hub geared road bike

secretsam

Hey all

Am thinking of getting a hub geared road machine for commuting - less maintenance, see - any suggestions? Needs to be light enough to do a 3-4 mile cross London route

The other optoin would be to get an Alfine wheel and fit to current bike - any ideas on costs, etc???

Thanks in advance

notsoblue

I keep hovering over the "Buy" button for these...

http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPOMPETV ... -speed-pro
http://www.on-one.co.uk/i/q/CBOOPOMPETV ... sa_8_speed

pangolin

I had an 8 speed pompetamine for a while.

My heel clipped the adjustment wheel thing on the rear disk brake, occasionally turning it. Not often, but surely once is once too many! I have size 11 / 12 feet though.

I found the disks a huge pain to set up, but it was only the second time I had ever set up a disk. Annoying they didn't come set up though. Found the hub gear nice.

It was fairly heavy obviously, but also was nice to ride and quite quick.

DrLex

pangolin wrote:

[...]My heel clipped the adjustment wheel thing on the rear disk brake, occasionally turning it. Not often, but surely once is once too many! I have size 11 / 12 feet though.
[...]

I have size 10 (44) and find that I can get heel-strike on the chain stays if my feet rotate slightly on the pedals (SPDs). More annoying is the toe strike, esp. with 'guards - tight turns on freewheel only!
Flat bar 11 speed with dynamo front hub -heavy, but lighter & faster than my old MTB as foul weather commuter. Would have thought twice about buying new, but found a year old one on the 'Bay for half the original price.

t4tomo

No experience of either but from what I've read (having looked at it for upgrade to the tandem) got to be worth getting Alfine 11 over Alfine 8 speed.

The brompton runs a SA 3 speed hub plus my Mrs vintage Puch has teh same. Hub gears are ideal for commuting - very minimal maintenance.

veronese68

Look at the pics of commuter bikes. There's a recent picture of a Genesis Day One with alfine, I think. I also think it belongs to Padders. This is relying on memory so could all be total fabrication.

padders

Yup, I'm currently running an Alfine 11 on a Genesis Day 01, an 8 has recently been posted on the pictures thread too.

I've no experience of the 8, but I'm loving the 11 for commuting. Since November it's held up to 100-200 miles a week through foul weather and fair with only minor fettling of the cable required to keep it behaving properly.

The shifting is nice and smooth and being able to shift whilst stationary has proven useful. Running 40:18 the range is more than adequate to get me around the Surrey Hills with no issues.

For the moment it’s living up to the hype.

The Rookie

SecretSam wrote:

Needs to be light enough to do a 3-4 mile cross London route

Well anything is light enough for that, my neighbour used to commute 4 miles each way on a Norca 8" travel DH bike!

Simon

soundninjauk

I ride a Cannondale Badboy Solo with a SRAM i-Motion 3 hub gear. My journey's 6 miles from West London to Soho and it's absolutely perfect for it. I'm also a big fan of the lack of maintenance required.

corshamjim

For something a little different, you could take a look at Pashley's Clubman Urban or their Guv'nor. Neither of them will be as lightweight as a 'proper' road bike but having drum brakes they should be very low maintenance.

meanredspider

I've never tried Alfine but I did once look at them on here and was shocked at the premium of 11 over 8. Is maintenance of a derailleur such a big deal? You still need to clean the chain as often and it sounds as though the cable still needs adjusting. So cleaning the jockey wheels seems like the big deal?

Style over speed

SecretSam wrote:

Hey all

Am thinking of getting a hub geared road machine for commuting - less maintenance, see - any suggestions? Needs to be light enough to do a 3-4 mile cross London route

The other optoin would be to get an Alfine wheel and fit to current bike - any ideas on costs, etc???

Thanks in advance

5 speed hub gear sturmey archer is plenty for central London, a single speed is as well for that matter. I do 8 1/2 miles each way on a Velorbis, weighs a ton but utterly lovely to ride. Chaincase, mudguards, dynamo lights and hub brakes = next to no maintenance, new chain every year or so is about it.

PedalPedant

meanredspider wrote:

I've never tried Alfine but I did once look at them on here and was shocked at the premium of 11 over 8. Is maintenance of a derailleur such a big deal? You still need to clean the chain as often and it sounds as though the cable still needs adjusting. So cleaning the jockey wheels seems like the big deal?

+1

I've never really understood the "low maintenance" argument. I clean and lubricate my chain once every couple of weeks (more often if the weather's bad) and replace the chain every couple of thousand miles or so. I don't spend any appreciable time cleaning the jockey wheels and I don't remember the last time I had to adjust my shifter cables.

Unless I moved to a belt drive I can't see that this would be any different.

Exactly what maintenance would I be saved by shifting to hub gears or single speed?

