The rising price of petrol, when will it end?

DonDaddyD

I very nearly had a rage on today.

Petrol prices at my local pump were £1.39.9.

Diesel was £1.49.9

That's steep, especially for petrol. What can be done (other than not driving)?

Discuss.

Pufftmw

Rising price of petrol will end when the oil runs out - simples

DonDaddyD

£1.40 a litre is fooking steep though. I'm not sure how they (the Man) expects me to get around when cycling is simply not practical. We can't all ride the bus, take public transport which is in itself also expensive.

Should we just stay confined to our respective towns and never venture out unless by horse?

el_presidente

I drove up to Coventry last week and the M40 was like something out of 28 Days Later, very very quiet.

If you think this is expensive, wait til the Yanks bomb Iran ;(

W1

It's mostly tax.

As Rick isn't around today, I'd suggest we cut the tax on petrol and help pay for it by reducing benefit fraud.

About £1.2bn would do.

suzyb

I thought petrol down South was cheaper than up here. I only paid 133p on Monday.

DonDaddyD

Isn't it something like 58p is tax? Or is that 58%?

DonDaddyD

suzyb wrote:

I thought petrol down South was cheaper than up here. I only paid 133p on Monday.

Nope petrol in the South (especially London) is very expensive. My £1.39 was at a Tesco petrol station in Wimbledon.

Oop North the petrol is so much cheaper last time I went to Coventry I filled my tank to the brim, seemed rude not to.

Haven't seen a price anywhere near £1.33 since early last year.

W1

DonDaddyD wrote:

suzyb wrote:

I thought petrol down South was cheaper than up here. I only paid 133p on Monday.

Nope petrol in the South (especially London) is very expensive. My £1.39 was at a Tesco petrol station in Wimbledon.

Oop North the petrol is so much cheaper last time I went to Coventry I filled my tank to the brim, seemed rude not to.

Haven't seen a price anywhere near £1.33 since early last year.

It's been 132.9p at Esso on the NKR and Shell on the Embankment for the last 6 months at least.

It's only risen in the last few days that I've noticed.

Hopefully it will keep the poor off the roads, so that the rich can get everywhere much faster, like they deserve to, what with all the tax they've paid.

mtb-idle

I bought a litre of water the other day, cost me two quid.

W1

DonDaddyD wrote:

Isn't it something like 58p is tax? Or is that 58%?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/news/a ... etrol.html

From the Daily Mail.

You heard it.

il_principe

DonDaddyD wrote:

£1.40 a litre is fooking steep though. I'm not sure how they (the Man) expects me to get around when cycling is simply not practical. We can't all ride the bus, take public transport which is in itself also expensive.

You can for getting about in London though. Honestly, do you really need the car for journeys around your corner of SW London? I manage just fine without one, and if I really have to drive then there's Zipcar or car hire. Still works out cheaper than owning one of the bloody things.

notsoblue

[url=http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/effects-of-petrol-duty-on-household-income-news-release/fuel-duty-effects-nr.html]ONS[/url] wrote:

The data also show that the poorest 20 per cent of households paid almost twice as much of their income in duties on fuel than the richest 20 per cent. In 2009/10, the poorest 20 per cent of households paid 3.5 per cent of their disposable income on duty, compared with only 1.8 per cent for the top 20 per cent. Overall, the average UK household spent 2.3 per cent of its disposable income on duties on fuel.

However, in cash terms, the richest 20 per cent of households paid almost three-times the amount paid by the bottom 20 per cent. In 2009/10 the richest 20 per cent of households spent £1,062 on petrol taxes, compared with £365 for the poorest 20 per cent of households. Overall, the average UK household spent £677 on duties on fuel in 2009/10.

Its only 2.3% of your disposable income. Man up and earn more or quit complaining

rjsterry

Just looked up some stats. The US uses about as much oil as does the whole of Europe & Eurasia - about 19million barrels a day!. China - and we all know how many people live there and how fast their economy is growing - uses about 8.6million barrels a day.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/jun/09/bp-energy-statistics-consumption-reserves-energy#

Don't think oil - and therefore petrol and home energy bills - will be getting cheaper...

...ever.

DonDaddyD

Il Principe wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

£1.40 a litre is fooking steep though. I'm not sure how they (the Man) expects me to get around when cycling is simply not practical. We can't all ride the bus, take public transport which is in itself also expensive.

You can for getting about in London though. Honestly, do you really need the car for journeys around your corner of SW London? I manage just fine without one, and if I really have to drive then there's Zipcar or car hire. Still works out cheaper than owning one of the bloody things.

You have no child. You do not know the levels of anger and stress it is getting a push chair around public transport with a screaming baby. They sleep in the car, all the time. It's like a drug to them. Money well spent if you ask me.

