Raspberry PI

YeehaaMcgee

addivllangirb wrote:

Full Visual Studio 2010 is free if you look in the correct place (From Microsoft and Fully Legit) - I'll find a link in a second...

I think you need to be a student to get the full version for free though (please prove me wrong )

Thewaylander

I actually think the fact its bear board might be in its favour though, will be useful to turn it into the brain of your own robot for instance, which you couldn't easily do by puting a pc in your robot....

robot wars could be interesting in a few years? what ya think that could be real cool, very cool little project toy, and a cheap HD media machine as mentioned before. but i got my head stuck on a cool ass robot for some reason.

addivllangirb

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

addivllangirb wrote:

Full Visual Studio 2010 is free if you look in the correct place (From Microsoft and Fully Legit) - I'll find a link in a second...

I think you need to be a student to get the full version for free though (please prove me wrong )

I'll hold my hands up you do indeed need an .ac.uk or similar email address, Evidently the copy i have was from my recent student days... Sorry guys

supersonic

When I saw the title of the thread I expected to see a piece of fruit sporting a big tache and driving a ferrari.

nicklouse

supersonic wrote:

When I saw the title of the thread I expected to see a fruit sporting a big tache and driving a ferrari.

FIFY

YeehaaMcgee

Thewaylander wrote:

I actually think the fact its bear board might be in its favour though, will be useful to turn it into the brain of your own robot for instance, which you couldn't easily do by puting a pc in your robot....

robot wars could be interesting in a few years? what ya think that could be real cool, very cool little project toy, and a cheap HD media machine as mentioned before. but i got my head stuck on a cool ass robot for some reason.

Absolutely, I agree that it is definitely an interesting project for people experimenting at home (although I doubt if it has enough computing horsepower to run a robotic killing machine, sadly).
But, what I do not believe for a second that it will do, is bring on a whole army of new programmers.

nicklouse

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

I actually think the fact its bear board might be in its favour though, will be useful to turn it into the brain of your own robot for instance, which you couldn't easily do by puting a pc in your robot....

robot wars could be interesting in a few years? what ya think that could be real cool, very cool little project toy, and a cheap HD media machine as mentioned before. but i got my head stuck on a cool ass robot for some reason.

Absolutely, I agree that it is definitely an interesting project for people experimenting at home (although I doubt if it has enough computing horsepower to run a robotic killing machine, sadly).
But, what I do not believe for a second that it will do, is bring on a whole army of new programmers.

As they are small enough why just use one?

Thewaylander

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

I actually think the fact its bear board might be in its favour though, will be useful to turn it into the brain of your own robot for instance, which you couldn't easily do by puting a pc in your robot....

robot wars could be interesting in a few years? what ya think that could be real cool, very cool little project toy, and a cheap HD media machine as mentioned before. but i got my head stuck on a cool ass robot for some reason.

Absolutely, I agree that it is definitely an interesting project for people experimenting at home (although I doubt if it has enough computing horsepower to run a robotic killing machine, sadly).
But, what I do not believe for a second that it will do, is bring on a whole army of new programmers.

I do because the education guys in goverment are pushing it for the change in curriculum (no idea if thats spelled right work lappy here). but then it might flop lol.

But at 700mhz nic it actually has the same power as an x-box, and seen pre release versions smashing emulated versions of quake 3 about.. it think thats pretty awesome performance for £21 and plenty of power for distance detection and arming of weapons muhahha :P

valheru

Thewaylander wrote:

Yee most development packages i can find cost a fortune, what free one's are about with a decent amount of community support for the begginer?(this actually a real question as i'm trying to get back in to programming but it's been a loooong time).

There are tonnes of free languages, especially if want to (at least at first) produce non-commercial code. Probably more important is what sort of programs do you want to produce? If you take web development - which is probably the most common type of development, you have 2 basic levels:

Client:
These run on the machine that loads your website - such as javascript/jquery/dojo
Sever:
These run of the server that hosts the site - such as java/c#/c++/sql

As a basic rule of thumb server side languages take a little more time to learn, and generally need an IDE to program in. Client side code is fairly easy to pickup and something like Aptana is all you need (and its free). With the HTML5 client side code (often called scripting languages) have become a lot more powerful - thats where i would start. (it also makes no difference whether your machines runs windows/linux/ios).

YeehaaMcgee

nicklouse wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Absolutely, I agree that it is definitely an interesting project for people experimenting at home (although I doubt if it has enough computing horsepower to run a robotic killing machine, sadly).
But, what I do not believe for a second that it will do, is bring on a whole army of new programmers.

As they are small enough why just use one?