PP

(Just to clarify, I'm not trying to be controversial, I really would like to know)

jeepie

I've got a road bike that I use for summer commuting and a hubbed bike that I use for winter commuting (Alfine 8). I've done about 5000 miles on each.

The road bike has needed:

3 chains, 2 cassettes, 2 sets of cables, 1 new shifter (LH Shimano 105). The chain has come off about 5 times. I've spent probably 24 hours in total cleaning it in the 3 years or so I've had it.

The Alfine bike has needed:

meanredspider

Jeepie wrote:

I've got a road bike that I use for summer commuting and a hubbed bike that I use for winter commuting (Alfine 8). I've done about 5000 miles on each.

The road bike has needed:

3 chains, 2 cassettes, 2 sets of cables, 1 new shifter (LH Shimano 105). The chain has come off about 5 times. I've spent probably 24 hours in total cleaning it in the 3 years or so I've had it.

The Alfine bike has needed:

I've done about 5000 miles year-round (except ice) commuting on my 105-equipped Cayo. I've changed the chain because I thought I should and I've retensioned the gear cable maybe twice.

There's no logic to your experience (at least, none that I can see) - other than perhaps you abuse the road bike or you've crashed it several times. Can you elaborate?

essex-commuter

I was so close to getting an 11 speed On One Pomp when they first came out, I was thinking about all the maintainance I wouldn't have to. But the more I thought about it the issue of maintaining a derailleur equipped bike the mor I realised it wasn't an issue.

I get about 3-4K out of a chain.
I replace the cassette every 2-3 chains.
Cables I replace so rarely I don't know how long they last, it's not worth tracking.

I clean the drivetrain thoroughly every couple of weeks in the Winter, it takes maybe 15-20 minutes. In the Summer I clean it, I don't know, once a month?

I'm not sold on the less maintainance, especially given the comments I keep hearing about cable adjustment. I like the idea of a hub geared bike, but I just don't need it....or want it if I'm truthful. I think!

UndercoverElephant

Commuting by the coast I probably go through chains and cassettes quicker than most. The sand sticks to the chain oil and makes a handy grinding paste. When I first started commuting, I thought that hub gears would be great for me, now I'm not so sure. Thing is, I've got quite a lot better at maintaining my bike, it's not as scary or hard as I first thought - I actually find it a lot of fun.

That said, I'm not sure how I'd go about fixing a hub gear if it did go wrong.

davis

I regularly ride a Pompetamine Alfine 11 as my main commuter (105-equipped Roubaix for nice weather). I've also built an Alfine 8 for my dad.

For my uses, I don't think hub gears are worth it. They don't take as much cleaning as derailleur gears, but if you're riding regularly and often you'll probably still need to run the chain through an rag every couple of weeks. I've had it since about October and have done one thorough degrease and clean. I've also only really needed to play with cables once, and that was mostly because I kept taking the wheel off and faffing with mudguards.

Derailleurs "feel" nicer (less draggy, too), and everything that can break is right there in front of you, so it's possible to fix it. Shifting's better with derailleurs (IMHO), and there isn't all that weight at the back of the bike; the first time you bunny-hop the bike, you're quickly reminded of where the weight is!

meanredspider

Yup - I'm interested to understand about why hub gears are seen as so beneficial. The one experience I've had so far when hub gears would have been nice in the Puffer MTB race when the mud was apocalyptic and I was getting horrible chain suck. But, given I don't make a habit of riding in foot-deep mud on my commute, it's not a problem I'm looking to solve. I suppose I can see the attraction to some though I think I'd miss the range of gearing and the simplicity of regearing the bike that the derailleur offers.

jeepie

Hi meanredspider,

This was my first road bike. I found the front derallieur setup very sensitive - I think Shimano have now changed the design. I've think your commute is very rural, whereas mine is through very heavy traffic so I was constantly going up and down at the front whereas I guess you change gear less. I am not mechanically minded (or at least I wasn't but am getting better) and used a chain checker to monitor stretch. I changed my chain when the guide said. I broke a shifter as I think is a common problem. I rode it hard and felt it wasn't really very robust. I cleaned it regularly. I wonder what kind of reliability say London commuters get from their road bikes and how it compares to mine? I'm quite happy with my road bike actually.

The Alfine hubbed mountain bike has been great and I've done nothing to it. I think the straight chain line is the key and the fact the "cassette" is not exposed.

What do you think?

Jeepie

davis

Jeepie wrote:

This was my first road bike. I found the front derallieur setup very sensitive - I think Shimano have now changed the design. I've think your commute is very rural, whereas mine is through very heavy traffic so I was constantly going up and down at the front whereas I guess you change gear less. I am not mechanically minded (or at least I wasn't but am getting better) and used a chain checker to monitor stretch. I changed my chain when the guide said. I broke a shifter as I think is a common problem. I rode it hard and felt it wasn't really very robust. I cleaned it regularly. I wonder what kind of reliability say London commuters get from their road bikes and how it compares to mine? I'm quite happy with my road bike actually.

