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Cancellara tactics MSR

tarmacprotarmacpro Posts: 18
edited March 2012 in Pro race
What did everyone make of Cancellaras tactics on Saturday. Was he right to go full gas on the run in to the finish and let Gerrans sit on his wheel when he surely knew he would be beaten in the sprint. I think he should have eased up and maybe let the group come back together and then attack them in the final 1 or 2k. I can understand if he thought he would ride Gerrans off his wheel but when he saw this wasnt happening surely he should have said im not carrying you to the finish???

Posts

  • ProssPross Posts: 26,050
    It's about the only tactic he has and it takes a strong rider to sit on his wheel.
  • senojsenoj Posts: 213
    I think he was on a hiding to nothing,he would probably of lost the sprint if he had rejoined the pack.
    They know him inside out, the only chance he had was to time trial them off his wheel and on this occasion Gerrans was to strong.He sat up in the Paris Roubiax last year with a similar situation,still come second mind.
    300k and to lose by a foot.
  • mfinmfin Posts: 6,724
    I think his tactics were pretty good, nearly paid off, Nibali turned out to have nothing left and Gerrans openly admitted he was nearly losing Canc's back wheel on the final descent. If Canc had opened up a gap, he would have been likely to hold it or ride away more, but it didn't happen like that on the day.

    Seems like a lot of discussion on the boards here over it, in the end, FC did come second, which isnt bad?!

    Gerrans also did a good job of keeping hold of his wheel on that descent, something I don't hear many crediting him for?
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Its Sagan I feel sorry for. Nibali tried to get away and failed and despite the fact that he knew he was cooked, he didn't signal as much and allow Sagan a free hand. He would have closed the gap easily (as shown by the fact that he kept accidentally distancing the pursuing pack) and would have won the sprint hands down.

    I think Liquigas screwed up. Firing Nibali off the front cost them the MSR.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • Yellow PerilYellow Peril Posts: 4,466
    It was the right tactic because it was the only tactic.

    Unfortunately in riding the way that he has to there will always be the possibility of Cancellara towing someone else to victory. Occassionally it works out for him, remember a couple of years ago at P-R when Boonen got caught napping at the back of a group and Canc did a rideaway? (the infamous motorised bike year). He may consider fitting rear view mirrors as a result of this years MSR or last years RVV.

    Ultimately, although it doesn't pay the rent, I think Fab attracts more respect from the informed cycling public from the way he rides than any other current rider (cue ear bashing from Thor and Boonen fans) so being a gutsy runner up isn't all that bad.
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  • rozzer32rozzer32 Posts: 3,437
    It was Fabians only tactic and he did it well. But one time he is just going to have to sit up and say to the others if you want to win this race then grow a pair of balls and ride for the win. He needs to show people that he isn't just going to ride to the line and drag others with him. He needs to show them that he is prepared to lose a race if the others can't be bothered to work. I know a bike rider never wants to lose a race but if it shows other people that he won't do all the work then I think it will work to his advantage.
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  • thamacdaddythamacdaddy Posts: 590
    The descent was awesome and although we all know nibali has that in the locker I wasn't so sure Gerrans did.

    Canc had less chances to win from the bunch so like others I can't see what he did wrong. Inevitably everyone knows what he is going to do pretty much by now but that doesn't make it easier to beat him if he is in top form.

    Victim of his own success perhaps but without a strong sprint in him against some of the others that occupy the same sort of classics style riding then I am not so sure what options he is to try.
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 53,381 Lives Here
    Radioshack need the points.

    Had 4 or 5 been on his wheel he wouldn't have continued.

    He'd rather take his chances and get a podium for sure.
  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    There's no way he could have ridden away from that big bunch if he had left it till they had got down the hill, he's brutally strong, but you can't ride away from a pack of 25-30 riders if they don't want you to, not in the last couple of k. So his choice was probably right, he is good at going down hill, and probably didn't bank on Gerrans holding him.

    It looks like he will win some TT's this year though. Also when it comes to the classics with some of those short sharp hills where he can use power to beat people it will be interesting, as on a short hill of 15% or so if he goes for it, then I doubt many can live with it. He also has a knack of being able to bash it straight into 53/12 at the crest of a hill and keep going at warp speed.
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  • inkyfingersinkyfingers Posts: 4,400
    okgo wrote:
    There's no way he could have ridden away from that big bunch if he had left it till they had got down the hill, he's brutally strong, but you can't ride away from a pack of 25-30 riders if they don't want you to, not in the last couple of k. So his choice was probably right, he is good at going down hill, and probably didn't bank on Gerrans holding him.

    If my memory serves me correctly Cancellara did exactly that in a tour stage a few years ago (2007 I think). Generally though, you'd say it's impossible or at least highly unikely.
    "I have a lovely photo of a Camargue horse but will not post it now" (Frenchfighter - July 2013)
  • tailwindhometailwindhome Posts: 16,062
    Cancellara's strategy was to spot the right break and 'gap' them on the descent. Had he put 8-10 seconds into Gerrans on the descent, he would have won MSR. He didn't, Gerrans hung on and there was no way he was getting dropped on the smooth flat road to the finish.

