Good time to by a SAAB??

bartman100

I'm considering buying a SAAB, looking at a 9-3 or 9-5 no older than an 08 plate I think. Would have to be a TDI, possibly a convertible though need room for a bike!

Any experiences from other owners? I'm keen on Safety (which I know they are good at) and economy (not so sure). Also, I guess they may devalue having just gone bust so I guess a plus maybe a cheap deal but a minus could be sourcing parts and repairs.

Cheers!

RideOnTime

bartman100 wrote:

I'm keen on Safety
Economy (not so sure).

yes, excellent on safety.
economy well yes there's the compromise - all that saftey stuff adds weight...

Yossie

We are Saab lovers here at Casa Yossie - they are well cool.

Check out which one you want: they went from being bomb proof and fantastically well made (they clunked when you closed the door, that sort of thing) and the turbo ones went like stink to being a bit tinny: Mrs Yossie's parents are also fans and they used to complain that Yossie's Mother in Law's one was so much better than Yossie's Father in Laws' one - his was well tinny (it was one of the cabrio 9-3 jobs, she had the older saloon - I think a 9-5). It ended up in a ditch though, so that put paid to that.

If you can get either a) one of the latest at a bargain price or b) one of the slightly older non tinny, ones, snap it up in a n instant - Scaindinavian coolness, bombproof engines, go like stink, well comfy. MPG ain't the greatest as above though ……...

Safety - well, its Scandinavian isn't it: no worries at all there.

Oh, how I laugh at the memory of the day Victoria (aka Mrs Y) drove through the hedge in the £35k 2.8 V6 twin turbo job we were test driving ………..

bartman100

Saab 9-3 1.9 Tid (120 bhp) seems to be pretty comparable to my current Seat Leon 110bhp Diesel at 52.3mpg combined

Edit - thanks Yossie, what you think of the model above then? Assuming I go for no older than 08 plate?

pitchshifter

My dad has a 93 Aero convertible (55), you wouldn't get a bike in it... Nice car, although not sure if its because its convertible or not but the interior plastics creak abit which would annoy me if I drove it everyday.

CambsNewbie

Parts won't be a problem. They are basically a Vauxhall/Opel underneath and I believe the guy who ran SAAB UK has set up a parts supply company for SAABs. And remember most of the parts werent actually manufactured by SAAB, they were just put together by them.

If you are buying from an 08 plate onwards where-ever you buy from should be able to put some kind of warranty on it or there are plenty of companies out there who will sell you a warranty.

Personally I think the 9-3 estates look good with plenty of that all important bike carrying space!

bartman100

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

CambsNewbie

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

Jez mon

CambsNewbie wrote:

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

Having said that, wasn't one of the problems with SAAB that they deviated too far from the original design, i.e. rather than just stick different badges on a Vauxhaul, they did lots of their own development, which although resulting in good vehicles, resulted in expensive, and less profitable ones.

CambsNewbie

Jez mon wrote:

CambsNewbie wrote:

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

Having said that, wasn't one of the problems with SAAB that they deviated too far from the original design, i.e. rather than just stick different badges on a Vauxhaul, they did lots of their own development, which although resulting in good vehicles, resulted in expensive, and less profitable ones.

From what I have read in the motoring press (I'm a bit of a car nut.. Don't shoot me!) it seems to have been the opposite. General Motors bought Saab when the market started going 'premium', around the same time Ford bought Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin (since sold again!). However General Motors made Saab use the Cavalier then Vectra chassis which was never a good start for a car, but wouldn't give them enough money to make it 'Saab' enough, or to development new models. Then when Saab was in serious trouble, General Motors blocked any rescue deal involving any Chinese companies as they didn't want them getting hold of the new Insignia chassis.

daviesee

Yossie wrote:

Safety - well, its Scandinavian isn't it: no worries at all there.

Oh, how I laugh at the memory of the day Victoria (aka Mrs Y) drove through the hedge in the £35k 2.8 V6 twin turbo job we were test driving ………..

