What headset lower bearings do I need - replacing frame!

SiUK

Hi,

I recently managed to trash the frame of my Focus Super Bud 2008 full suspension bike. I had used it every day, clocking up A LOT of miles for commuting and on the trails, but sadly it has died. Due to a limited budget (brought about by a new addition to the family), I purchased replacement hard tail frame that was being sold on Ebay - a (Boardman Pro HT 2011-2012).

I am looking to move all the components from my Focus Supabud bike to the Boardman frame. I have ordered some Wheels Manufacturing converters for the cranks so I can run my old Hollowtech II Shimano Deore cranks on the new frame but I need some advice in sourcing the correct headset lower bearings for my Fox (32 FRL, 100mm) forks that I am looking to transfer over.

The Boardman frame came with an FSA headset but it looks like the lower headset bearings/race are not the same specification as on my old Super Bud frame as the new lower bearings seem too large to fit snugly on the Fox forks. The new lower bearings that came with the Boardman frame are marked with:-
TH INDUSTRIES 1.5 ACB 36 x 45 073# (I think these are the same as on here). Image below shows some of the new headset components:-

The lower headset bearings/race from my old Super Bud 2008 do not have any identity markings on them and they appear to be different in terms of diameter (they fit snugly round bottom of the Fox fork post) and also in the fact that I had to use a screw driver to carefully prise it out from my old frame. See image below:-


I have tried to read up on the bottom bearings to work out what I am after but am struggling to identify it. I understand there are cupped bearings and also there are also varying angles on the bearings for different frames. I am also wondering if all I am after is some kind of adaptor for the Fox forks to fit the new FSA bearing rather than purchasing a new bearing.

I have not fitted a fork onto a frame before so sourcing the correct components is a learning process for me at the moment :? . Hopefully the info I have included is enough to help find the right component, but if there is anything else I need to mention, please let me know.

Any help with this issue is much appreciated!
Many thanks,
-Si.

benpinnick

Do you still have the crown race that would have beet attached to the forks on the Boardman? If so, that will probably be a 1.5 Race. you need a hope crown race 1 1/8 > 1.5 adaptor, that will fit on the fork before fitting the crown race that came with the boardman. Once this is in place, the Boardman headset will work fine.

SiUK

Hi Ben,
Thanks for the quick reply. I purchased the Boardman frame on ebay and did not get to see the original forks that were used, but from the bike spec, I think it would have been Rock Shox Reba RL on the frame (Source: Boardman Pro Spec)

The only thing that came with the frame that went between the lower part of the frame and the forks was the TH INDUSTRIES 1.5 ACB 36 x 45 073# bearings as pictured above.

I had a look for the Hope Corwn Race 1 1/8 > 1.5 adaptor - is this the item that you were referring to:-
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/178/hs136/hope-15---1-18-reducer-crown-race.html
Is there any checks that I can do to ensure this is the correct part?

Thanks again for your quick response.
-Si.

mrmonkfinger

SiUK wrote:

I had a look for the Hope Corwn Race 1 1/8 > 1.5 adaptor - is this the item that you were referring to:-
http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/178/hs136/hope-15---1-18-reducer-crown-race.html
Is there any checks that I can do to ensure this is the correct part?

Don't think that would work then - you'd need the crown race from the fork that was in the Boardman, to go with that. It might be available as a spare if you knew what the race was.

benpinnick

You do have an issue as mrmf points out - a headset without a race is pointless. I might contact the seller on ebay to try and get the race - if it was advertised as with headset, you'd be entitled to raise a complaint/chargeback if you didn't get a race with it. If that doesnt work out, you are probably better getting a whole lower assembly instead. Without seeing the frame, but based on the bearing, I am guessing a hope pick and mix headset lower, D option with low stack would suit.

benpinnick

Alternatively, this http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/73 ... dsets.html when used in conjunction with the Hope part you've correctly identified probably sorts you out.... don't want to guarantee it though!

mrmonkfinger

benpinnick wrote:

Without seeing the frame, but based on the bearing, I am guessing a hope pick and mix headset lower, D option with low stack would suit.

I could be wrong (often am), but I think option D is for a traditional straight 1.5" head tube, straight steerer in a tapered headtube needs option E + the 1.5"->1 1/8" reducer.