Because one giant Bagger288 of a killing machine is much deadlier, and more entertaining that a hundred little ones armed with toothpicks!
(that's my interpretation of your question and I'm sticking to it)

Thewaylander wrote:

But at 700mhz nic it actually has the same power as an x-box,

Not only is clock speed a bad indicator of CPU performance, but also, the Xbox was not powerful enough to build your own Assimo, let alone a terminator.
(Despite what Tim-CAD says )

El Zomba

Thewaylander wrote:

But at 700mhz nic it actually has the same power as an x-box, and seen pre release versions smashing emulated versions of quake 3 about.. it think thats pretty awesome performance for £21 and plenty of power for distance detection and arming of weapons muhahha :P

Wow, it can run a twelve year-old PC game. RAW POWER!

Yeehaa's right about the XBox comparison too. If memory serves me correctly, console architecture is much more streamlined than PC architecture, so you can tend to do more with less.

Raymondavalon

I've registered interest for a Raspberry with RS.
The reason I want one is to experiment and see if my (poor. very poor) coding skills are still as shyte as ever
It's also a fun little item and a bargain at the price.

Norway's FXI Technologies have a similar offering, called Cotton Candy, but not very cheap at £139. I do like the packaging of the FXI product, as in the way it's made with a Micro SD card reader and mini HDMI2 connector with audio and integrated 802.11B/G WiFi

nicklouse

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

nicklouse wrote:

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

Absolutely, I agree that it is definitely an interesting project for people experimenting at home (although I doubt if it has enough computing horsepower to run a robotic killing machine, sadly).
But, what I do not believe for a second that it will do, is bring on a whole army of new programmers.

As they are small enough why just use one?

Because one giant Bagger288 of a killing machine is much deadlier, and more entertaining that a hundred little ones armed with toothpicks!
(that's my interpretation of your question and I'm sticking to it)

Thewaylander wrote:

But at 700mhz nic it actually has the same power as an x-box,

Not only is clock speed a bad indicator of CPU performance, but also, the Xbox was not powerful enough to build your own Assimo, let alone a terminator.
(Despite what Tim-CAD says )

No one for navigation. One for defence. One for the flamethrowers and a forth for pile driving the opposition into the deck.

YeehaaMcgee

And, one for making coffee whilst you watch the carnage?

Thewaylander

yeh kick ass coffee machine at work now :P

Cleat Eastwood

valheru wrote:

Thewaylander wrote:

valheru wrote:

I'm not sure what is the point of encouraging people to programme, when the UK is hell bent on exporting it all to India. This is not a good career choice to be encouraging.

Actually its a great time,

The whole ARM arcitecture is british in design and some of the great developers are in ireland for instance google so its not awful at all :S the problem is we just have a spot of no one with the relevant skillls,

Apple was brought into it by me just to point the ease of development on some platforms compared to others that make up the quoted figure.

I think it will allow schools to have alot of useable hardware for kids to work on, I was lucky at the school i was in that it had a lot of IT from funding won, but not all schools have this and it does provide a cheap cheap way of getting an programming lab set up

Yee most development packages i can find cost a fortune, what free one's are about with a decent amount of community support for the begginer?(this actually a real question as i'm trying to get back in to programming but it's been a loooong time).

But at the end of it, it's all opinion we will see what happens over the next year or so, i personally am very excited. so hopefull some other excited geeks come in and have a gossip too

Wow - if you think objective-c gives ease of development you must be stuck in 80s

objective c is an awesome modification of c, and its the only way to go if you want to develop for iphone. You can make an app for apple for free using x code, games if you want to utilise the free framework cocos2d, all you need is to pay the bucks to be an apple developer. Theres lua too, utilised by corona - you only pay when you want to upload your app for approval.

Best way I find for kidz (tm) to learn programming is with actionscript in flash

bompington

Actually, at a really basic level (see what I did there?) I find it's hard to beat LOGO for getting kids programming - mainly because you can write very simple programmes that produce striking graphics. And surprisingly capable too, even if it doesn't transfer very well to more serious languages.
On the rare occasions (I teach at a special school) when we want to use anything more, we just use VB in Office, which has the advantage that you can generate code by recording macros.

YeehaaMcgee

bompington wrote:

Actually, at a really basic level (see what I did there?) I find it's hard to beat LOGO for getting kids programming - mainly because you can write very simple programmes that produce striking graphics. And surprisingly capable too, even if it doesn't transfer very well to more serious languages.

I used to love LOGO. We even had a pair of LOGO robots in primary school which we could program from the BBC Micros, and the teacher would split us into groups, to see which group could program their robot to get through a set maze in the shortest time, with the fewest mistakes, or to write a word quickest and so on.
It is a great tool to teach the basic principles of "this command happens first, then this other one", and the step by step nature of programming.
Later, but still in primary school, we had something similar with some kind of Lego or mechano setup. Basically a simple logic controlled process. We could use the computer to program a crane we'd made, for example, by connecting the various motors, lights and so on via a breadboard type thing to the serial port of an Acorn Archimedes.
Ah, happy days!

Thewaylander

We had a little domed thing with a pen on the bottom, not sure if we used an acorn though age is is getting to me lol

IcarusGreen

Daz555

Regardless of the strengths and weaknesses of the Pi - we can applaud the efforts at least of this NON PROFIT organisation.

