The problem with test rides (and reviews)

andy_welch

I've been test riding bikes and reading every review I can find to help inform the next purchase. However, while they are better than nothing I'm not finding either that useful. The problem is the ease with which you can transform the feel of a bike. Even on a good test ride your options for swapping things like bars, stems etc are quite limited and these things can transform the feel of a bike (before we even think about longer forks, slacksets etc).

With so many options in the shops it's tempting to focus on tiny differences in feel between different bikes and forget that you actually have lots of options to tune any bike to better suit your needs.

With magazine (and user) reviews I often read criticisms and find myself thinking "OK, but you could fix that easy enough with a ...".

Fun though it is to compare all the shiny options I think there is still a lot to be said for just buying a decent bike and getting out there and riding the damn thing.

Cheers,

Andy

njee20

I've not had a proper demo on any of the last 6 MTBs I've bought. Two of which I'd never even seen until mine turned up. Not had a duff one yet. There aren't many really bad bikes out there.

simonp123

Yes, having been there recently I can sympathise with you. If you have no immediate intention to change anything then a test-ride will tell you what you need to know, but if you intend to alter anything then it is of limited use.
If the bike you test-ride had the forks and shock the same as the model you want then it will tell you quite a bit as you can determine how the suspension behaves on the trail, but if not then you can only tell size weight and geometry things.
One Trance I tried behaved like a mattress as the rear shock had no pro-prdal whereas the one with it felt like a differen bike to pedal.

I don't really know how my Trance will behave on my wheels, forks bars and stem. All I know is that the genral feel and fit of the Trance farme was good, and it was pretty easy to pop up over obstacles, so the weight distribution was good.

.blitz

The problem with test rides and reviews is that we are all different. Some people are very adaptable and can ride anything but other people need the bike to be 'just so' before they can get the best out of it.

cat_with_no_tail

I'd say the best thing about a (proper) test ride is that you can get a feel for the size and shape of the bike and how the suspension system performs.

Assuming you've got the time to adjust everything to your preferred settings, you can get a feel for how well the suspension system reacts to your particular riding style and position (talking more about FS than HT there).

Test rides also help those people who are inbetween sizes and could probably get along with either a M or a L for example. Lets them try both side-by-side to compare.

If you test a bike and think "It could be perfect with XYZ changes" it can go on the shortlist. The one with the least changes / compromises wins. Simple.

bluechair84

Reviews tend to say 'oh it needs wder bars / shorter stem / grippier tyres' and then mark the bike down. there could be a 'potentiometer' where the potential for the bike to become is graded along side the bike as it is bought. But then, cost would have to be factored in... and then maybe the brands awareness of riders needs/trends. And individual preferences... at the end of the day, it seems impossible to change the system other than to remove it and have people read the review and take away from it what they will - as Singletrack do. I think I prefer their style of reviewing than MBUKs - especially the 'persona' which again could be changed with a few parts swaps.

andy_welch

I guess the problem is also my adaptability (as well as that of the bike). To be honest I've never been that sensitive to bike setup (apart from saddle height) and it's always a bit of a compromise between lots of factors (comfort, speed, stability etc) anyway for me. So it's not so much a case of finding a bike that feels right as they all tend to feel OK. It's more a case of "yes, that feels fine. I could live with that, but I wonder if X or Y would be even better" and once you start down that road it never ends

Cheers,

Andy

IBISMojoHDamon

njee20 wrote:

I've not had a proper demo on any of the last 6 MTBs I've bought. Two of which I'd never even seen until mine turned up. Not had a duff one yet. There aren't many really bad bikes out there.

Agree with this...