You'll probably get better at setting up derailleurs. They're not hard to set up once you've done it a few times, and they're certainly robust -- look at Paris->Roubaix or any cyclocross race, or most MTBs for that matter!

I don't pay too much heed to chain checkers: a steel ruler and how much the chain "wobbles" from side to side seems to work for me.

The Alfine hubbed mountain bike has been great and I've done nothing to it. I think the straight chain line is the key and the fact the "cassette" is not exposed.

I do think the straight chainline helps, but you can keep a derailleur-geared bike fairly straight if you're paying attention.

windbreaker

I'm so disappointed with Genesis Day One alfine (8 speed). I bought it to be a bomb proof commuter last Easter. I had lots of slipping in gear but now adjust just out of index and it works. Now after probably 4000 miles the gear changer is slipping when I change down it changes down lots of gears. This is very annoying. I'd say don't touch the genesis with a barge pole. I've even had to rebuild the back wheel twice, and going three cross rather than two cross sorted the frequent spoke breakeages. I run marathon winters in the winter, Marathon Racers in the "summer". I still get occasional flats and changing the tube is a faff although I'm now pretty slick at it.

As Meanredspider says what's wrong with a Derailleur? I'm still using a 1998 Shimano 105 which has done 30000 miles plus. Its not great but it works. Much lighter too.

In Edinburgh Bike Coop they keep saying everyone else likes their Day One Alfine but I think they are light users. Avoid!

meanredspider

@ Jeepie

Thanks - understand a bit better. Yes, my ride is very rural but don't mistake that for easy on the transmission. I'd imagine I change gear as often as anyone as the incline is permanently changing. The roads are also very dirty - lot of mud in particular. Also, being the Highlands, there's plenty of salt used.

I think maybe you aren't as mechanically sympathetic as you might be

MichaelW

Ive been using Alfine 8 for about 4 years on a Dahon Cadenza. I really love Alfine and find it clean, low maintenance and easy to use.
The chain doesnt attract as much gunk as when using pulley wheels, that is why is disapprove of using a spring chain tensioner for hub gears, they pick up as much dirt as a derailleur system.
I hardly ever adjust my cable (maybe once/year) and the gear never slips. Sturmey Archer has gaps you can slip into but I dont think that is the case with Shimano.
The gear shifter has been pretty reliable but it is quite exposed on the bars to damage and the plasticky construction is a bit tacky. If you nudge them a bit whilst riding they can setup for a sudden shift without warning.
After about 3 years, I gave the innards an oil dip in auto transmission fluid and it runs very freely now.

In use, the biggest advantage is that you dont have to think about what gear you are in, no cross-chaining or having to shift in advance. You can shift when stopped and generally get very lazy.

Wheel removal is a bit slower but its not difficult, just unhooking the cable from the cassette arm.

Alfine is great but it needs a suitable frame.

craker

3-4 miles + low maintenance = singlespeed, Shirley?

I've just got mine back on the road after a layoff, it's great fun for a 10 mile each way commute. That's drop bars and skinny tires, I can't imagine a hybrid with sensible tires being fun...

jamesco

Cycle-hire schemes seem to favour bikes with hub gears, so there must be some benefit in reliability & cost?

Anyway, as The Beginner said, a 3-4 mile commute can be done on just about anything. Even on two legs it's just an hour or so...

secretsam

FYI - the reason for the low maintenance criterion is that the bike will live in London, but I don't - it will live in the station.

The maintenance thing is interesting as I've a Sirrus which I've used and abused for about 4 years and has needed...err, new brake cables, pads and tyres...

il_principe

SecretSam wrote:

Hey all

Am thinking of getting a hub geared road machine for commuting - less maintenance, see - any suggestions? Needs to be light enough to do a 3-4 mile cross London route

The other optoin would be to get an Alfine wheel and fit to current bike - any ideas on costs, etc???

Thanks in advance

3-4 miles across London? Why bother with gears at all. I you want low maintenance then just go Single Speed.

meanredspider

jamesco wrote:

Cycle-hire schemes seem to favour bikes with hub gears, so there must be some benefit in reliability & cost?

Less prone to damage & abuse which aren't really the same things

jonny_trousers

SecretSam wrote:

FYI - the reason for the low maintenance criterion is that the bike will live in London, but I don't - it will live in the station.

The maintenance thing is interesting as I've a Sirrus which I've used and abused for about 4 years and has needed...err, new brake cables, pads and tyres...

Poor bike! Don't spend more than a couple of hundred quid on something you are going to leave in a station. +1 for a singlespeed. You should be able to pick something up that looks unattractive to thieves, yet rides really nicely pretty easily.