Is it just me that sees the contradiction in there :?:

i guess you lived to laugh about it but driving through hedges isn't the best example of safety IMHO.

Monkeypump

daviesee wrote:

Yossie wrote:

Safety - well, its Scandinavian isn't it: no worries at all there.

Oh, how I laugh at the memory of the day Victoria (aka Mrs Y) drove through the hedge in the £35k 2.8 V6 twin turbo job we were test driving ………..

Is it just me that sees the contradiction in there :?:

i guess you lived to laugh about it but driving through hedges isn't the best example of safety IMHO.

Cars don't drive themselves through hedges...

daviesee

Monkeypump wrote:

[Cars don't drive themselves through hedges...

Quite correct. A stationary car is fairly safe.
That said, my wife's car made a bit of a dent in a lampost all on it's own when she left the handbrake off.

CambsNewbie

Cars don't drive themselves through hedges...[/quote]

Well you say that.. As we are on a Saab theme, apparently the early turbo models had such horrendous torque steer that when you accelerated hard and held the wheel straight, the cars could pull violently to the left, requiring a degree of right lock just to stay in a straight line!!

bartman100

CambsNewbie wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

CambsNewbie wrote:

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

Having said that, wasn't one of the problems with SAAB that they deviated too far from the original design, i.e. rather than just stick different badges on a Vauxhaul, they did lots of their own development, which although resulting in good vehicles, resulted in expensive, and less profitable ones.

From what I have read in the motoring press (I'm a bit of a car nut.. Don't shoot me!) it seems to have been the opposite. General Motors bought Saab when the market started going 'premium', around the same time Ford bought Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin (since sold again!). However General Motors made Saab use the Cavalier then Vectra chassis which was never a good start for a car, but wouldn't give them enough money to make it 'Saab' enough, or to development new models. Then when Saab was in serious trouble, General Motors blocked any rescue deal involving any Chinese companies as they didn't want them getting hold of the new Insignia chassis.

A recent Top Gear that I err, stumbled across would seem to support the theory that SAAB ignored GM's directives and budget as far as R&D was concerned and went ahead and made cars in their own image.
This begs the question: The 08-Present models we see on the roads today, to what degree are they Vauxhall's as opposed to 'thoroughbred' SAAB's?

CambsNewbie

bartman100 wrote:

CambsNewbie wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

CambsNewbie wrote:

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

Having said that, wasn't one of the problems with SAAB that they deviated too far from the original design, i.e. rather than just stick different badges on a Vauxhaul, they did lots of their own development, which although resulting in good vehicles, resulted in expensive, and less profitable ones.

From what I have read in the motoring press (I'm a bit of a car nut.. Don't shoot me!) it seems to have been the opposite. General Motors bought Saab when the market started going 'premium', around the same time Ford bought Volvo, Land Rover and Aston Martin (since sold again!). However General Motors made Saab use the Cavalier then Vectra chassis which was never a good start for a car, but wouldn't give them enough money to make it 'Saab' enough, or to development new models. Then when Saab was in serious trouble, General Motors blocked any rescue deal involving any Chinese companies as they didn't want them getting hold of the new Insignia chassis.

A recent Top Gear that I err, stumbled across would seem to support the theory that SAAB ignored GM's directives and budget as far as R&D was concerned and went ahead and made cars in their own image.
This begs the question: The 08-Present models we see on the roads today, to what degree are they Vauxhall's as opposed to 'thoroughbred' SAAB's?

What you will see and touch will be 'Saab'. Once you start looking closely some of the parts might have GM stamped on them or Opel.

At the end of the day, if you see a Saab you like the look of and are happy with the deal then go for it.

seataltea

Despite my username I own two Saabs, a 9-3 estate and a 9-3 Convertible, both are the 1.8t engine which is the wisest choice for a private buyer.

Unless you do large mileages the diesel is false economy, the 1.8t is actually a badge engineered 2.0 turbo but with different software and for a few hundred quid you can have 195-220hp and it will still get 40mpg on a run and 28mpg around town. Service costs are lower for the petrol, it is utterly reliable (no EGR problems) and cheaper to buy in the first place because everyone thinks diesels are cheaper to live with.