I tried the Zipcar and Streetcar. Never seemed to have the immediate readies. Funny that consider how I pay for my car.

bails87

The AA do a monthly fuel price report comparing the UK to the rest of Europe, where do we rank in that?

DonDaddyD

notsoblue wrote:

Its only 2.3% of your disposable income. Man up and earn more or quit complaining

I think I may have to. The next big thing is nursery prices. I can really begin to see how people are priced out of working. It would be cheaper for me not to drive at all and if I earned £65,000 (rough estimate) it would make more sense for ms DDD not to work at all, even though that is less than our combined income.

notsoblue

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Its only 2.3% of your disposable income. Man up and earn more or quit complaining

I think I may have to. The next big thing is nursery prices. I can really begin to see how people are priced out of working. It would be cheaper for me not to drive at all and if I earned £65,000 (rough estimate) it would make more sense for ms DDD not to work at all, even though that is less than our combined income.

I guess as RC isn't here today I should mention something about childcare being cheap/free in Scandinavia?

roger_merriman

DonDaddyD wrote:

£1.40 a litre is fooking steep though. I'm not sure how they (the Man) expects me to get around when cycling is simply not practical. We can't all ride the bus, take public transport which is in itself also expensive.

Should we just stay confined to our respective towns and never venture out unless by horse?

a) you live in london you can take the bus/train you may not want to but thats another matter. or if it's close ie only a few miles walk?

b) cars can be cheap, but people chose to use big expensive cars, so they pay for that running costs, be that fuel/loans and the reduction in value of a car.

all of these are wants not needs.

Ido own a car but it's old and cheap to run, i use it for going back to wales/MTBing seeing familly in the area.

all motorway journeys, the car spends most of it's time on the motorway.

Militant monkey

First time poster long time lerker,

Probably will get flamed but not that fussed, but the cynic in me thinks the budget being in a couple of weeks always sees the prices rising. Just in case they reduce fuel duty it look likes a saving even though it just maintains the status quo.

My thoughts only I'm probably wrong

graeme_s-2

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oop North ... Coventry

W1

notsoblue wrote:

[url=http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/effects-of-petrol-duty-on-household-income-news-release/fuel-duty-effects-nr.html]ONS[/url] wrote:

The data also show that the poorest 20 per cent of households paid almost twice as much of their income in duties on fuel than the richest 20 per cent. In 2009/10, the poorest 20 per cent of households paid 3.5 per cent of their disposable income on duty, compared with only 1.8 per cent for the top 20 per cent. Overall, the average UK household spent 2.3 per cent of its disposable income on duties on fuel.

However, in cash terms, the richest 20 per cent of households paid almost three-times the amount paid by the bottom 20 per cent. In 2009/10 the richest 20 per cent of households spent £1,062 on petrol taxes, compared with £365 for the poorest 20 per cent of households. Overall, the average UK household spent £677 on duties on fuel in 2009/10.

Its only 2.3% of your disposable income. Man up and earn more or quit complaining

You mean of course, another 2.3%, after 40% income tax, NI, VAT on buying the car, Insurance tax on insuring it, road tax, parking permit (tax), VAT on maintaining the car etc etc etc.

We really should pay more tax.

cyclingprop

It does feel like a SW london issue to be honest. Plenty of younguns on PT in SE london.

They make kiddy trailers for bikes you know.

CiB

Facts, as I have them to hand.

Diesel in Aug 2010 was floating around 116p, crept up to 120p around Christmas 2010 and hit 130p by Feb 2011. In Mar 2011 it jumped to 137 - 139 and has stayed there ever since, with small fluctuations from 136 to 142p. For those of us who still think Old School, 140.9 is £6.41 per gallon; 130.9 is £5.95 a gallon and 120.9 is £5.50. And I remember my dad filling his Land Rover at about 30p a gallon and stopping as a £1 was plenty thanks.

When will it go down? Never. Fuel has the most elastic pricing known to man and it's proven that we'll keep on paying it. 5 years ago £1 per litre was unthinkable and unmanageable, now we'd kill for that.

Quentin Wilson once of Top Gear was on Simon Mayo's prog last night making the case for a reduction in fuel duty, based on the idea that if people spend more of their income on fuel it leaves less to spend on other things, spending which keeps retailers & other businesses going hence keeps employment etc up. He'd met with the relevant minister soon before going on the wireless and had asked the question 'has the govt done any sums at all to work out the cost-benefit of reducing fuel duty?', and was met with a loud silence indicating the answer No. I'm not ashamed to stand up for this govt (the blue bit at least) but if they don't even do the basics to see whether continually racking up the fuel duty does have a bell curve of net benefit, but that's a pretty indefensible position, not knowing if reducing duty might have a stimulus effect.

rjsterry

DonDaddyD wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Its only 2.3% of your disposable income. Man up and earn more or quit complaining

I think I may have to. The next big thing is nursery prices. I can really begin to see how people are priced out of working. It would be cheaper for me not to drive at all and if I earned £65,000 (rough estimate) it would make more sense for ms DDD not to work at all, even though that is less than our combined income.

