Soul Wheelset

squibnocket

Hi has anybody on the forum, bought or rode any of these wheels, for the price the spec and weight they appear to be a good value wheelset.

http://bikesoul.com/2009/index.php?opti ... &Itemid=10


I've currently got some Vision trimax wheels on my bike and wondered how they'd compare to the soul wheels....and yes I'm looking for another wheelset on a budget.

Thanks

ugo.santalucia

Looking at them, these are my thoughts:

1) the weight quoted is probably fake... these are likely Novatec hubs, which weigh just under 400 g a pair... the rims can't be less than 850 grams, given the profile... so unless the spokes are made of air, the weight is wrong.

2) The hubs really look like the Novatec ones, which are OK... can't comment about the rims, but look like many rims in a similar price range...

3) Build is very similar to similar wheels, Px mod. B or Pro Lite Bracciano, to name a few

In essence, as long as you don't buy into the sub 1300 g argument, they are probably a decent wheelset... if you want something durable, look elsewhere though...

squibnocket

Thanks for your reply, I often wonder about quoted weights, I have sent a pm to a guy on here that bought a pair but had no reply.

cheers

ugo.santalucia

They lie because they know it's difficult to weigh a set of wheels accurately, so they get away with it.
They are probably just over 1400 g, in line with similar products. Their alleged ultra light hubs look like Nobvatec to me

Besides, it's difficult to get a good wheelset at that weight... most are made of cheap components... paper thin rims that don't last and fail quickly, hubs that underengineered and crack at the first pothole, too few spokes...

I think if you want a light wheelset which will last a few years, you need to get to at least 1600 grams

amaferanga

The hubs look similar (but not identical) to these which weigh 290g. So no reason to assume that the hubs weigh 400g actually.

But it is difficult to understand how they could weigh so little. I think ugo is about right with the weight of the rims being at least 425g each. The front hub may be as little as 70g. Sapim CX-rays weigh 87g for 20. Add brass nipples at 1g each. Total is already over 600g and that's with optimistic weights for the rims and the spokes.

racingcondor

Worth a look on bikeforums.net. Since it's a US forum there are quite a few users on there who ride Soul wheels. Personally I have no experience with them but I've seen them raved about quite a bit.

huuregeil

Bear in mind that e.g. Stans Alpha 340 rims weigh a mere 350g, or IRD Cadence is 390g, there's no problem at all with the quoted wheel weights in my mind (290 + 5*44 is 510, leaves something a little over 800g for both rims). Whether the wheel itself will be all that stiff or durable is another question!

amaferanga

huuregeil wrote:

Bear in mind that e.g. Stans Alpha 340 rims weigh a mere 350g, or IRD Cadence is 390g, there's no problem at all with the quoted wheel weights in my mind (290 + 5*44 is 510, leaves something a little over 800g for both rims). Whether the wheel itself will be all that stiff or durable is another question!

The lightest IRD rim is the same as the Kinlin XR200 I believe - a 20mm deep rim and about 375g. The Soul rims are 25mm so closer to the Kinlin XR270 which weighs 445g. So 425g would seem about right as a lower limit - I doubt a 25mm deep rim would weigh less than 400g and if it does then the braking surface must be very, very thin.

huuregeil

amaferanga wrote:

huuregeil wrote:

Bear in mind that e.g. Stans Alpha 340 rims weigh a mere 350g, or IRD Cadence is 390g, there's no problem at all with the quoted wheel weights in my mind (290 + 5*44 is 510, leaves something a little over 800g for both rims). Whether the wheel itself will be all that stiff or durable is another question!

The lightest IRD rim is the same as the Kinlin XR200 I believe - a 20mm deep rim and about 375g. The Soul rims are 25mm so closer to the Kinlin XR270 which weighs 445g. So 425g would seem about right as a lower limit - I doubt a 25mm deep rim would weigh less than 400g and if it does then the braking surface must be very, very thin.

I present you the stans alpha 340! ERD 591==25mm heigh and 350g.

Not saying such thin rims are a good idea, it's just that the quoted weights aren't impossible to achieve (i.e. there are aluminium rims that do exists that are compatible with this build). This does tell you something about the durability of the components used, however ;-)

joshvoulters

Soul design their own hubs (which are used OEM by Fairwheel for some builds), and have rims manufactured to spec.

They're designed by the owner of Soul, Sean Wai, in Singapore who then outsources manufacture to China/ Taiwan.

