How many of us pedal through the upstroke

london-red

Simple as that, really. I've been half-heartedly trying to adopt the practice of consistently pedalling through the upstroke, so not just on short sharp bursts or climbs. Find it quite difficult to maintain though.

So how many do it?

MonkeyMonster

when i remember and sit in a certain golden power spot on my saddle that is further forward than normal - then it suddenly all fits together and i can easily throw out 3-5 more mph

rjsterry

Of course it's harder to maintain, you are using additional muscles to transfer more energy.

rick_chasey

Can't tell. I unweight my trailing leg. On flats that means my foot briefly lifts off the pedals.

When I'm on my single speed honking it uphill, it's hard not to pull up.

UndercoverElephant

On the flat and downhills then yes, I do. Stops the legs from getting too tired. On the uphills, then no, I like to stomp on the pedals.

Kieran_Burns

<pedant mode> I've personally never tried to sell anything while cycling </pedant mode>

sketchley

Are you talking about keeping the power even through 360 degree? If so I do this all learnt in spin classes (RPM classes to be exact). My memory maps says heals down, knees in and scrape the dog mess off the bottom of your shoe at the bottom on the down stroke. It amazing how I can feel the power come on when I focus on the technique, it like lighting the after burners......

meanredspider

Kieran_Burns wrote:

<pedant mode> I've personally never tried to sell anything while cycling </pedant mode>

How do you know he's talking about a cycling upstroke?

roger_merriman

No since I use flats on both my bikes,

did used to have SPD on the old roadie but never pulled up on them.

i do though have a fairly smooth peddling action, stomp a load of torque on a MTB where grip is marginal at best and you'll just spin.

the performance from it is less clear, haven't yet seen anything that isn't opinion dressed as fact.

3-5 mph from pulling up would be a lot, ie well over 50% increase in power it is improbable.

medoramas

I do it quite often, when I don't feel too tired. I've got three very long hills to climb onto during my commute. And there are only two ways of riding them - either do it slowly, on one of the lightest gears, or push it as hell to maintain the momentum that will get me up there (stand up on the pedals and "push it-pull it" all the way...)...

phy2sll2

Apparently (can't remember where I read this but it sounded believable) the muscles you use to do this are a lot less efficient than those you employ on the down-stroke, hence why you tire quickly when pulling up.

Unweighting the upwards moving foot is probably the optimal balance of power and efficiency.

jonny_trousers

Other than when accelerating from a stop, no. But then my technique could no doubt be improved in many ways.

il_principe

Argh, pedal, PEDAL!

Also - souplesse

http://redkiteprayer.com/?p=4957

london-red

<pedant mode> I've personally never tried to sell anything while cycling </pedant mode>

The shame...

Interesting responses, despite my crap spelling. I toy with it but find it really difficult to nail, not because it's particularly hard work but because I tend to forget. But I agree with most here - when I do use it consistently, I find loads more power. I guess it's about having the discipline.

Are you talking about keeping the power even through 360 degree? If so I do this all learnt in spin classes (RPM classes to be exact). My memory maps says heals down, knees in and scrape the dog mess off the bottom of your shoe at the bottom on the down stroke. It amazing how I can feel the power come on when I focus on the technique, it like lighting the after burners......

Interesting - I'll give that a go.

Topaxci

I do it occasionally when I need the extra power or just feeling more energetic than usual.
Normally don't think about it so end up naturally just spinning.

FoldingJoe

Only when climbing, and only then if I've got the energy to get out of the saddle.

rjsterry

Do it a lot, especially pulling away from lights and climbing - I know this because my SPDs have let go quite spectacularly a couple of times (tend to keep them fairly loose for commuting), which must have been entertaining for any of those behind me.

sketchley

I think there is big difference between really pulling on the up stroke and keeping the power all round the 360 degrees. The former doesn't give an even pedal stroke so doesn't lend itself to spinning, the later however does. I'm no expert though, it just seems that all those exercises in spin classes did me some good....

attica

Nice article IP

The best advice I was ever given was "Your legs are not a steam engine, they're a turbine"
Don't think "up" and "down" stroke, think in circles, that is how you will approach souplesse.

Needless to say as soon as I'm honking up a hill that goes out of the window. Glad to hear it's not just me who loses style when the going gets tough

SimonAH

Started doing it on the fixeh about a year ago (seem to recall I launched a similar thread at the time). It was very hard for a while and took concious effort as the muscles used were not, well, used to it so really felt the pain for a bit. After a while though they acclimatised and it's now fairly second nature. Not full wattage on the upstroke, but certainly a bit more than unweighting the the trailing foot, plus kicking the door and scraping the poo.

