First 25m TT

markos1963

Any tips for my first ever 25TT? Have done a couple of seasons riding 10's both club and open but obviously a 25 is a different beast. How much for a warm up, race pace, training for it etc?

I'm a low 25m 10TT rider and my race is at the end of April, ideally I'd like to get near to 1h 10m but realistically just want to get under 1h15m

dru

I'm doing my first 25 at the end of the month but have done 3 in either 4ups or 2ups.

pace yourself and you will be fine.

Presumeably you are able to be in the aero position for 60 minutes or so?

xscreamsuk

I did a 2 up a couple of weeks ago, first time either of us had done any TT. Both on standard road bikes, bit windy but was pleased with 1 hr 11. I used HR to monitor my effort, staying at around 90 % ish of max for the majority. Took longer turns when mate was tired.

Have now bought aero bars, suspect will make a great difference, stayed on the drops for the first one. Have now got the bug and even ordered club skin suit!

markos1963

The aero position is a bit of a worry as I can hold it for a 10 ok but have been struggling on 1 hour tempo rides to hold it. The biggest problem is my neck, it starts to lock up! Annoying as I have been doing lots of stretches and core exercises to help me with the position this season but forgot about my neck!

danlikesbikes

Take it easy if its your first & remember to enjoy yourself.

Warm up should be steady and progressive and if you can do 10-15 minutes before hand you should be OK.

Don't worry about the position as it one of those things you can train for by doing simulated rides on a turbo/rollers but your neck will only get stronger as you progress.

Good luck for your TT!

TommyEss

My quickest 10 is only mid 27 and I managed 1h10 for the 25 - you'll be fine, but pace yourself - steady for the first 10 minutes to calm your nerves, then see how you are and ramp it up a bit! Hard push near the end!!

Mike67

Going by your 10 time I should think you'll easily get under 1hr10 for the 25. (assuming it's fairly flat and there's no horrendous wind that is).

I can manage a 1hr8 odd over a very similar course to our club 10 (more laps) which I've only managed a 26 on.
For a while, for some strange reason my 25 speed was actually faster than my 10...I'm guessing that's down to lack of warming up which has less effect over the course of a 25.

I prefer 25s to 10s, it's almost like you can settle into a better rhythm on the longer course. I do have to stop my mind drifting off into thoughts of dinner etc though

RoadMeridaBen

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Take it easy if its your first & remember to enjoy yourself.

Warm up should be steady and progressive and if you can do 10-15 minutes before hand you should be OK.

Don't worry about the position as it one of those things you can train for by doing simulated rides on a turbo/rollers but your neck will only get stronger as you progress.

Good luck for your TT!

I never bother with a warm up, cycle from the HQ to the start line and its ready for action! :P

simon_e

The advice I was given was that, if you can pace a 10 properly (i.e. not feel like collapsing after 4 miles because you went off too hard) then for a 25 you start at the same pace but not 'wick it up' until later. As long as you have some reasonable miles in you it really isn't any harder, just longer.

In the end the best way to find out is to do it. It's not much more than an hour of riding, we can all manage that. Once you've done one you know whether you faded or held back too much and had some left at the finish.

dru

RoadMeridaBen wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Take it easy if its your first & remember to enjoy yourself.

Warm up should be steady and progressive and if you can do 10-15 minutes before hand you should be OK.

Don't worry about the position as it one of those things you can train for by doing simulated rides on a turbo/rollers but your neck will only get stronger as you progress.

Good luck for your TT!

I never bother with a warm up, cycle from the HQ to the start line and its ready for action! :P

So on the 2up at resolven on Sunday you did a 153m warmup? seriously

RoadMeridaBen

Dru wrote:

RoadMeridaBen wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Take it easy if its your first & remember to enjoy yourself.

Warm up should be steady and progressive and if you can do 10-15 minutes before hand you should be OK.

Don't worry about the position as it one of those things you can train for by doing simulated rides on a turbo/rollers but your neck will only get stronger as you progress.

Good luck for your TT!

I never bother with a warm up, cycle from the HQ to the start line and its ready for action! :P

So on the 2up at resolven on Sunday you did a 153m warmup? seriously

Thats exactly what I did, we were off at 10:30 so we left the car at 10:20 odd and waited for the start :P

danowat

Warmup seems to be a bit of a grey area, some people swear by them, others don't, 10's and 25's, I'll do a 20min warmup if I have time, but I've done both on none, and its never made a negative impact, infact, my 10 PB was done without a warmup (was very late to the startline!)

A 25 is not that much of a different beast to a 10, some people can ride a 25 like a 10, basically as hard as they can, but for most people pacing is key, you can get away with going out too hard on a 10 and just hang on till the end, but 20 odd miles is a long way to hang on for.

Aim to worry that your first mile or two are too slow, they aren't, it will just feel like it, then pick up the pace, ignore the HRM or watch, all it does it make you lose focus IME.

Comfort is also important, especially saddle IME!!!!