    When the descent was finished Cancnellara had the option to sit up. If he had done this the break would have been caught. The 'all in' approach guaranteed a podium spot. So it was his only choice.



    With regard to Liquigas I don't think they did make a hash of it. The logic of Nibs attack seems sound. I reckon Sagan was supposed to close the gap on the descent. Cancellaras strength was their undoing.
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  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,659
    Do you reckon he could have won in a two up sprint with Nibs?

    Maybe he was expecting/hoping a bunch of Hoogerland types to follow him, when he turned round and saw Gerrans his heart must have sunk a bit...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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  • okgookgo Posts: 4,368
    ddraver wrote:
    Do you reckon he could have won in a two up sprint with Nibs?

    Maybe he was expecting/hoping a bunch of Hoogerland types to follow him, when he turned round and saw Gerrans his heart must have sunk a bit...


    He has a decent sprint on him, he came in the top 5 in the worlds didn't he? He'd out-sprint most people. And he wasn't exactly blown away by the aussie, even though he'd just done 5 mins on the front at warp speed!
    Blog on my first and now second season of proper riding/racing - www.firstseasonracing.com
  • graeme_s-2graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    I think the tactics he employed gave him his best (only) chance of a victory. He could have stopped Gerrans winning by sitting up, but that would have ensured that he didn't win either. If he'd managed to get a gap on Gerrans on the descent then we'd all be hailing him for being the great rider that he is. As pointed out above, he very nearly did drop Gerrans on the descent.

    In terms of sitting up, given that both Nibali and Gerrans had team mates who were chasing and would have been strong in a bunch sprint then surely there's no real incentive for them to work.
  • graeme_s-2graeme_s-2 Posts: 3,382
    okgo wrote:
    He has a decent sprint on him, he came in the top 5 in the worlds didn't he? He'd out-sprint most people. And he wasn't exactly blown away by the aussie, even though he'd just done 5 mins on the front at warp speed!

    He lost out in a photo finish for 3rd with Greipel and ended up 4th I think, so yeah, a pretty good sprint.
  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 24,532
    His problem isn't what he does in any specific race, it's what he does in a series of races. There is no mystery to him.
    If he has form in a race such as Strade Bianchi or E3, he'll show it to its full extent, there will be no bluffing, no doing just enough. He ensures that when the big races come around, he's not a marked man, he's the marked man.
    Then when he gets to races he rides similarly unmysterious manner (partly due for want of a better team). Everyone knows that he's going to attack, preferably from quite a long way out and then ride as hard as he can to the finish, regardless of who is with him. If you know how someone is going to 'play' it's so much easier to beat them.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • With regard to Liquigas I don't think they did make a hash of it. The logic of Nibs attack seems sound. I reckon Sagan was supposed to close the gap on the descent. Cancellaras strength was their undoing.

    I don't think Liquigas made a harsh of it, Nibali was riding well the week before, so deserved a chance. And I don't think Sagan was expected to get across on the descent, think he was there if the leaders were caught, with very strict insturctions not to chase after what happened on stage 4 of Tirreno Adriatico.

    But as I said on another thread, I think it would have been better for Nibali not to attack at all, everyone was waiting for his attack, so by not attacking everyone else has then missed then best moment to go. The gap at the top of the Poggio would have been less and then you have Nibali as another rider to bring back any attacks, setting up the sprint for Sagan. But there you go, that's hindsight for you!
  • Graeme_S wrote:
    okgo wrote:
    He has a decent sprint on him, he came in the top 5 in the worlds didn't he? He'd out-sprint most people. And he wasn't exactly blown away by the aussie, even though he'd just done 5 mins on the front at warp speed!

    He lost out in a photo finish for 3rd with Greipel and ended up 4th I think, so yeah, a pretty good sprint.

    He also got 2nd in an 8 man sprint at last year's MSR.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,659
    ^It was a genuine question btw...
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
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  • tarmacprotarmacpro Posts: 18
    I cant remember how Cancellara won MSR in 2008...did he solo to that win or how did it unfold?
  • tarmacpro wrote:
    I cant remember how Cancellara won MSR in 2008...did he solo to that win or how did it unfold?

    Much the same as Tchmil did in '99. :wink:
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    It was all relatively simple. A friend of mine picked this up at side of road in San Remo

    tumblr_m15cvc5x811qcn3m5
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • ddraverddraver Posts: 21,659
    :D Very good Iain!! :D
    We're in danger of confusing passion with incompetence
    - @ddraver
  • The way I see it, he could have either finish on the podium from the three of them by time trialling his way to the finish or stay in the group and finish behind four or five of the spinters that were present, Oscar Freire, Gerrans, Ballan and Sagan had at least two teammates and Boonen had one team mate as well to lead him out, Cancellara only had Bennati. You also need to remember that all the names mentioned above are better sprinters than him. The only thing that i would criticize is that he wasnt fast enough on the decsent, going round the corners he wasn't quick as he can be at times, I think he was trying to open a gap from the group but keep Nibali with him for a bit to share the work, but when He saw Nibali struggling he should have dropped him.
  • ratsbeyfusratsbeyfus Posts: 2,841
    iainf72 wrote:
    It was all relatively simple.

    You genius! :D


    I had one of them red bikes but I don't any more. Sad face.

    @ratsbey
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