It's true that there is something a bit f***ed up about people needing to earn in the top quartile before they can 'break even' on childcare costs. It certainly wouldn't make sense for us. That said, I'm pretty sure the people running my local pre-school aren't raking it in.

veronese68

There may be momentary drops in fuel prices, but overall they will only ever go up until the oil runs out as Puff the magic Dragon said. My son used to fall asleep in the car because he would get more attention around bed time, get rocked to sleep, etc. My daughter never slept in a car. We used to just put her to bed and leave her so she never associated movement with sleep so the car thing didn't work.
Yes, the figure you need to earn at which you are better off with the Mrs not working is going to be much less than your combined income. Combined earnings less childcare cost is the simplest figure to get to it, then if you factor in any increase in benefits you may be entitled to the figure will drop even more. Factor in the money saved on the other halves commuting expenses the figure drops yet again. However, add on all of the coffee mornings, shopping and lunches and the figure can rise significantly depending on how frugal the other half is.

CiB

Graeme_S wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Oop North ... Coventry

Gem. Hinckley's further north than cov, and we're not even close to being north. North is beyond Worksop at least.

As m'colleague here would say, 'bless'.

W1

CiB wrote:

When will it go down? Never. Fuel has the most elastic pricing known to man and it's proven that we'll keep on paying it. 5 years ago £1 per litre was unthinkable and unmanageable, now we'd kill for that.

[Pedantic] Inelastic [/pedantic]

notsoblue

W1 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

[url=http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/rel/mro/news-release/effects-of-petrol-duty-on-household-income-news-release/fuel-duty-effects-nr.html]ONS[/url] wrote:

The data also show that the poorest 20 per cent of households paid almost twice as much of their income in duties on fuel than the richest 20 per cent. In 2009/10, the poorest 20 per cent of households paid 3.5 per cent of their disposable income on duty, compared with only 1.8 per cent for the top 20 per cent. Overall, the average UK household spent 2.3 per cent of its disposable income on duties on fuel.

However, in cash terms, the richest 20 per cent of households paid almost three-times the amount paid by the bottom 20 per cent. In 2009/10 the richest 20 per cent of households spent £1,062 on petrol taxes, compared with £365 for the poorest 20 per cent of households. Overall, the average UK household spent £677 on duties on fuel in 2009/10.

Its only 2.3% of your disposable income. Man up and earn more or quit complaining

You mean of course, another 2.3%, after 40% income tax, NI, VAT on buying the car, Insurance tax on insuring it, road tax, parking permit (tax), VAT on maintaining the car etc etc etc.

We really should pay more tax.

Meh, its a bit of a luxury though isn't it. Its *still* cheaper to drive across country than it is to get the train. And if you feel you *need* a car because of children, well, thats part of the cost of having them and you should probably have taken that into account before you planned to have them. :?

mudcow007

£1.31 - petrol

£1.38 - derv

here in Liver-cool

i remember buying fuel in a jerry can (petrol container) when i had my beetle you could brim it for £3 now its about £7

DonDaddyD

roger merriman wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

£1.40 a litre is fooking steep though. I'm not sure how they (the Man) expects me to get around when cycling is simply not practical. We can't all ride the bus, take public transport which is in itself also expensive.

Should we just stay confined to our respective towns and never venture out unless by horse?

a) you live in london you can take the bus/train you may not want to but thats another matter. or if it's close ie only a few miles walk?

b) cars can be cheap, but people chose to use big expensive cars, so they pay for that running costs, be that fuel/loans and the reduction in value of a car.

all of these are wants not needs.

Ido own a car but it's old and cheap to run, i use it for going back to wales/MTBing seeing familly in the area.

all motorway journeys, the car spends most of it's time on the motorway.

Why do people assume that I don't need a car. Or that my car is new or that it is impractical for the type of driving I do. Even with my Seat Ibiza I used to take the line that I won't drive on Sunday's through London because traffic is just that bad. I've had to relax as this as the lil'un deserves to see his Grandparents, 50% of which live in Essex, which isn't wholly practical to get to by public transport alone hence car. There are other reasons I have a car but the whole, "you can get public transport" isn't always as practical a solution as people make out.