I have noticed that this also keeps me in the saddle at the sort of rpm that used to have me bouncing about like anything on fast fixie descents.

il_principe

Attica wrote:

Nice article IP

The best advice I was ever given was "Your legs are not a steam engine, they're a turbine"
Don't think "up" and "down" stroke, think in circles, that is how you will approach souplesse.

Needless to say as soon as I'm honking up a hill that goes out of the window. Glad to hear it's not just me who loses style when the going gets tough

You need to have style before you can lose it. :P

attica

Ouch!


[searches in vain for a good enough come back]

Coach H

phy2sll2 wrote:

Apparently (can't remember where I read this but it sounded believable) the muscles you use to do this are a lot less efficient than those you employ on the down-stroke, hence why you tire quickly when pulling up.

Unweighting the upwards moving foot is probably the optimal balance of power and efficiency.

Hamstrings and glutes (ar$e to the uninformed) less efficient than quads?
Somebody better tell them as they are actually your leg engines it just feels like your quads are.
Have you ever wondered why when after doing intense leg based exercises (running, cycling, football etc) it is your quads that are more likely fatigued than your hamstrings/glute? Probably because your quads are less efficient.

notsoblue

Coach H wrote:

phy2sll2 wrote:

Apparently (can't remember where I read this but it sounded believable) the muscles you use to do this are a lot less efficient than those you employ on the down-stroke, hence why you tire quickly when pulling up.

Unweighting the upwards moving foot is probably the optimal balance of power and efficiency.

Hamstrings and glutes (ar$e to the uninformed) less efficient than quads?
Somebody better tell them as they are actually your leg engines it just feels like your quads are.
Have you ever wondered why when after doing intense leg based exercises (running, cycling, football etc) it is your quads that are more likely fatigued than your hamstrings/glute? Probably because your quads are less efficient.

Could it just be that with cycling you train your quads, and with running you train your hamstrings/glutes so if you cycle more than you run then your hamstrings/glutes get fatigued quicker than your quads, and vice versa.

phy2sll2

Coach H wrote:

phy2sll2 wrote:

Apparently (can't remember where I read this but it sounded believable) the muscles you use to do this are a lot less efficient than those you employ on the down-stroke, hence why you tire quickly when pulling up.

Unweighting the upwards moving foot is probably the optimal balance of power and efficiency.

Hamstrings and glutes (ar$e to the uninformed) less efficient than quads?
Somebody better tell them as they are actually your leg engines it just feels like your quads are.
Have you ever wondered why when after doing intense leg based exercises (running, cycling, football etc) it is your quads that are more likely fatigued than your hamstrings/glute? Probably because your quads are less efficient.

So, I think the reason given was along the lines of: during exercise requiring significant effort from your legs (running, cycling, etc), your quads are used primarily to provide balance, while power is provided by (as you say), glutes and hamstrings. Might be rubbish, I don't know!

EDIT: Here's the source: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNpvASJDpms. As you can see, I've mixed the two reasons up! On reflection, I'm not sure how convincing his explanation is!

Paul E

When pulling away if I want a bit of extra umph but apart form that not really I unweight my trailing leg more

itboffin

Attica wrote:

Nice article IP

The best advice I was ever given was "Your legs are not a steam engine, they're a turbine"
Don't think "up" and "down" stroke, think in circles, that is how you will approach souplesse.

Needless to say as soon as I'm honking up a hill that goes out of the window. Glad to hear it's not just me who loses style when the going gets tough

You just need to MTFU you big jess

vermin

Quick starts and climbs are all about the upstroke for me, but then, my last cycling lesson was at the age of 3.

itboffin

Attica wrote:

Ouch!

[searches in vain for a good enough come back]

Ouch that sounds like a challenge to me, if only there was some kind of semi public forum you two could duke it out ..... oh wait isn't there that XXX in XXX where you'll both be together garmin's @ damn jumpers for goal posts n all that.

Oh I will have a camera the entire time (mostly to distract you all from my lantern rouge status).

Sounds like a whole new thread to me

attica

Hmmm, I think we might need some sort of points system to judge style. I think I'm pretty much guaranteed to lose to the Pinarello Pilot though, never been able to climb as well as him...

...Maybe if I just wait for the batteries to run out on his shiny new Campy groupset I might have a chance.


:P

Twostage

I'm in the 'when I remember' camp. It does make you faster but I can't keep it up. One of those things you need to practice until it becomes second nature like Sketchley and SimonAH says.