vs no tubes?

True, never happened to me though, maybe I don't corner hard enough You can easily re-inflate with a CO2 canister, as long as you let it out after the ride and re-inflate with air the sealant will be fine.

IBISMojoHDamon

simonp123 wrote:

True, never happened to me though, maybe I don't corner hard enough You can easily re-inflate with a CO2 canister, as long as you let it out after the ride and re-inflate with air the sealant will be fine.

I'm not questioning this.... I would like to know why you would need to re-inflate with air and let out the C02 though...

simonp123

IBISMojoHDamon wrote:

simonp123 wrote:

True, never happened to me though, maybe I don't corner hard enough You can easily re-inflate with a CO2 canister, as long as you let it out after the ride and re-inflate with air the sealant will be fine.

I'm not questioning this.... I would like to know why you would need to re-inflate with air and let out the C02 though...

Basically it is because the sealant reacts with the CO2, and I believe it causes it to dry. That is what the instructions say anyway.

cooldad

You read the instructions? How weird.

IBISMojoHDamon

simonp123 wrote:

IBISMojoHDamon wrote:

simonp123 wrote:

True, never happened to me though, maybe I don't corner hard enough You can easily re-inflate with a CO2 canister, as long as you let it out after the ride and re-inflate with air the sealant will be fine.

I'm not questioning this.... I would like to know why you would need to re-inflate with air and let out the C02 though...

Basically it is because the sealant reacts with the CO2, and I believe it causes it to dry. That is what the instructions say anyway.

Good point, I could understand that! ;0)

mrmonkfinger

cooldad wrote:

Interesting reading and pretty much contradicts everything I said earlier

http://www.mtbonline.co.za/info/mtb-tyr ... stance.htm

good find

leaflite

Thanks for all the replies
Im running them tubed for the time being, but seriously considering buying some sealant and giving tubeless a go. One potential problem I have noticed-the bead on the exception advantage(rear tyre) seems very slack. It is very easy to take the tyre on and off-easier than the front high roller. If I was to go tubeless, am I likely to have issues with the tyre coming off the rim when cornering? I don't want to damage the rims!

Thanks

IBISMojoHDamon

I'd say so... yes....

If you can even get it sealed in the first place, great... but if you burp it mid ride, you sunshine are buggered....

simonp123

Yes, very slack tyres are not so good for tubeless. Schwalbe make tyres that are "tubeless ready" which are made to be a little tighter fit on the bead, though I found them not so different to Kenda's normal tyres on fit. Maybe the standard Schwalbe is a loose fit?

Beatmaker

I don't understand all this talk of burping on the trail being an issue. Surely you either use a C02 canister or tick in a tube and normal rim tape. It's about being prepared!

cloudynights

been running tubeless for nearly a year now not had a problem yet now thats not to say that i wont rip my tyres sidewall at some stage but it beats picking a puncture up every week due to thorns which is what happened using tubes, i have run wtb, schwalbe on 717 rims and they are lose on the rim but never had a problem with them coming off, the no tubes latex sticks them real good onto the rims, just go for it there great

supersonic

Beatmaker wrote:

I don't understand all this talk of burping on the trail being an issue. Surely you either use a C02 canister or tick in a tube and normal rim tape. It's about being prepared!

C02 cansisters do not seal all combos... and if I am running tubeless I don't want to be carrying a spare tube - to me it defeats the point.

IBISMojoHDamon

Beatmaker wrote:

I don't understand all this talk of burping on the trail being an issue. Surely you either use a C02 canister or tick in a tube and normal rim tape. It's about being prepared!

My mate landed heavy at Swinley today and burped the air out of his rear tire.... A few pumps of a mini pump and he was off and running... :0)

simonp123

supersonic wrote:

C02 cansisters do not seal all combos...

In this case then you would never have got the tyre to seal in the first place so it would not be an issue later. If the rapid pressure increase for a CO2 canister will not seal the tyre to the rim the it is not a suitable combination of tyre and rim for tubeless. The Stan's rims I have make initial sealing much easier and hence also re-sealing if you lose air on the trail (though it has never happened to me yet).
As long as you stick to good tyre/rim combinations the issues with tubeless are not so bad. At the end of the day, each to their own.

supersonic

Well no, it was UST, it does not get anymore suitable than that! Somethimes they just do not work, ie you have to inflate to well over 60psi to get the bead to lock - many canisters cannot reach that for large volume MTB tyres and a compressor is the only way.

simonp123

supersonic wrote:

Well no, it was UST, it does not get anymore suitable than that! Somethimes they just do not work, ie you have to inflate to well over 60psi to get the bead to lock - many canisters cannot reach that for large volume MTB tyres and a compressor is the only way.

Fair enough. I believe that UST tyres can be more tricky to get to pop in to the seal than a "normal" one running tubeless though. I would be reasonably confident though that with a non-UST tyre that if you can get the tyre to pop in when you first do it with a track pump or CO2 canister that you would be able to do it with CO2 on the trail. From my experience the sealant has glued most of the bead to the tyre anyway so most of it you don't have to get to seal if you have a small bit that has burped and you coould do this with your small pump from your pack.

As I said though everyone has their own experienecs, opinions and predjudices (which is why it important to have several different points of view on these things). Personally the benefits that I percieve more than outweigh the issues and I know that if I carry a spare innertube (not really that much trouble or weight) then I know I can get out of most situations.