SiUK can you post the inside diameter of the headtube? It should be 56mm if it is a normal tapered headtube.

benpinnick

Actually, there appears to be two versions of the doc on Hope's site - Mrmf is right, the newer version has it listed as D with the reducer. They used to do a version that had a stepdown built in (and was called D), but it seems they've abandoned that now. It looks like you need a ZS55/40 lower, with the reducer. Hope or Canecreek 40 would be my choice if you want to start again. You can mix and match top and bottom parts by the way, no need to get a matching top half.

mrmonkfinger

benpinnick wrote:

They used to do a version that had a stepdown built in (and was called D), but it seems they've abandoned that now.

I do so love it when companies do things like that...

SiUK

Hi,

Many thanks for your further responses - I will try and take some measurements tonight of the head tube. If my memory serves me right, I believe the top part of the headset should be fine as the components seem compatible with my old frame. The difference with the boardman bike is that the lower headtube gets wider at the bottom (hence the larger TH Industries bearing ring which does not fit on the fox forks) so I'm hoping that I just need to get lower components to put it right.

I took a couple more pics last night of how the old bearings used to fit compared to the new ones, you should be able to see the size difference, but obviously I need to get some measurements here:-
Original bearings (incompatible with the Boardman bike head tube):-

Boardman frame Bearings (too large for the fox forks).


I'm trying to piece together how all these components will fit together - Googling for an image of the reducer, I came across this (found here):-

...It could be the wrong reducer, but I was assuming that this should fit in to the recess in the frame but the image seems to indicate there are 'no angles' to it as with the TH industry bearings as they slot directly into the frame comfortably.

I also had a look on the Hope website and came across this headset document:-(http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/ ... 011Web.pdf) - Is the Compatible Head Tube Types section showing the various options that you are referring to (option D/E)?
If so, I will take some measurements tonight of the lower headset tube to work out what is needed, although, I'm wondering if those measurements can be determined by looking at the spec for the TH Industries bearing that came with the frame...


Thanks,
-Si.

benpinnick

The 'reducer' is in fact an 'expander; it doesnt gon in the frame per se. What it does is make the steerer on your forks the same size as the steerer on the old boardman forks (which were tapered). In your second pucture, the black crown race you see under the bearing would come off, then you put on the expander, and then you fit a new crown race over the top of that. They really confuse matters by calling it a reducer. Once 'expanded' your forks will then be able to take a 1.5 crown race. You could either source on on its own (the FSA one I posted a link too) or get a whole new bottom assembly that fits the frame and takes a 1.5 steerer, as this will come with a crown race.

Heres a quick diagram....

mrmonkfinger

SiUK wrote:

I also had a look on the Hope website and came across this headset document:-(http://www.hopetech.com/webtop/modules/ ... 011Web.pdf) - Is the Compatible Head Tube Types section showing the various options that you are referring to (option D/E)?
If so, I will take some measurements tonight of the lower headset tube to work out what is needed, although, I'm wondering if those measurements can be determined by looking at the spec for the TH Industries bearing that came with the frame...

Yes, in that Hope brochure, you're looking at the exact right section. Your Boardman will (99% certain) have the "tapered/E2" tube. A quick measurement will confirm. This means you need "option E" (which fits the headtube, but is too big for your current fork without a widget) and the HS136 reducer (which is the widget that adapts your fork to fit "option E").

You'll probably have to knock out the existing lower headset from the Boardman. Shame the seller didn't include the crown race. That would really be the easiest route, if you could get that from them. Or find out what exact type of headset is fitted.

SiUK

Perfect - Many thanks for the diagram Ben - that has helped a lot! I had a look into how to replace Race online and came across this article - although a very quick examination last night made me doubt if it can actually come off, although I'm sure it will after getting proper moment with it with a few tools!

I'll double check the lower headset tube part of the frame as I thought there was no internal headset to 'knock out' as such - it appeared that the bearings just went into the frame (integrated headset?) but again, I will look closer tonight at that and let you know how I get on.

Many thanks again for your quick and helpful replies on this issue - much appreciated!

mrmonkfinger

SiUK wrote:

a very quick examination last night made me doubt if it can actually come off

They're often a VERY tight fit.