It really is down the the educators to make something of this. I am an IT Pro myself and my wife is a teacher. I have writted to her school asking that they at least look at the potential opportunties - would be ideal for robotics projects for example and such learning experiences are great because there is overlap between subjects - science, computing, and design technology for example.

That it is so small gives it potential for incorporation into so many design and technology projects - the sort of things kids make/invent for their GCSE submissions.

Like I said, it is down to the educators.

Thewaylander

Daz555 wrote:

Regardless of the strengths and weaknesses of the Pi - we can applaud the efforts at least of this NON PROFIT organisation.

It really is down the the educators to make something of this. I am an IT Pro myself and my wife is a teacher. I have writted to her school asking that they at least look at the potential opportunties - would be ideal for robotics projects for example and such learning experiences are great because there is overlap between subjects - science, computing, and design technology for example.

That it is so small gives it potential for incorporation into so many design and technology projects - the sort of things kids make/invent for their GCSE submissions.

Like I said, it is down to the educators.

So your trying to say we are srewed then really?

El Zomba

Daz555 wrote:

I have writted to her school

Did you do it in the cute handwriting with the backwards letters and your age in brackets after your name too?

Thewaylander

El Zomba wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

I have writted to her school

Did you do it in the cute handwriting with the backwards letters and your age in brackets after your name too?

No he had chance to use a spell checker while not in work looking over his shoulder trying to make sure he isn't caught skiving

Daz555

Thewaylander wrote:

El Zomba wrote:

Daz555 wrote:

I have writted to her school

Did you do it in the cute handwriting with the backwards letters and your age in brackets after your name too?

No he had chance to use a spell checker while not in work looking over his shoulder trying to make sure he isn't caught skiving

I wouldn'ted get caught skiving. Even if I did I don't care cos my dad is biggerer than your dads.

Agent57

bompington wrote:

The proportion of UK households without a PC is around 20%, true, but how many of these are going to rush out and buy a Pi?

I think the aim of the Raspberry Pi Foundation is to be able to give one of these to every child as they enter a given year at school (e.g. year 7). If they can find sponsorship or raise the funds to make that dream come true, it doesn't rely on parents going out and buying one for their kids.

I've got mine on order (ETA April 16th, according to Farnell).

Agent57

Cleat Eastwood wrote:

Best way I find for kidz (tm) to learn programming is with actionscript in flash

But Flash isn't free, so it's not really something kids can play with at home. A more universal approach might involve Javascript; it's already available in just about every PC in the home. With Microsoft's aim to update people from IE6 and 7 where possible, those PCs should also have access to a reasonable browser, whether it's IE9, Firefox, Chrome, Safari or whatever.

Javascript and the HTML5 canvas enables kids to do stuff that makes them go "Wow! I made that!" without having to buy software. Here's a tree! I made that, after a day of JS coaching. Or how about some fireworks (which I didn't make).

Agent57

YeehaaMcgee wrote:

We still need knowledgeable teachers and a curriculum that supports kids learning to code.
As it stands, I.T. teachers are considered something of a joke, probably because of the limited scope of "I.T." teaching in schools. What we really need is to change the curriculum and draw in more talented teachers, not a cheap Linux box.

Luckily for us, Gove more or less announced the death of ICT in January, giving schools more freedom with computing curricula. There are certainly lots of people who agree that we need to teach kids how to produce software (or interest them in other digital creativity options), not just use it, such as Computing at School.

If the Raspberry Pi can go any way towards sparking interest in computing amongst our kids, even if it's outside of school, great! I have my fingers crossed, because the BBC Micro filled that role for me, and I probably wouldn't be doing what I do if it hadn't existed. Shame I work too far from home; I'd love to set up a Pi-based after-school club at my son's primary school.

Torres

I've got to agree with Yeehaa.

As cool as it is to essentialy have a computer for less than 30 quid, it isn't going to teach the "yoof" how to programme.
Even if a percentage of homes don't have a computer, you'd be hard pressed to find a school without a computer suite now. Furthermore, there's plenty of free coding tools online so cost isn't an obstacle in my opinion.

The biggest problem, is having people who know how to code to teach the kids (It'd probably help if it was on the curriculum first mind.) I'm currently in the second year of a physics degree and I can tell you the thing I'm finding the hardest is programming; had I been eased in to it at school and learned the basics (like what a "flotaing point number" is, or an "array" for that matter...) then I might have been able to hit the ground running; as opposed to sitting here struggling to plot a graph...

jndb72

The ball and chain teaches ICT at secondary school level. What she has to teach is an absolute joke. Teaching ICT these days involves teaching kids how to USE applications such as Work and Excel. Programming is not on the agenda. It's all about targets these days and not about teaching kids anything wothwhile. Kids are passing A-Level and going onto university degress without ever haveing seen a line of code.

Tis all a bit of a joke.