I am, sadly to some, involved in the Saab community and visited Sweden last year where I rallied Saabs in the Arctic Circle, drank lots of vodka and ate reindeer, the warmth and hospitality of the Saab employees and the people of Sweden was fantastic. This trip alone has made me a Saab customer for life *

They are great cars and a great company, production is currently suspended whilst bids for a new owner are assessed by the Swedish receiver, there are some large car companies (BMW, Mahindra, Tata and the Chinese) offering to buy them with hundreds of millions of Euros on the table. Future production is very likely if one of the bids is accepted and parts supply is assured even if it doesn't *under Swedish legislation (have to still produce parts for 10yrs when production stops).

Despite what you would think values haven't plummeted and some models have become hard to find as customers have bought cars fearing they wouldn't be able to get hold of a Saab again.

A 1.8t Convertible Vector Sport or a Linear SE plus TX Pack (carbon fibre interior and upgraded wheels) with a swan neck towbar and a Thule cycle carrier could be had for a very reasonable price, just factor in a Hirsch ECU upgrade to release the full potential of that turbo.

This guy always has some nice cars.

http://www.markarnold.co.uk/index.php

And new Saab owners are welcome here.

http://www.saabsunited.com/

Redhog14

Oh dear I don't want to upset anyone here but - after years of driving German I bought a 9-5 turbo. was like driving a sofa very comfortable and soporific. Turbo blew up spectacularily at around 50K miles, not good, water pump failed shortly after also had several electric glitches. Chassis was made of cheese I think otherwise I can't imagine why it was so wobbly and it ate front tyres. That said it looked beautiful and was extremely spacious. Shame really, my old man owned a 70's 99 which later becam the 900 series so I was harking after the different design. I would say it is NOT a good time to buy a SAAB if they have just gone pop.
Back to driving German I'm afraid, must have done well over 250K miles in BMW's, never let me down once, that said the Auto gearbox in my 320d is very rough (sourced via General Motors! - recurring theme).

t4tomo

If you want something swedish you can fit a bike in, then surely a Volvo estate is the way to go.

Yossie

daviesee wrote:

Yossie wrote:

Safety - well, its Scandinavian isn't it: no worries at all there.

Oh, how I laugh at the memory of the day Victoria (aka Mrs Y) drove through the hedge in the £35k 2.8 V6 twin turbo job we were test driving ………..

Is it just me that sees the contradiction in there :?:

i guess you lived to laugh about it but driving through hedges isn't the best example of safety IMHO.

The safety of the car isn't anything to do with the ability of the driver albeit one may get tested more than most dependant on the other.

Then again, as I'm so scared of Victoria (aka Mrs Y), we'll let her off anything. Even crashing the car into the wall opposite the house. Again. And crashing the car into the wall opposite her parking space in an underground car park, then getting out after putting it drive instead of park and having to chase after . And ripping the good bike off the top of the car using an underground car park. Booooom went the EC90 'bars, stem, seat post, Dura Ace shifters…..

Anyway, back on track: let me have a looksee at the 9-3 and I'll come back to you. What are you using it for - 120bhp isn't much if you shifting around (but that's just me).

bartman100

Hi, thanks all.

seataltea - appreciate the detailed response - lots to consider there. (why the username though?!)

Yossie - required for: commuting - potentially long distances each day, plus collecting and dropping off daughter + friends. So I'd like as much oomph for my buck as poss - I prize economy & safety over bling and speed though.

seataltea

bartman100 wrote:

seataltea - appreciate the detailed response - lots to consider there. (why the username though?!)

Yossie - required for: commuting - potentially long distances each day, plus collecting and dropping off daughter + friends. So I'd like as much oomph for my buck as poss - I prize economy & safety over bling and speed though.

A Seat Altea is the worst car I have ever owned and reminds me why I ride a bike everyday, the bike will always get me there without warning lights flashing and the stupidly complicated DSG gearbox locking up.