All of this is stated pretty clearly on the website's FAQs, which makes quotes such as the below seem pretty misinformed:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

They are probably just over 1400 g, in line with similar products. Their alleged ultra light hubs look like Nobvatec to me

Besides, it's difficult to get a good wheelset at that weight... most are made of cheap components... paper thin rims that don't last and fail quickly, hubs that underengineered and crack at the first pothole, too few spokes...

I think if you want a light wheelset which will last a few years, you need to get to at least 1600 grams

I have a set of S2.0 wheels, with white rims. They're listed at 1370g on the website, and came out on my cheapo scales at 1382g. They're also very stiff. All in all, I'm very happy with them- nothing comparable for the price.

To the OP- check on the Weight Weenies forum if you want more impressions from people who own them, and there was a recent review of a set on Road.cc

Edit: here it is - http://road.cc/content/review/48341-soul-s20-wheelset

ugo.santalucia

joshvoulters wrote:

Soul design their own hubs (which are used OEM by Fairwheel for some builds), and have rims manufactured to spec.

They're designed by the owner of Soul, Sean Wai, in Singapore who then outsources manufacture to China/ Taiwan.

All of this is stated pretty clearly on the website's FAQs, which makes quotes such as the below seem pretty misinformed:

ugo.santalucia wrote:

They are probably just over 1400 g, in line with similar products. Their alleged ultra light hubs look like Nobvatec to me

Besides, it's difficult to get a good wheelset at that weight... most are made of cheap components... paper thin rims that don't last and fail quickly, hubs that underengineered and crack at the first pothole, too few spokes...

I think if you want a light wheelset which will last a few years, you need to get to at least 1600 grams

I have a set of S2.0 wheels, with white rims. They're listed at 1370g on the website, and came out on my cheapo scales at 1382g. They're also very stiff. All in all, I'm very happy with them- nothing comparable for the price.

To the OP- check on the Weight Weenies forum if you want more impressions from people who own them, and there was a recent review of a set on Road.cc

Edit: here it is - http://road.cc/content/review/48341-soul-s20-wheelset

Admittedly, I couldn't be bothered to go on their website and read ofthem boasting their hubs, which are suspiciously equal to those used by Planet X and made by Novatec... but then again, hubs are hubs and at least the front ones are very much of a muchness...

Now, I did read the pathetic review in your link, probably written by the usual spotty adolescent who gets very enthusiastic about anything which costs a lot of money and weighs very little... the review is of very little use, as they always are, but it contains an interesting piece of information: Soul wants you to replace the bearings every 5000 Km... which says a lot about their confidence in the product. Typically a good set of sealed bearings will last at least ten times that. Now, changing the bearings is not rocket science, but the average cyclist doesn't have a clue on how to do it... I have done it on a Planet X hub and it involves quite some bashing, which, even with extreme care, results in a bit of damage of the hub external surface and the occasional knocked bearing seal, which then makes the bearing unusable... it also require tools, as the method they suggest to use the axle as a punch often results in a damaged axle... now, do it twice per year as they recommend and it becomes a rather expensive exercise.
I don't know, I think a set of Planet X model B has the same disadvantages but at least it costs less than half and weighs only a a little more

damitamit

I've had a pair of S2.0s for about 3 years now. I have the older version which were 1324g. And they were actually that weight on my kitchen scales and bike scales.

They've been great, haven't had to touch them once. Only this winter have the rear bearings felt a bit rough, but still spin for ages.

Here they are on my new winter build:



Amit

majormantra

There's a lot of tosh in this thread. If you do a little research on Bikeforums etc. you'll find that Sean's stuff isn't just the usual generic rims and hubs restickered. Most of his parts are to his own spec so you won't find exactly the same hubs and rims anywhere else.

I've been riding a set of Soul S3.0SLs for over a year. Quoted weight was 1400g and I think they weighed in at about 1430g on my scales. That's with a Campag freehub though and I think they might be slightly lighter with a Shimano one. This is what they look like:




Pros:
-Cost/weight ratio is pretty much unbeatable - I paid approximately £360 including postage and import duties. That's similar to a set of Ksyrium Elites and these are way, way lighter.
-Build quality (and ride quality) seems very good, although at my weight (~54kg) I don't put a great strain on them.

Cons:
-It can take a while to get them. I think it was about 6 weeks from my initial enquiry to receiving the wheels but Sean is good about telling you how long you'll have to wait, so I'm certainly not complaining.
-I have some concerns about the hubs. The bearings aren't particularly well shielded and my front one feels a bit rough now. My rear hub has developed noticeable play so I'll likely be getting the whole bearing set replaced quite soon.