Ibis Mojo HD - Never test rode - Bought it
Intense Uzzi - Never test rode - Bought it
Intense 6.6 - Test rode - Loved it - Bought it
Titus Motolite - Test rode - Loved it - Didn't buy one (they went bust)
Yeti 575 - Test rode - Hated it, still bought one
Yeti 4X - Never even knew what it looked like - Never test rode it - Bought it
Yeti ARC Titanium - Never test rode it - Bought it
Yeti Lawwill DH8 - Never test rode it - Bought it
Yeti ARC - Never test rode it - Bought it
Yeti Straight 6 - Never test rode it - Bought it
Yeti Lawwill - Test rode it at Alexander Palace - Never bought it
Yeti ARC AS LT - Never test rode it - Bought it

The Titus Motolite I had on a two week trial, I loved it. The dealer said that I could do what I wanted to do with it so I stripped it down to frame only and built it up with all the stuff from my Yeti ARC Titanium... I loved it, it rode really well, brilliant bike... I was going to order a Titus Motolite Exogrid, then they bought out the FTM Exogrid, reduced the travel and the importer changed, a few months later Titus went pop until they were bought by OnOne and I thought.... Nahhh!

andy_welch

simonp123 wrote:

One Trance I tried behaved like a mattress as the rear shock had no pro-prdal whereas the one with it felt like a differen bike to pedal.

How long did you try it for? This is another problem I've found with test rides. The first ride I had on a Trance X2 I was convinced that pro pedal was essential and I'd never buy a Giant without it. But after a few days of testing, getting used to the feel and doing some timed climbs, which showed that, while the feel was different the times hardly changed, I found myself not bothering to switch it on and am now contemplating an Anthem X2 29er, which doesn't have pro pedal.

Cheers

Andy

andy_welch

IBISMojoHDamon wrote:

Yeti 575 - Test rode - Hated it, still bought one

Ok, I'll bite, why did you buy it if you hated it?

Cheers

Andy

IBISMojoHDamon

andy_welch wrote:

IBISMojoHDamon wrote:

Yeti 575 - Test rode - Hated it, still bought one

Ok, I'll bite, why did you buy it if you hated it?

Cheers

Andy

For the same reasons you mention in your original post...
The magazines raved about it... I test rode a large, I needed an XL, the suspension was too soft (front and back) the bars were too narrow, it had Shitmano flappy paddle brake levers, it had flats rather than SPD's... It was just a crock of sh*t to be honest.... But I saw past the test ride and bought it, set it up for me and rode it and grew to love it... I probably would of ridden a rocking horse with Yeti written on it at the time, used to love Yeti until they went all carbon rear ends and other reasons that I won't go into as I'll open a can of worms... ;0)

simonp123

andy_welch wrote:

simonp123 wrote:

One Trance I tried behaved like a mattress as the rear shock had no pro-prdal whereas the one with it felt like a differen bike to pedal.

How long did you try it for? This is another problem I've found with test rides. The first ride I had on a Trance X2 I was convinced that pro pedal was essential and I'd never buy a Giant without it. But after a few days of testing, getting used to the feel and doing some timed climbs, which showed that, while the feel was different the times hardly changed, I found myself not bothering to switch it on and am now contemplating an Anthem X2 29er, which doesn't have pro pedal.

Cheers

Andy

Not very long, but I suspect as I have been used to the custom tuned Pro Pedal platform in my Float R I noticed it more. You are right though you do develop a smooth pedalling style with time which helps a lot.

andy_welch

IBISMojoHDamon wrote:

For the same reasons you mention in your original post...
The magazines raved about it... I test rode a large, I needed an XL, the suspension was too soft (front and back) the bars were too narrow, it had Shitmano flappy paddle brake levers, it had flats rather than SPD's... It was just a crock of sh*t to be honest.... But I saw past the test ride and bought it, set it up for me and rode it and grew to love it... I probably would have ridden a rocking horse with Yeti written on it at the time, used to love Yeti until they went all carbon rear ends and other reasons that I won't go into as I'll open a can of worms... ;0)

Fair enough. You knew you liked them.

I've got three Principia road bikes (from about 10 years ago, when they were still being made in Denmark). All were bought as frames (unseen) online, but I love them all. Mind you that probably has something to do with the fact that, as a physicist, I just like riding a Principia with Isaac forks and a deda Newton stem. Out buying decisions aren't always (or ever) totally rational I guess.

Cheers,

Andy

andy_welch

simonp123 wrote:

Not very long, but I suspect as I have been used to the custom tuned Pro Pedal platform in my Float R I noticed it more. You are right though you do develop a smooth pedalling style with time which helps a lot.

In my case it wasn't really a case of adapting my pdealling (I don't think), just a case of getting used to the feel. But then, this was my first ride of a full suss bike, so it was bound to feel a bit strange (and more natural with the rear "locked out").