If you do drive long distances and must have a diesel then look for the 180hp version. It's the engine other manufacturers said could never be built, 180hp and emissions below 120g, road tax is pennies, performance is huge.

I'm buying a 9-3 2.8 Turbo Xwd estate later this month for a colleague who saw the Top Gear show a couple of weeks ago. He's a car nut, said he should have bought a Saab years ago and Clarksons seal of approval was all he needed to put his hand in his pocket.

Can't say fairer than that.

nicklouse

seataltea wrote:

Despite my username I own two Saabs, a 9-3 estate and a 9-3 Convertible, both are the 1.8t engine which is the wisest choice for a private buyer.

Unless you do large mileages the diesel is false economy, the 1.8t is actually a badge engineered 2.0 turbo but with different software and for a few hundred quid you can have 195-220hp and it will still get 40mpg on a run and 28mpg around town. Service costs are lower for the petrol, it is utterly reliable (no EGR problems) and cheaper to buy in the first place because everyone thinks diesels are cheaper to live with.

I am, sadly to some, involved in the Saab community and visited Sweden last year where I rallied Saabs in the Arctic Circle, drank lots of vodka and ate reindeer, the warmth and hospitality of the Saab employees and the people of Sweden was fantastic. This trip alone has made me a Saab customer for life *

They are great cars and a great company, production is currently suspended whilst bids for a new owner are assessed by the Swedish receiver, there are some large car companies (BMW, Mahindra, Tata and the Chinese) offering to buy them with hundreds of millions of Euros on the table. Future production is very likely if one of the bids is accepted and parts supply is assured even if it doesn't *under Swedish legislation (have to still produce parts for 10yrs when production stops).

Despite what you would think values haven't plummeted and some models have become hard to find as customers have bought cars fearing they wouldn't be able to get hold of a Saab again.

A 1.8t Convertible Vector Sport or a Linear SE plus TX Pack (carbon fibre interior and upgraded wheels) with a swan neck towbar and a Thule cycle carrier could be had for a very reasonable price, just factor in a Hirsch ECU upgrade to release the full potential of that turbo.

This guy always has some nice cars.

http://www.markarnold.co.uk/index.php

And new Saab owners are welcome here.

http://www.saabsunited.com/

I will also agree with the above after 10 years working with them in Sweden. But I could not wait around as things were just taking too long. Was help by the fact the office I worked at was being closed.

SAAB Parts is still a profitable company and spares will not be an issue. Ps they are more SAAB than Opel. Yes they may be based on but Opel parts but they were then modified.

Was back in trollywood a few weeks back and they are still positive. Will be back there over the weekend as well.

nwallace

Redhog14 wrote:

Oh dear I don't want to upset anyone here but - after years of driving German I bought a 9-5 turbo. was like driving a sofa very comfortable and soporific. Turbo blew up spectacularily at around 50K miles, not good, water pump failed shortly after also had several electric glitches. Chassis was made of cheese I think otherwise I can't imagine why it was so wobbly and it ate front tyres.

Sounds about right.
Insanley soft suspension, Turbos blow up regardless of what they are in if they aren't treated right (there's only 2 manufacturers IIRC on is Garret), must allways let it cool down with the engine running when you park, water pumps, meh, electrical glitches - wouldn't be a saab without, chassis made of Cheese? See suspension, ate front tyres, see suspension also insane amounts of lock. All these issues exist from the 99 onwards!
The cars were built with the need to drive along miles of remote gravel tracks in mind rather than super smooth Autobahn. The way british roads are going...

hstiles

Recent article in Guardian Money warned of potentially costly repairs as there's little possibility of a warranty claim against Saab, so you're dependent on dealers or independent specialists.

gasman_dave

We had one - a 9-5 estate which was brilliant at first. It still had the comfiest seat I have ever sat in.

They have a terrible habit of losing oil, meaning at one point we had to carry oil on long journeys. Add to that the blown turbo, new clutch and gearbox when it was 4 years old and the repairs soon got close to the value of the car. Repairs and parts were criminally expensive and that was a new V reg (we bought it on the day of the eclipse - Lord, show us a sign will you).