I assume you are planning on the VCN B25/4?, if so, its a very good course to do a first TT on, I could give you some specific course tips if you like.

You'll piss 1hr 15, I did my first on the B25/4 and did 1:00:54

markos1963

danowat wrote:

Warmup seems to be a bit of a grey area, some people swear by them, others don't, 10's and 25's, I'll do a 20min warmup if I have time, but I've done both on none, and its never made a negative impact, infact, my 10 PB was done without a warmup (was very late to the startline!)

A 25 is not that much of a different beast to a 10, some people can ride a 25 like a 10, basically as hard as they can, but for most people pacing is key, you can get away with going out too hard on a 10 and just hang on till the end, but 20 odd miles is a long way to hang on for.

Aim to worry that your first mile or two are too slow, they aren't, it will just feel like it, then pick up the pace, ignore the HRM or watch, all it does it make you lose focus IME.

Comfort is also important, especially saddle IME!!!!

I assume you are planning on the VCN B25/4?, if so, its a very good course to do a first TT on, I could give you some specific course tips if you like.

You'll wee-wee 1hr 15, I did my first on the B25/4 and did 1:00:54

Thanks Dan, yep spot on with the VCN 25. I think the main worries for me are pacing and comfort. As it's my first 25 and so early in the season I was worried about blowing up too early. Also finding my position difficult with my neck a big worry. Went out today for a tempo ride and it wasn't as bad but still difficult. I might consider raising the bars a touch just to help a bit, sacrificing a bit of speed to allow me to last longer.

RoadMeridaBen

My first 25 my pacing was a bit off, finished with a 01:04:58 and was too fresh at the finish.
Did the same course a week later and knocked 4 minutes off, with a bit more experience 25's arent a problem
to pace, I prefer 25's anyway! :P

danowat

First mile or so is downhill, so you can afford to take it easy, just don't go out too fast and you'lll be fine.

As for comfort, thats something you'll just have to play with, I am higher at the front compared to many riders simply because I feel faster when I am comfortable, and find that being lower not only affects comfort, but it also affects my power.

Mark Alexander

Dru wrote:

RoadMeridaBen wrote:

Danlikesbikes wrote:

Take it easy if its your first & remember to enjoy yourself.

Warm up should be steady and progressive and if you can do 10-15 minutes before hand you should be OK.

Don't worry about the position as it one of those things you can train for by doing simulated rides on a turbo/rollers but your neck will only get stronger as you progress.

Good luck for your TT!

I never bother with a warm up, cycle from the HQ to the start line and its ready for action! :P

So on the 2up at resolven on Sunday you did a 153m warmup? seriously

153m? wow i thought it was at most 152! I warmed up on the old road (off the course, turned up with my partner 3 min before, 1min tactics chat, started and did the total opposite to the plan. Hanibal: "I love it when a plan falls apart".

peejay78

i don't tend to do much of a warm-up. i ride up and down the road a few times, maybe dig in a bit on one hill just to make my heartrate rise so it's not a total shock when i start riding.

25s are similar to tens, and the advice on pacing above is sound - don't go off too hard. having said that, i tend to ignore this advice and go out of the blocks like a startled cat. you have to remember that the aim is essentially to be riding for one hour - and that's about the time you can ride at or on your lactic threshhold, so it's going to hurt.

your time will vary enormously depending on the course. i've ridden the u18 early this season and did a short 57, at the end of last season i rode the mythical r25 and managed a short 52. i'm aiming for a sub 51 this year, more generally i'm about 3 minutes quicker on each of the 4 hilly time trials i've done so far. these are great prep for 25s because they are about that distance but with really punishing lumps in the middle.

xscreamsuk

Going to be having a go at some local tens next month, they are on a flatish course which is about 12 miles away. Should I ride there, one significant hill on the way, or drive and do a bit of a warm up?

TommyEss

I and a number of others ride that kind of distance to 10s, and it seems to be a pretty good warm up. We then normally have a TTT on the way home, which is as dangerous as it is fun!!

RoadMeridaBen

peejay78 wrote:

i don't tend to do much of a warm-up. i ride up and down the road a few times, maybe dig in a bit on one hill just to make my heartrate rise so it's not a total shock when i start riding.

25s are similar to tens, and the advice on pacing above is sound - don't go off too hard. having said that, i tend to ignore this advice and go out of the blocks like a startled cat. you have to remember that the aim is essentially to be riding for one hour - and that's about the time you can ride at or on your lactic threshhold, so it's going to hurt.

your time will vary enormously depending on the course. i've ridden the u18 early this season and did a short 57, at the end of last season i rode the mythical r25 and managed a short 52. i'm aiming for a sub 51 this year, more generally i'm about 3 minutes quicker on each of the 4 hilly time trials i've done so far. these are great prep for 25s because they are about that distance but with really punishing lumps in the middle.

