BBC Three Cycling Debate

notsoblue

Did anyone else catch last night's episode of "Free Speech"?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/i/b01d8m0m/?t=17m05s

Really discouraging bit of TV about cycling in the UK. It featured footage of one of the panellists cycling incredibly badly in central London. She was on a tiny folder, and was wobbling all over the place to the point where she was being undertaken by lorries. The debate ended up being about how theres a war on the motorist, and that cyclists need compulsory training and licenses...

Really surprising to see in a show apparently aimed at young people.

bails87

A tweet went out a while ago, @londoncyclist retweeted it, from the BBC/producers asking for an "outspoken" young cyclist in London....so that's the level of debate they seemed to be going for. I'll watch the show on iPlayer, if it's worth it.....?

Charlotte_TV wrote:

Hello! I am looking for outspoken 18-25yo cyclists for a live show on BBC3 on Wed 07.03. E:freespeect@mentorn.tv

Not passionate, well informed, experienced......outspoken. Makes good tv I suppose.

phy2sll2

Wow, that guy in the cap is a d1ck.

rick_chasey

bails87 wrote:

A tweet went out a while ago, @londoncyclist retweeted it, from the BBC/producers asking for an "outspoken" young cyclist in London....so that's the level of debate they seemed to be going for. I'll watch the show on iPlayer, if it's worth it.....?

Charlotte_TV wrote:

Hello! I am looking for outspoken 18-25yo cyclists for a live show on BBC3 on Wed 07.03. E:freespeect@mentorn.tv

Not passionate, well informed, experienced......outspoken. Makes good tv I suppose.

BBC 3 programming appeals to the lowest common denominator under the age of 35.

Most of it is Jeremy Kyle class sneering at poor people who do bad stuff like smoke whilst pregnant, make themselves look like prostitutes when they go out or go out aged 18 and get paralytic and chlamydia in Ibiza.

notsoblue

bails87 wrote:

A tweet went out a while ago, @londoncyclist retweeted it, from the BBC/producers asking for an "outspoken" young cyclist in London....so that's the level of debate they seemed to be going for. I'll watch the show on iPlayer, if it's worth it.....?

To be honest, its not worth it. The lady cyclists that they used for the VT had barely cycled before and by her own admission had 'failed cycling proficiency twice'. One of the other panellists just went off on one about how cyclists can get away with scratching people's cars and don't respect the highway code, even suggesting that they could get away with killing someone. A member of the audience just recommended a whole load of day glo tat. There was only one person whose opinion appeared to be sensible, but even he said at one point that "some cyclists bring it upon themselves".

Pretty infuriating stuff. Was odd to hear cheers from a young audience when a panellist was slagging cyclists off.

I fear that the positivity that has come from the Times' campaign has already started to wear off and there is a bit of a backlash in some quarters.

If I was new to cycling (and an idiot) this show would have scared the $hit out of me.

bails87

To be fair, some cyclists are idiots. Just like some drivers 'bring it on themselves' by driving at a million miles an hour and then ploughing, not unexpectedly, into a tree. There's nothing wrong with saying that some cyclists create problems for themselves.

There is a problem with only having one sane person on a TV program. I know BBC 3 tries to be 'down wiv da kids' but I'm not exactly old and I find almost everything they do excruciating. It's just so patronising. "Young people wont be interested unless we pretend we're from the hood". And stuff like this, that sounds like 'yoof' arguing with each other rather than having anyone who knows what they're talking about, is pointless really.

iPete

Doesn't sound like its worth entertaining.

NSB you should have heard the audience cheer when someone tried to put cycle commuters in room 101 when RLJ was mentioned, Frank Skinner was a bit taken back and told people to put their pitch forks away, or there abouts! I'd imagine an audience hasn't been as animated since public hangings.

rick_chasey

iPete wrote:

Doesn't sound like its worth entertaining.

NSB you should have heard the audience cheer when someone tried to put cycle commuters in room 101 when RLJ was mentioned, Frank Skinner was a bit taken back and told people to put their pitch forks away, or there abouts! I'd imagine an audience hasn't been as animated since public hangings.

Take it you don't watch 10 o'clock live - where anything that takes a snipe at the Tories gets the crowd virtually exploding with excitement.

veronese68

I can safely say I won't be watching that on iPlayer.

notsoblue

Rick Chasey wrote:

iPete wrote:

Doesn't sound like its worth entertaining.

NSB you should have heard the audience cheer when someone tried to put cycle commuters in room 101 when RLJ was mentioned, Frank Skinner was a bit taken back and told people to put their pitch forks away, or there abouts! I'd imagine an audience hasn't been as animated since public hangings.

Take it you don't watch 10 o'clock live - where anything that takes a snipe at the Tories gets the crowd virtually exploding with excitement.