Cheers,

Andy

simonp123

andy_welch wrote:

simonp123 wrote:

Not very long, but I suspect as I have been used to the custom tuned Pro Pedal platform in my Float R I noticed it more. You are right though you do develop a smooth pedalling style with time which helps a lot.

In my case it wasn't really a case of adapting my pdealling (I don't think), just a case of getting used to the feel. But then, this was my first ride of a full suss bike, so it was bound to feel a bit strange (and more natural with the rear "locked out").

Cheers,

Andy

I definitely had a "bouncy" way of pedalling when I first switched to full suss. Gone now, I think it helped my riding genreally to be honest, much smoother power delivery.

bluechair84

IBISMojoHDamon wrote:

Yeti Straight 6 - Never test rode it - Bought it

Please tell me your thoughts on this bike! It was my dream bike in my teens (10 years ago) and now I'm a man with earnings, there are none to purchase, even if just for retro nostalgia. I did find one a few years back but it looked like it had been thoroughly abused. I've never ridden one and to this day still want one...

IBISMojoHDamon

Please don't buy one.... ever!..... It looked awesome then, it looks awesome now (especially with the Hed Carbon Yellow rims) but it just doesn't ride for anything other than DH... and then it's so bad compared to what is available now... 6" at the time was huge... the 35lb+ weight was just not good for anything but descending as the geometry was so relaxed and the thing rode like a tank...
You can see them on Ebay every now and again but the 1" 1/8 head-tube used to flare and the swing arms were prone to cracking as were the seat tubes... The issue was the aluminum going soft and brittle...

bluechair84

lalalalalalalalalalalalala




#heads off to ebay...#

Anonymous

Reviews - pinch of salt when it comes to their opinions. Current MBUK bashes the carbon 456 especially for stiffness, yet I don't agree with the review at all based on mine. I'm loving it way more than I expected given it was just going to be a build as a spare bike for a little casual hard tail use.

Always a selection of reviews of the same models across the board and from a wide selection of sources, customer opinions, friends opinions, etc.

Even then you may not have the same opinion.

Test rides, two things:

1. Ride it, really love it? Buy it.

Forget about anything else, you love it, so that's the bike.

2. Not sure and want to compare different models and makes, then going to have to compare like with like components. Very difficult.

Demo days are perhaps a better option as they may have a selection of models of the same and different brands possibly with the same kit.

Otherwise, find what you like, even if a change of component may make the one you didn't like better, if case 1 above still applies, buy it.

Or procrastinate further. I usually do that and never end up buying anything. When I got the Nomad it really was a shock for me, tried it, loved it, bought it on the spot. Though the deal was a major factor

andy_welch

There are three good options here. All of which strike a chord with me

deadkenny wrote:

1. Ride it, really love it? Buy it.

Forget about anything else, you love it, so that's the bike.

So, test rode the Trance over the tracks that I like to ride and loved it. So, job done right? Just buy the thing. The only problem is that it's the only full suss bike I've ridden and I'm comparing it to a 20 year old fully rigid steel Rockhopper. Maybe anything would seem good compared to that. Maybe something else would be even better. But does that really matter? I loved the Trance, maybe I should just stop looking.

2. Not sure and want to compare different models and makes, then going to have to compare like with like components. Very difficult.

Yes. I can get a sort of demo of an Anthem X 29er on Monday. But only round the car park and it's the X2 model so components and shocks are a good step down from those on the Trance X2 that I loved. How much is that test really going to tell me.

Or procrastinate further. I usually do that and never end up buying anything. When I got the Nomad it really was a shock for me, tried it, loved it, bought it on the spot. Though the deal was a major factor

Another good option I should be able to get a proper demo of an Anthem X1 29er in a month or so. But that's a month when I can't ride a new bike. Will I really remember the details of how the Trance felt by then to make a proper comparison? If I carry on riding the old rigid Rockhopper round the trails in the mean time I may be fitter and have a few more basic skills by then as well, making any detailed comparison even harder. And to complicate matters further there is a 15% off sale at the shop this weekend. Speaking to the guys about my options if I delay the decision it sounds as though I could still wangle a discount although the Anthem X 29er is in demand so they wont want to move much and it's more likely to be 5-10%, probably as discounted accessories.

