Cut my loses or stick to my principles?

FoldingJoe

OK,

Recently bought a second pair of second-hand Look Keo Classics. Mainly because I already have a pair and have the axle removal tool so that I can service them.

When they turned up I noticed straight away that neither of the pedals had the same axle part that the removal tool attaches to, and not only that, but both pedals had totally different ones!! WTF...

Anyway, I contacted the seller to ask for a refund (paid £25), to which his constant reply was that he would only refund me £23, as he needed to recoup the cost of postage, and that the pedals were in working order, so he wouldn't give a full refund.

After many PM's trying to get him to understand that one of the main reasons I bought them was that I could service them, and I couldn't care if they were in "working order" at the moment, I decided to leave it to PayPal to resolve.

So, decided to open a dispute in PayPal, only to be given an automatic message that I couldn't dispute the payment as it wasn't for Goods and Services (as per usual everybody asks for Paypal Gift).

So, what would you do?

If I send them back and accept the £23, it will leave me about £6 out of pocket if you take into consideration the paypal gift fee, and the cost of posting back to him. Not a great deal, but I am a man of principle, would you:

Contact Paypal and try and get them to open a dispute for a PayPal gift or accept the offer of £23 refund.

Cheers,
FJ

cooldad

Why is it the sellers problem? You bought and got a set of working pedals - the contents of your toolbox is not his problem.
I'd say he's being very reasonable. And with gift Paypal aren't interested - it's a gift.
Moral is if you want Paypal protection, pay as goods and pay the fees.

kelsen

I don't know how the PayPal Gift thing works, or the fees associated with it, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the seller wants to recoup his postage costs. Presumably it's a private seller and the pedals are as described, so why should they be out of pocket just because you changed your mind? Even mail order companies are entitled to recoup the cost of postage for returned goods although a lot don't out of goodwill. The fact that you're being offered a partial refund is more than fair in my opinion.

rjsterry

+1 A £2 charge for you not checking the spec seems pretty reasonable unless you specifically raised the issue before purchasing.

FoldingJoe

Why is it the sellers problem? :roll: Sorry mate, but you're obviously as deluded as he is...

OK, so I sell you a Ferrari, but it's got a Vauxhall Corsa engine in it...it still works, but I'm sure you wouldn't be best pleased!!

FoldingJoe

kelsen wrote:

I don't know how the PayPal Gift thing works, or the fees associated with it, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the seller wants to recoup his postage costs. Presumably it's a private seller and the pedals are as described, so why should they be out of pocket just because you changed your mind? Even mail order companies are entitled to recoup the cost of postage for returned goods although a lot don't out of goodwill. The fact that you're being offered a partial refund is more than fair in my opinion.

How can they be as described - he said they were Look Keo Classic pedals, and to which I would expect that they would have the same axles as a set of Look Keo Classics I'd go and buy in the shop, no? They don't, so to me, they are not Look Keo Classics!!

cooldad

er boo hoo?
So what are they then? To you.
With your attitude I would just tell you to fark off.

HebdenBiker

Take the refund offered, suck up the small loss and move on. You may be in the right but if you have a seller who won't budge, and Paypal aren't interested, there isn't a lot you can do. Make sure you send the pedals back using a tracked/signed for service too.

I've been buying and selling on Ebay for years without many problems. I've learned not to personalise minor disputes. If it's really important to you to get satisfaction from this, you can always leave the seller neutral feedback. I think negative feedback would be unfair in this instance.

kelsen

Ok, you're being confusing. Are they Look Keo Classics or not? Your original post implies they are Look Keo Classics with a different axle type. Now you're saying they're not Look Keo Classics. Or are you saying they're Look Keo Classics but the seller switched the axles?

rjsterry

FoldingJoe wrote:

kelsen wrote:

I don't know how the PayPal Gift thing works, or the fees associated with it, but it doesn't seem unreasonable that the seller wants to recoup his postage costs. Presumably it's a private seller and the pedals are as described, so why should they be out of pocket just because you changed your mind? Even mail order companies are entitled to recoup the cost of postage for returned goods although a lot don't out of goodwill. The fact that you're being offered a partial refund is more than fair in my opinion.

How can they be as described - he said they were Look Keo Classic pedals, and to which I would expect that they would have the same axles as a set of Look Keo Classics I'd go and buy in the shop, no? They don't, so to me, they are not Look Keo Classics!!

Don't get upset just because we weren't as sympathetic as you hoped. I don't know enough about Look Keo Classics, but is it possible that there is more than one model. I can't tell from the info you've posted whether they are Look Keo Classics, but with some slight difference in one small (but crucial) part, or in fact, some other pedal entirely.

jonny_trousers

This highlights the problem of paypal gift as a method of payment: it's lose/lose for the buyer in that you pay the fees, but you get none of the protection. Personally next time I buy something here I will offer to pay the seller's fees, but will want to do a regular paypal goods purchase.

In your particular case there's nothing much you can do. If he's sold you something that is not as advertised then by all means slag him off in the forums, complain to the mods if you want, but don't expect any help from paypal. I actually think his offer is reasonable enough. Chalk it up as a cheap lesson.

Stone Glider

IME whenever someone says "It's a matter of principle", it is , usually, a matter of money

desweller

Are they Look Keo Classics or not?

Just because they have a different axle to the one you were expecting does not mean they are not Keo Classics; it may just mean they're a different revision. Manufacturers rarely use the same parts in their products for their production lifetimes.

FoldingJoe

They are look Keo Classics, but the axles are different, in BOTH pedals, so the left axle isn't the same as the right one, which to my mind indicates that they have been altered from original.

And as far as I am aware they have not changed the axle on the Keo Classics.

This is the axle that I have on my current pair and look nothing like the axles on either pedal I bought.

http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/look-keo-classic-cromo-axle-assembly-prod23304/

Anyhow, taken on some impartial balanced advice (i.e. I don't have a foot to stand on in PayPal eyes) and asked the seller to refund me the £23. :oops:

Lesson learned!!

Cheers,
FJ

dhope

FoldingJoe wrote:

Anyhow, taken on some impartial balanced advice (i.e. I don't have a foot to stand on in PayPal eyes) and asked the seller to refund me the £23. :oops:

Lesson learned!!

Cheers,
FJ

Yup, gifts great for avoiding extra seller fees. You've just found the catch.

Kieran_Burns

As stated by several people above - you've now learned that you get what you pay for. You didn't pay for the protection Paypal offers you and you didn't get it.

Learn the lesson, take the partial refund (you're lucky to get it tbh) and NEVER EVER USE PAYPAL GIFT OPTION.

If any seller suggests it, walk away as you WILL get scammed.

Ben6899

Kieran_Burns wrote:

As stated by several people above - you've now learned that you get what you pay for. You didn't pay for the protection Paypal offers you and you didn't get it.

Learn the lesson, take the partial refund (you're lucky to get it tbh) and NEVER EVER USE PAYPAL GIFT OPTION.

If any seller suggests it, walk away as you WILL get scammed.

Someone tried to scam me, once. So I went to the little f***er's house.

The part I had bought from him was still on the car when I turned up. It was pissing down with rain. Anyway, I sat in the kitchen with his mum - drinking tea and eating biscuits - as he struggled on his back, in the rain, removing seized bolts with a cheap socket set.

Then I drove home with the part.

Result.