I hate that. It makes rational political discourse amongst the public almost impossible. Everyone just retreats into their tribal safehouses and refuse to listen to reason.

Pete: I think both programmes show just how far this country has to go before cyclists are seen as anything other than a nuisance by a significant proportion of the population

rick_chasey

notsoblue wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

iPete wrote:

Doesn't sound like its worth entertaining.

NSB you should have heard the audience cheer when someone tried to put cycle commuters in room 101 when RLJ was mentioned, Frank Skinner was a bit taken back and told people to put their pitch forks away, or there abouts! I'd imagine an audience hasn't been as animated since public hangings.

Take it you don't watch 10 o'clock live - where anything that takes a snipe at the Tories gets the crowd virtually exploding with excitement.

I hate that. It makes rational political discourse amongst the public almost impossible. Everyone just retreats into their tribal safehouses and refuse to listen to reason.

Pete: I think both programmes show just how far this country has to go before cyclists are seen as anything other than a nuisance by a significant proportion of the population

Top gear's no different, only the presenters are less smart. .

As I said, bbc 3 is pretty bad anyway.

rick_chasey

Speaking of debates - another one here on how to improve London transport.

The bit that stood out was the guys emphasis on 'traffic flow'. I got the impression from previous bike campaigns that the TfL emphasis on traffic 'flow' has come at the cost of safety, particularly for people on push bikes.

spen666

notsoblue wrote:

..... There was only one person whose opinion appeared to be sensible, but even he said at one point that "some cyclists bring it upon themselves".......

What is wrong with that?

Some cyclists definitely do "bring it upon themselves"

Cyclists are not this perfect group of people who are beyond reproach.

Every time I ride, I see some cyclists acting in dangerous and or inconsiderate ways. They take needless and stupid risks, eg trying to undertake left turning vehicles etc.

We do ourselves no favours by trying to pretend some cyclists do bring it on themselves and let sensible cyclists down

rick_chasey

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

..... There was only one person whose opinion appeared to be sensible, but even he said at one point that "some cyclists bring it upon themselves".......

What is wrong with that?

Some cyclists definitely do "bring it upon themselves"

Cyclists are not this perfect group of people who are beyond reproach.

Every time I ride, I see some cyclists acting in dangerous and or inconsiderate ways. They take needless and stupid risks, eg trying to undertake left turning vehicles etc.

We do ourselves no favours by trying to pretend some cyclists do bring it on themselves and let sensible cyclists down

I think the idea is that that was the salient point in the chap's argument. :roll:

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

Cyclists are not this perfect group of people who are beyond reproach.

Lies! Cyclists, every single one of us, are all perfect and beyond reproach!

supersonic

Every time I ride, I see some cyclists acting in dangerous and or inconsiderate ways. They take needless and stupid risks, eg trying to undertake left turning vehicles etc.

It saddens me, but this is the case for me too - I see so many cyclists doing the above acts that it makes me cringe. Many people do seem to brand us as all the same.

I have not seen this BBC3 programme, but will try and catch it on iPlayer.

spen666

notsoblue wrote:

.....
Pete: I think both programmes show just how far this country has to go before cyclists are seen as anything other than a nuisance by a significant proportion of the population

The behaviour of cyclists needs to change before cyclists will be seen as anything other than a nuisance

notsoblue

spen666 wrote:

The behaviour of some cyclists needs to change before cyclists will be seen as anything other than a nuisance

ftfy

rml380z

spen666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

.....
Pete: I think both programmes show just how far this country has to go before cyclists are seen as anything other than a nuisance by a significant proportion of the population

The behaviour of cyclists needs to change before cyclists will be seen as anything other than a nuisance

The idea that cyclists are a single, homogeneous group needs to change before other attitudes change.

I had to switch off the debate when they wheeled out the first 'average' cyclist from the audience (the one wearing more flouro gear than an entire motorway repair crew), but I have as little in common with the her as I do with the baseball cap wearing dude on the panel.

Why was the first time cyclist wearing her helmet like it was a bonnet? I'm happy for people to make their own choices on safety equipment, but they should at least use it properly.

EKE_38BPM

rml380z wrote:

I'm happy for people to make their own choices on safety equipment, but they should at least use it properly.

Once I felt compelled to tell a couple of people I saw cycling that they had their helmets on back to front.

How stupid do you have to be to not realise that your helmet is on backwards?
Stupid enough to give me grief for it!

CiB

EKE_38BPM wrote:

How stupid do you have to be to not realise that your helmet is on backwards?
Stupid enough to give me grief for it!

And how are novices meant to know? Helmets can look the same front & rear; they fit both ways, the straps might work slightly better the right way but if your experience is zero and your expectation is that cycling is an uncomfortable activity that makes you sweat a bit, how are they to know better? I've bought helmets (honest, I've got one, mint it is) and the Evans halfwits were happy to take my cash but never made the slightest attempt at checking that I knew how to use it, much like they made zero attempt at showing some woman how to use the gears before she wheeled her new bike out of the shop making some vague noises about 'getting the hang of it then'.