Cheers,

Andy

bluechair84

You could also go out on a local shop ride and whilst you're riding around, get chatting to people about their bikes and why they chose them. Ask if they would mind a five minute swap so you can get a feel for what is available and their differences. You could get a feel for a dozen bikes and get real user feed back. I'd be happy to swap my rig with someone hoping to make an informed decision. Of course, you'd want an Ellsworth afterwards though, they're just like riding Kiera Knightly... I imagine...

The Spiderman

njee20 wrote:

I've not had a proper demo on any of the last 6 MTBs I've bought. Two of which I'd never even seen until mine turned up. Not had a duff one yet. There aren't many really bad bikes out there.

Much the same here.Bought my XTC,off the internet,Anthem was bought secondhand.
Both great bikes.If they hadn`t had been right I could have sold either for waht I paid for it anyway so nothing lost.....

It`s funny how quickly you adapt to a new bike too.My XTC is a medium and the Anthem is a large.When you first get on one after riding the other you think this feels weird,but in a few minutes you adapt and just ride it.

simonp123

andy_welch wrote:

So, test rode the Trance over the tracks that I like to ride and loved it. So, job done right? Just buy the thing. The only problem is that it's the only full suss bike I've ridden and I'm comparing it to a 20 year old fully rigid steel Rockhopper. Maybe anything would seem good compared to that. Maybe something else would be even better. But does that really matter? I loved the Trance, maybe I should just stop looking.

Well, tricky, but at the end of the day if you loved riding the Trance, if you don't ride anything else does it really matter if you are having fun? After a month you won't remember much I would think, so comparison will be tricky. When I rode the Anthem I thought it felt fantastic way better than my Stumpy, but then when I rode my Stumpy it felt just as good. I hadn't ridden for 5 weeks before so the Anthem just felt great regardless.

Can you not just arrange to car park test the Anthem and a Trance at the same time to compare the basic feel?

andy_welch

simonp123 wrote:

Well, tricky, but at the end of the day if you loved riding the Trance, if you don't ride anything else does it really matter if you are having fun?

Good point. I think I am guilty of over-analysing this. Why do I want a new bike? Especially a mountain bike (after all these years of purely road riding)? Basically it's because I took the old Rockhopper around the trails and realised how much fun it is to get away from the traffic, how many great places there are to ride on my doorstep, but also how uncomfortable the rigid Rockhopper is on anything other than a very smooth trail. So, I just want a bike that will let me ride more interesting trails and will be comfortable (and fun). The Trance does tick all those boxes.

Can you not just arrange to car park test the Anthem and a Trance at the same time to compare the basic feel?

Possibly. There is a large Trance in the shop at the moment. However, the earliest they can get the Anthem is Monday and it is their 15% off weekend, so the Trance may have gone. Also, I'm really not sure what I can learn from a car park test anyway. I had the Trance for 4 days, so on one day I did some testing on the road to see what I could tell and if I'm honest the truth was, not much. It felt fine, but unless I point it down a trail I can't really tell whether I'm going to be comfortable riding it down the same stuff that I tackled on the Trance, which is my main concern with the more race oriented Anthem.

The problem is that it's very easy to set up a test to validate a decision that you've already made but almost impossible to do a proper "scientific" study. By which I mean; if deep down you know that you want bike X then you can arrange a short test, which you'll almost certainly enjoy. Then you will feel a bit better about spending your money because you did a test first. But in reality there was hardly any chance of the test doing anything other than confirm a decision that you'd already made. If you really wanted to set up a test to determine the best bike from the mass of options it would be very hard.

If you can't make up your mind between two bikes then a test can also help you make that decision, but that's probably all it's doing i.e. it doesn't really tell you which bike would be better but it makes it easier for you to pick one and feel happy with your decision.

Cheers,

Andy

Anonymous

andy_welch wrote:

Yes. I can get a sort of demo of an Anthem X 29er on Monday. But only round the car park and it's the X2 model so components and shocks are a good step down from those on the Trance X2 that I loved. How much is that test really going to tell me.

Yeah, that's the problem. A ride round the shop floor or car park really tells you nothing other than maybe it's the right fit.