SiUK wrote:

I'll double check the lower headset tube part of the frame as I thought there was no internal headset to 'knock out' as such - it appeared that the bearings just went into the frame (integrated headset?) but again, I will look closer tonight at that and let you know how I get on.

This was certainly done (see "integrated" in that hope brochue) for some bikes with smaller 1 1/8" steerer tubes. Not sure if there is a tapered headtube like that though.

Again, it will just be pressed in, so remove it with "a suitable drift".

benpinnick

You'll see at the back of the forks there is a small notch under the race. Using a screw driver, and with the forks upside down and on a piece of wood (to stop you mangling the top of the steerer), you need to tap the underside of the race with a hammer on the end of a screwdriver (positioned in the gap) to lift it a little from the fork crown. Once you have a mm or so gap, you should be able to slip the screwdriver under the race and begin prising it up a little going round the race repeatedly. It will be stiff though, so you'll need to just take care but hit it pretty hard to get it going. Once you get around 3mm gap all the way round, a final, good solid tap on the underside of the race should release it fully.

nicklouse

benpinnick wrote:

You'll see at the back of the forks there is a small notch under the race. Using a screw driver, and with the forks upside down and on a piece of wood (to stop you mangling the top of the steerer), you need to tap the underside of the race with a hammer on the end of a screwdriver (positioned in the gap) to lift it a little from the fork crown. Once you have a mm or so gap, you should be able to slip the screwdriver under the race and begin prising it up a little going round the race repeatedly. It will be stiff though, so you'll need to just take care but hit it pretty hard to get it going. Once you get around 3mm gap all the way round, a final, good solid tap on the underside of the race should release it fully.

And if there is no notch ave a look in the FAQs.

benpinnick

I did some research - this race: http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/73 ... dsets.html fits your FSA bearing (and therefore headset one would assume). Its £4.95 + the expander reducer too. Worth a punt I would say.

benpinnick

Even Better - They also do this: http://www.ukbikestore.co.uk/product/14 ... eerer.html which converts the 1 1/8 of your steerer directly to 1.5! Bingo! Unfortunately its out of stock at UK bikestore, but the part number is H6079 I believe.

SiUK

Hi,

Thanks again for your further responses, I will order a selection of parts shortly and let you know what I finally went for!

Just to update you, I measured the headtube up last night - the OUTSIDE diameter of the lower headtube was around 56mm:-

...the INSIDE diameter is therefore around 52mm seeing as the frame thickness is around 2mm (either side).

Intrestingly, looking at the frame headtube - there appears to be no inserts at all - it is just frame where the lower bearings go in:-


The top head OUTSIDE tube diameter is approx 56mm and for reference, a quick profile pic of the headtube is here:-



Removing the Race Crown
A quick attempt with a screwdriver last night following Ben's advice didn't go too well as I think this is going to be a job when I have more time to ensure the forks are secured and protected a little better (rather than holding with my knees!). I had a quick look through the manuals and online for removing the race crown on the fox forks and didn't come up with anything, but this online post suggests removing it with a stanley knife or similar blade and screwdriver as there are no indents on Fox forks for the crown race as with the Rock Shox forks.

Thanks,
-Si.

mrmonkfinger

Well the bearing itself is a #73, 51.8mm OD, 40mm ID. I guess Boardman have bonded a suitable cup into the frame.

The second crown race ben linked should fit it. Bit difficult to check over the internet though. Probably worth a £5 to try.


Shame the ebay seller didn't include the race

benpinnick

Good luck with a stanley blade! That will snap in an instant. I find that a wood chisel is actually a good bet, as the very thin end to the wedge can allow you to lie the forks on the ground (on something that wont scratch them!) and go in horizontally (flat side on the crown) and prise up the race a little at a time. Park do a great crown race removal tool - pity its £200.

Don't worry too much about scratching the forks on the way. The damage is cosmetic and wont cause them to snap in half or anything like that.

SiUK

Just to update, I ended up placing an order yesterday for the following:-
-Hope 1.5" - 1 1/8" Reducer crown race
-FSA 1.5" Lower Crown Race for Integrated
-FSA Xtreme Pro 1.5R crown race H6059
There are two different crown race's there but it should give me a spare part to play with if needed.

I should be fitting these one evening next week and I will update with the results!

Thanks for your help.
-Si.