We bought a Volvo XC90 and it has been fabulous. I think the V70 or V50 may be what you might want but who knows?

You might get lucky.

Dave

rake

CambsNewbie wrote:

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

off topic question. you worked at volvo, i cant find a definate answer to this. the volvo 5 cylinder petrol, is it an audi engine or not?

CambsNewbie

rake wrote:

CambsNewbie wrote:

bartman100 wrote:

Thanks all. So if it's essentially a Vauxhall, am I just buying a nice looking Vauxhall? Kind of offputting!

More and more common I'm afraid.. An Audi A3, VW Golf, Skoda Octavian and Seat Leon are all the same chassis. You pick your budget and what you want the brand to say about you and VW group will supply the car!

A Volvo S40/V50 has a Ford Focus chassis, when I worked for a Volvo dealer, when you put a S40 up on a ramp, underneath you could see 'Ford Motor Co' stamped everywhere.

It's only going to get more common as manufacturers need to cut development costs.

Peugeot/Citreon/Toyota 107/C1/Aygo is another example.

off topic question. you worked at volvo, i cant find a definate answer to this. the volvo 5 cylinder petrol, is it an audi engine or not?

The 5 cylinder petrol engine is all Volvo. However, in the old 850/early V70s the 2.5 diesel engine was an Audi engine I'm pretty sure.

RideOnTime

t4tomo wrote:

If you want something swedish you can fit a bike in, then surely a Volvo estate is the way to go.

+1

SimonPieman

I would never buy another SAAB. We bought a new 93 conv (2.0lt T) it 2005 and had nothing but trouble with it from the minute we got it home. This included the electric hood malfunctioning several times, including the first time it was used, two new steering columns, replacement brake servos, various parts of the trim coming off. I found the car lovely to drive but the problems we had spoilt the whole experience. In the end SAAB agreed to buy it back!!
I have friends with SAAB's and there cars have been fine, but for me its once bitten.......!
I would worry now if the warranty would be honoured if SAAB cease trading.

proto

SAAB lover here, Had a 1999 9-3 2.0t for a few years, a really lovely car. Fast, comfy, good looking. Not a single thing went wrong with when I owned it. Gave it to a work colleague when I inherited a Volvo V50 D5 Geartronic diesel. He had the SAAB another two years before he sold it earlier this year (when he got a company car). My old 9-3 (and 900) was Cavalier based. I've owned a Cavailer and the 9-3 is nothing like the Vauxhall. Better in every way. Talk of torque steer is nonsense, although it might be an issue on the 260 bhp Griffin?Aero models (or whatever they were called).

I had the V50 for two years. Not a bad car car, but the stonking D5 motor was the wrong motor for the chassis. Very thirsty (ave 36 mpg) and the car just too small to be a decent estate car (it's Ford Focus based). So I sold it and bought a 2008 SAAB 9-5 Vector Sport 1.9 TDi estate a year ago.

It's a fabulous car. Best seats and interior of any car I've been in. Fast enough, reasonably economical, ~ 42 mpg ave, spacious. Well built, just oozes quality. And it's big. Bike in the boot easily with all the seats up. Or fold teh seats down and bike in the back with wheels still in. Nothing has gone wrong with it since I've owned it apart from a temperature sensor failing (didn't effect the running of the car, and was replaced in minutes)

Best bit though, is it's not an Audi or BMW, with their image problems. I think that Top Gear got it about right with their SAAB obituary recently, they are quirky, different and just slightly superior without shouting about it. And no, I'm not an architect.

The administrators of the SAAB carcase supposedly have a number of firm bids for the bsiness, Mahindra of India being one, Youngman of China another. Yet another supposedly being a large but unnamed car maker based in Munich.

Lots of info here http://www.saabsunited.com/

Regarding spares, amazingly supply has improved dramatically since the bankruptcy. Suppliers happy to make and sell parts knowing they will get paid. The previous managers of SAAB UK have started a new spares business and all is supposedly good. Buy with confidence.