Sometimes that's the only option though and many just take the gamble. I did that with the GT in eagerness just to get my first full sus bike. Turned out I really liked it anyway. Moved on as my riding style has progressed and gone for a slacker AM bike for the stuff I tend to do now. This time round I wanted to try it on trails I know. I'm lucky in that I have a number of bike shops near trails near me that will let you take them out for a proper demo, or they do shop rides with the offer of shop bikes for hire and some are bikes I may be interested in.

Could take a longer trek to a good trail centre with a shop nearby or on site that will demo bikes.

Still, when I built my 456, I had no idea how it rides, not much option to demo, just I wanted the fun of building it and see what it's like. I love it. I just made sure the geometry spec was right based on what I've already ridden.

.blitz

The problem with test rides is that virtually any new bike feels good. No-one is interested in a new bike that's worse than the bike they already have so a new bike always feels good. A ride round the carpark or along the pavement is meaningless; even a day on your favourite trails is not enough to know for sure

The best you can hope for is to find something that feels 'right' immediately. If it feels like a big old gate or it makes you feel like a bear on a tricycle it won't get any better.

simonp123

The other thing is, without being rude, as you are just starting out on the full sussers are you really going to notice the subtle differences between models when test riding? I suspect the 29er will feel quite different, but unless there is some massive geometry difference a similar travel bike (with similar suspension) form a different manufacturer will feel quite similar. I would doubt you will notce things like chainstay length etc.

My choice was a little easier as lots of bikes were out as they weren't available frame only. Though to be honest the choice limitation was as much about what bikes you could find locally to look at anyway.

If you are not sure what you will wnat to ride then the Trance will give you more options as it will cope with bigger hits, cope with small jumps etc. If you want to ride smoother faster things then the Anthem 29er will be a bit quicker, and roll over some of the bigger lumpy bits.

Ryan Jones

Judging by how one years award winning bike can be next years also-ran I'd say it's fair enough to assume that most bikes you get, from a reputable manufacturer, will be good. One might not strictly be the best bike in a group test but frankly I can't recall anything from the known names being slated aside from having poor specification, however you don't need a test ride to know that.

Never test rode my current bike, felt awful when I got it until the shorter stem and wider bars went on transforming it completely

andy_welch

simonp123 wrote:

The other thing is, without being rude, as you are just starting out on the full sussers are you really going to notice the subtle differences between models when test riding?

Not rude at all; a very fair point. I very much doubt that I have the experience to spot the differences between similar bikes and almost certainly couldn't translate how a bike felt in a car park to how it felt on a trail. I suspect that I could probably tell that the Anthem 29er and Trance felt different if I rode them back to back but am becoming less convinced that I could tell which one was better. Or even whether that's possible. It seems more likely that one would be better in one area and the other in another.

If you are not sure what you will wnat to ride then the Trance will give you more options as it will cope with bigger hits, cope with small jumps etc. If you want to ride smoother faster things then the Anthem 29er will be a bit quicker, and roll over some of the bigger lumpy bits.

Yes, I'm coming to this conclusion as well. I suspect that the Anthem is the better choice for what I'm riding now (just nice tame XC trails), but the Trance would probably be the better option if I do decide that I want to tackle more challenging routes.

Cheers,

Andy

andy_welch

Ryan Jones wrote:

Judging by how one years award winning bike can be next years also-ran I'd say it's fair enough to assume that most bikes you get, from a reputable manufacturer, will be good. One might not strictly be the best bike in a group test but frankly I can't recall anything from the known names being slated aside from having poor specification, however you don't need a test ride to know that.

Never test rode my current bike, felt awful when I got it until the shorter stem and wider bars went on transforming it completely

Yes, good points. There is a lot to be said for just buying a decent bike and enjoying it. As you say, the ride can be transformed with a few simple tweaks anyway.

Cheers,

Andy

simonp123

Well, having mostly finished my build on a Trance X frame I took it out for a quick spin round the estate (front mech not sorted so granny ring only ) and with my bits and a different rear shock to the ones I test rode, I can say that it felt a completely different bike to any of the test ride ones! Much sharper turn, no real pedalling bob, felt lighter (well it is by about 4lbs!).

Based on that I would say you really need to test ride the exact model that you would be looking at buying.