Are you going to do the R25/3 in a few weeks? lucky for me I only live about 20 miles from the place so not much travelling

nferrar

I always preferred 25's, on 10's I found I had to be outside of my 'comfort' zone (relative term ) to set a decent time whereas on a 25 I could just stay around threshold and wind it up for the last couple of miles if I felt I had anything left. Main issue I had was trying to keep focus and not just let your speed drop without realising it (I only used a speedo to judge by rather than HRM/power, although they would have been more useful if I'd had them available).
For your first 25 I'd just go out and ride it and not worry about your time at all, worst case you finish with plenty left in you and a slow time but you'll have learnt something and be able to beat your PB next time so it's all good.
I never used to warm-up either, used to thing any energy spent before would be energy I can't spend during but I didn't have a clue about what warm-ups actually did physiologically, if I was still TTing now I'm sure I'd experiment with them (especially before a 10).

markos1963

Well it was the big day today and how did it go?
Well it went sh!t, Got to the first roundabout(200yards) and a car decided to do a uturn without signalling, I had to take evasive action but with my brakes on hard and me passing over gravel there was only one result, a front end washout and a long long slide down the road. Car driver speeds off into the unknown and I'm left lying dazed and confused on the road. Luckily I'm not too badly hurt and the bike is relatively ok. So I'm yet to complete a 25TT and I have the Little Mountain TT to race next week.

Johnpsanderson

Personally I work off HR and a 'lactate threshold' figure that I worked out through observation (and finally got verified through some lab testing). Having an idea where you are distance-wise is a good thing - i don't have a speedo on my bike but try to understand how far to go to help pace myself for the effort at the end of the race...

For a 10 I usually try to ride within 165-173 bpm - having found 171 or thereabouts to be my relevant threshold for 10 miles. For the last 3 or 4 minutes i'll let my HR go as high as I can get it - on the basis I can just cling on to that level of effort and it doesn't matter that I can't recover from it.

When i've ridden 25's i've just backed a few bpm off that - so tried to ride around 163-168 bpm - then tried my best to smash at something closer to 10 miles pace for the last 2 or 3 miles - knowing the end is in sight...

markos1963

Well, what with the weather and work etc it's taken until today for me to complete my first 25'. So how did I do? 1hr 5m 30s is the answer and I am a very pleased bunny. Nothing great in the grand scheme of things but at least it's done now and out of the way. The interesting thing was I actually felt stronger and in more control than riding a 10, is this the case for others?

BeaconRuth

A lot faster than my first ever 25! Well done!

Ruth

danowat

markos1963 wrote:

Well, what with the weather and work etc it's taken until today for me to complete my first 25'. So how did I do? 1hr 5m 30s is the answer and I am a very pleased bunny. Nothing great in the grand scheme of things but at least it's done now and out of the way. The interesting thing was I actually felt stronger and in more control than riding a 10, is this the case for others?

Good stuff.

I find 10's hard to ride, at least a 25 (and above) gives you a bit of time to get into a good rhythm.

SBezza

danowat wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Well, what with the weather and work etc it's taken until today for me to complete my first 25'. So how did I do? 1hr 5m 30s is the answer and I am a very pleased bunny. Nothing great in the grand scheme of things but at least it's done now and out of the way. The interesting thing was I actually felt stronger and in more control than riding a 10, is this the case for others?

Good stuff.

I find 10's hard to ride, at least a 25 (and above) gives you a bit of time to get into a good rhythm.

I am normally the same, but after riding the 1st 20 mins of a 25 at 10 effort at the weekend, think a 10 would have been easier, doing another 15-16 miles at just below 25 mile effort was not pleasent in the slightest, especially when you try to raise the effort again

danowat

SBezza wrote:

danowat wrote:

markos1963 wrote:

Well, what with the weather and work etc it's taken until today for me to complete my first 25'. So how did I do? 1hr 5m 30s is the answer and I am a very pleased bunny. Nothing great in the grand scheme of things but at least it's done now and out of the way. The interesting thing was I actually felt stronger and in more control than riding a 10, is this the case for others?

Good stuff.

I find 10's hard to ride, at least a 25 (and above) gives you a bit of time to get into a good rhythm.

I am normally the same, but after riding the 1st 20 mins of a 25 at 10 effort at the weekend, think a 10 would have been easier, doing another 15-16 miles at just below 25 mile effort was not pleasent in the slightest, especially when you try to raise the effort again

Yeah, I know a lot of people who say they can ride a 25 like a 10, I can't, I've made some boo-boo's, did the first 25 of a 50 way too hard, hung on for 25 miles, which wasn't pleasant, worse one was riding the first 40 miles of a 100 at over 50 pace, and hanging on for 60 miles!, I've learnt from my mistakes

SBezza

I can't ride a 25 like a 10 either LOL, this weekend showed that, it was only a training race though and I did get a course PB as a solo rider so not all bad.

okgo

I find a longer effort easier to pace too.

I actually did more watts on a 25 recently that I've ever done for a ten. Its annoying.