If we take the view that anyone not as good as ourselves is an idiot, there must be a lot of idiots around.

rjsterry

CiB wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

How stupid do you have to be to not realise that your helmet is on backwards?
Stupid enough to give me grief for it!

And how are novices meant to know? Helmets can look the same front & rear; they fit both ways, the straps might work slightly better the right way but if your experience is zero and your expectation is that cycling is an uncomfortable activity that makes you sweat a bit, how are they to know better? I've bought helmets (honest, I've got one, mint it is) and the Evans halfwits were happy to take my cash but never made the slightest attempt at checking that I knew how to use it, much like they made zero attempt at showing some woman how to use the gears before she wheeled her new bike out of the shop making some vague noises about 'getting the hang of it then'.

If we take the view that anyone not as good as ourselves is an idiot, there must be a lot of idiots around.

Erm, well, helmets generally come with a little leaflet explaining how to use them. They even have pictures for those who can't read. If you can get yourself dressed in the morning, you can put a helmet on the right way round.

veronese68

CiB wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

Stupid enough to give me grief for it!

If we take the view that anyone not as good as ourselves is an idiot, there must be a lot of idiots around.

I think the giving grief has probably skewed EKE's opinion. Not unreasonable. I'd be miffed if I tried to help someone and got grief for it.

king_jeffers

I've been commuting for around a year and it really does shock me how incredibly unfashionable it is to cycle. It reminds me of when I first started using the internet in 1994 (god I feel old!), anyone who used it for the next 6 years would be criticised for being a geek, until... well... women got involved. They made it fashionable and certainly more socially acceptable. I'm convinced the same needs to be done for cycling; we need to campaign for more women cyclists, once this is achieved we will be accepted ;-)

dhope

King Jeffers wrote:

I've been commuting for around a year and it really does shock me how incredibly unfashionable it is to cycle. It reminds me of when I first started using the internet in 1994 (god I feel old!), anyone who used it for the next 6 years would be criticised for being a geek, until... well... women got involved. They made it fashionable and certainly more socially acceptable. I'm convinced the same needs to be done for cycling; we need to campaign for more women cyclists, once this is achieved we will be accepted ;-)

How best to raise awareness of women cycling.
Maybe a thread.
With girls.
Wearing what cycling people wear.

Girls in Lycra? What's the worst that could happen.

jimmypippa

EKE_38BPM wrote:

rml380z wrote:

I'm happy for people to make their own choices on safety equipment, but they should at least use it properly.

Once I felt compelled to tell a couple of people I saw cycling that they had their helmets on back to front.

How stupid do you have to be to not realise that your helmet is on backwards?
Stupid enough to give me grief for it!

WTF?

Not you

Actually, HTF?

Applespider

King Jeffers wrote:

I've been commuting for around a year and it really does shock me how incredibly unfashionable it is to cycle. It reminds me of when I first started using the internet in 1994 (god I feel old!), anyone who used it for the next 6 years would be criticised for being a geek, until... well... women got involved. They made it fashionable and certainly more socially acceptable. I'm convinced the same needs to be done for cycling; we need to campaign for more women cyclists, once this is achieved we will be accepted ;-)

Chuckling at dhope's post!
Hmm, I started using the internet in 1994 too and just got called a geek girl.

I think cycling has got more fashionable in the last year or so. I have more friends (male and female) telling me that they plan on trying it than I ever used to, the bike racks at work are getting fuller (even in the winter) and it's now a rare junction in town that you don't meet another cyclist at - during rush hour anyhow! Coming back through Stockwell tonight, it looked like Critical Mass at the lights on CS7!

jimmypippa

Applespider wrote:

King Jeffers wrote:

I've been commuting for around a year and it really does shock me how incredibly unfashionable it is to cycle. It reminds me of when I first started using the internet in 1994 (god I feel old!), anyone who used it for the next 6 years would be criticised for being a geek, until... well... women got involved. They made it fashionable and certainly more socially acceptable. I'm convinced the same needs to be done for cycling; we need to campaign for more women cyclists, once this is achieved we will be accepted ;-)

Chuckling at dhope's post!
Hmm, I started using the internet in 1994 too and just got called a geek girl.

I think cycling has got more fashionable in the last year or so. I have more friends (male and female) telling me that they plan on trying it than I ever used to, the bike racks at work are getting fuller (even in the winter) and it's now a rare junction in town that you don't meet another cyclist at - during rush hour anyhow! Coming back through Stockwell tonight, it looked like Critical Mass at the lights on CS7!

Last time I was in London (training course near Hyde Park Corner) I noticed that. Icould actually believe that tehre was nearly a critical mass of cyclist s in London.

Not where I live.