All in all I would recommend Soul with the caveat that they may not be ideal for year round riding on gritty or muddy roads. If I were buying again I'd ask Sean about his newer wide rims. They aren't listed on his site but I'm fairly sure they're available. IIRC there's a wide version (~22mm) of the S2.0SL that comes in around 1370g and would offer some of the benefits of much more expensive rims like the Hed C2.

majormantra

Here's another pic of them in use. Just feeding my vanity.

Crimmey

I got a pair! S2.0s with the cheaper hub and 3.2mm spokes was $400 inc del, no import, then I bought spare spokes at $1 a pop and they are all the same size across both wheels so no messing/down time if they need replacing which is why I bought them. If I remember correctly the weight was spot on for my set. There were quite a few posts on weight weenies all saying the weights were very close to those quoted. I have the numbers written down somewhere. Absolutely no problems at all and the bearings still feel great after 4000miles, possibly more. I got the Planet x Al 30 in December and had problems after 500miles, if that. Replaced the bearings and 1500+ miles later, much better so far. Not sure how easy it is to get new spokes though. So if you are a fettler the Planet x are fine.
I've spent loads on wheels and really you don't notice the extra lightness and I'm not heavy, if that's what you are after. If you are fairly light and have money burning a hole in your pocket then go for it. My next set will have 32 spokes.

majormantra

The spokes are standard so replacements shouldn't be a problem if you need them. That's another pro I should have mentioned when comparing to wheels like the Ksyriums that use proprietary spokes.

rake

at 54 kg rider they will be fine. 8.5 stone. no wheel will struggle at that weight.

majormantra

rake wrote:

at 54 kg rider they will be fine. 8.5 stone. no wheel will struggle at that weight.

As I said in my post. There are plenty of heavier riders on Souls though. Sean does beefier builds for riders that are significantly heavier.

flasher

MajorMantra wrote:

There's a lot of tosh in this thread.

Just this thread?

Welcome to the internet

galatzo

Crimmey wrote:

I got a pair! S2.0s with the cheaper hub and 3.2mm spokes was $400 inc del, no import, then I bought spare spokes at $1 a pop and they are all the same size across both wheels so no messing/down time if they need replacing which is why I bought them. If I remember correctly the weight was spot on for my set. There were quite a few posts on weight weenies all saying the weights were very close to those quoted. I have the numbers written down somewhere. Absolutely no problems at all and the bearings still feel great after 4000miles, possibly more. I got the Planet x Al 30 in December and had problems after 500miles, if that. Replaced the bearings and 1500+ miles later, much better so far. Not sure how easy it is to get new spokes though. So if you are a fettler the Planet x are fine.
I've spent loads on wheels and really you don't notice the extra lightness and I'm not heavy, if that's what you are after. If you are fairly light and have money burning a hole in your pocket then go for it. My next set will have 32 spokes.

That is one hardcore position without even seeing the saddle height :shock:
Show us the whole bike set up dood.

majormantra

Galatzo wrote:

Crimmey wrote:

I got a pair! S2.0s with the cheaper hub and 3.2mm spokes was $400 inc del, no import, then I bought spare spokes at $1 a pop and they are all the same size across both wheels so no messing/down time if they need replacing which is why I bought them. If I remember correctly the weight was spot on for my set. There were quite a few posts on weight weenies all saying the weights were very close to those quoted. I have the numbers written down somewhere. Absolutely no problems at all and the bearings still feel great after 4000miles, possibly more. I got the Planet x Al 30 in December and had problems after 500miles, if that. Replaced the bearings and 1500+ miles later, much better so far. Not sure how easy it is to get new spokes though. So if you are a fettler the Planet x are fine.
I've spent loads on wheels and really you don't notice the extra lightness and I'm not heavy, if that's what you are after. If you are fairly light and have money burning a hole in your pocket then go for it. My next set will have 32 spokes.

That is one hardcore position without even seeing the saddle height :shock:
Show us the whole bike set up dood.

You may not want to go there. I seem to remember a 6 page thread arguing about this bike...

Crimmey

You've asked for it.....my new aquisition.

NeilMick

WTF? :shock:

jim453

Brilliant.

Crimmey's back and he's posting more pictures of his insane bike.

kamil1891

Crimmey wrote:

You've asked for it.....my new aquisition.

Have you ever considered proper bike fit ?:D

galatzo

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock:
Your right I did ask.

Paul 8v

Crimmey wrote:

You've asked for it.....my new aquisition.

Holy f£%k! You must have the body proportions of a gibbon!? No offence, it just looks mad!