Proud and Prejudiced - last night

mudcow007

well anyone watch it?

if you didn't it was basically about the English Defence League an a group of Islamist radicals.

Linky

dhope

I saw the advert and decided that it'd probably annoy me and not change my opinion of any of them, so I went to bed instead.

rjsterry

Just caught a couple of minutes of it. Difficult to judge from that, but it seemed hard to have any understanding of people so willingly blinkered in their view of the world.

bails87

I didn't watch the documentary, but I'm sure they're both a bunch of d*ckheads. It's like the South Park episode with the vote between the turd sandwich and the giant douche.

clarkey cat

watched about half an hour of it and its the same old crap. Some nutter Islamist wants Shariah law in Luton and an old school mate of his (who had renamed himself after a famous Luton football hooligan) is going around being a daft racist and causing a ruckus with normal muslims too. Both morons.

The 'Cohesion Officer' for Luton Borough Council is obviously worth every penny though...

"they are just annoying. I wish they'd just go away. They are tedious"

anonymousblackfg

I watched the whole thing, quite interesting, the Islamic fundermentalist was just a wind up merchant who stopped as soon as the police started arresting them (I must say their conduct was pretty appalling regarding their treatment of victims families regardless of whether you think the victims cause was just). The bloke from EDF just proved himself as a chav football hooligan who's motivation was really just to get in a good scrap. He did come across as slightly sensible/well reasoned in some parts but then proved himself utter pikey scum in other parts. I was left with the impression the latter was the true image.

If they both, or any of their mates got hit by a bus I don't think the world be be any worse off.

rick_chasey

You mean you didn't wall watch the Tube (to make you feel smug about yourselves) or Empire with Paxman (to make you feel smug about yourselves)?

Disappointing!

notsoblue

mudcow007 wrote:

well anyone watch it?

if you didn't it was basically about the English Defence League an a group of Islamist radicals.

Linky

Didn't watch it, would have annoyed me too much.

During filming for this documentary Tommy and Sayful both knew we were filming with their rival. Far from being worried by this, they both encouraged it: each man believes the other proves his point. For Tommy, Sayful represents what he sees as Islam: an offensive ideology at odds with British values and determined to bring down our society. For Sayful, Tommy represents all that is wrong with Western culture: morally corrupt, valueless, violent and inherently Islamophobic.

They both justify eachother's existence. Its not about jihad or racism, its about having a group of followers that hang on your every word and forcing the authorities to make a fuss about you every time you plan a march.

bails87

ER, anonymousblackfg....

EDF:

EDL:

notsoblue

bails87 wrote:

ER, anonymousblackfg....

EDF:

What a chav.

Koncordski

Saw a bit of it, pretty tedious. Both groups thoroughly deserve each other, it's got a nice symmetry if you think about it.

roger_merriman

caught it on catch up tv, while drinking tea.

Both foolish men, niether made much sence.

oddly the thug seemed more media savy.

On the plus side the fact that neither gains much support does show as ever that people are on the whole sensible.

bails87

Yep, as long as 'the man on the street' remembers that the idiot muslims represent the typical British muslim in the same way that the EDL represents the typical (non muslim) British person.....ie not at all.

rick_chasey

bails87 wrote:

Yep, as long as 'the man on the street' remembers that the idiot muslims represent the typical British muslim in the same way that the EDL represents the typical (non muslim) British person.....ie not at all.

D'ya think that's the case?

notsoblue

roger merriman wrote:

On the plus side the fact that neither gains much support does show as ever that people are on the whole sensible.

Yep. Thats quite encouraging really.

anonymousblackfg

The tube was on earlier, I saw a bit of that, how on earth they find some mug scamming the system and at worse give them a £100 fine, £500 would be far more applicable, we could raise a sh*t load more in revenue from just sorting out sensible fines for criminal activity.

As for EDF, you correct Bails87, their views are appalling, almost as bad as those EDL chaps.

rick_chasey

anonymousblackfg wrote:

The tube was on earlier, I saw a bit of that, how on earth they find some mug scamming the system and at worse give them a £100 fine, £500 would be far more applicable, we could raise a sh*t load more in revenue from just sorting out sensible fines for criminal activity.

As for EDF, you correct Bails87, their views are appalling, almost as bad as those EDL chaps.

The first guy they got they did for £1000 odd I think.

It's more the humiliation of being found guilty I suspect.

I didn't realise it was so easy to fare-dodge! I thought it was pretty impossible without being REALLY obvious.

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Yep, as long as 'the man on the street' remembers that the idiot muslims represent the typical British muslim in the same way that the EDL represents the typical (non muslim) British person.....ie not at all.

D'ya think that's the case?

For who?

The muslims, absolutely, there's a fringe of maniacs, as in any group, who don't represent the mainstream at all.

The EDL, their official aims aren't all that bad, but in reality they just turn up for a fight. And talk about going "n***er" and "p*ki bashing". If anyone's on twitter, follow @everythingedl. So although they feed off the islamiphobia that's in the papers pretty much every day, they're actions as a result of it are very much a minority. What do they get at their demos? A few hundred most of the time. The RBL and H4H tell them to p**s off whenever they try to gain some credibility by hanging onto their coat tails. They are undoubtably a more substantial movement that the extremist muslims though. How many people turned up to the MAC protests?

And how many people turned up at the (EDL linked) torching of the takeaway in Hyde the other night, and the asociated violence aimed at the police? An ex army guy, who was an EDL member tried to blow up a mosque in Stoke on Trent a while ago, and was jailed for it. Look at the response when they 'demo' in a town. Hundreds of police turn out, shops shut down, people stay at home....and they claim that it's muslims who are turning places into 'no go areas'.

Edit: So the EDL are also representative of a tiny minority, but it's a tiny minority of a bigger group, so there seem to be more of them.

rick_chasey

I kind meant, do you think the 'man in the street' makes a distinction between extremist Islamist nutters and normal Muslims, in the same way they're likely to make the distinction between some extremist hooligan and you're average non-Muslim brit?

bails87

Rick Chasey wrote:

I kind meant, do you think the 'man in the street' makes a distinction between extremist Islamist nutters and normal Muslims, in the same way they're likely to make the distinction between some extremist hooligan and you're average non-Muslim brit?

Ah right.

I think a lot don't make the distinction, unfortunately.

But it happens with many 'out groups'. Like all cyclists are red light jumping, granny running over lycra louts. But I'm a driver, and I'm nothing like the joyriding 18 year olds who race souped up Corsas around council estates.

Out group = all the same.

mrc1

Rick Chasey wrote:

I didn't realise it was so easy to fare-dodge! I thought it was pretty impossible without being REALLY obvious.

Not that I'm planning to do it 8) as I avoid the tube like the plague, but how did they do it out of interest? I was with you in thinking it was pretty impossible.

Slapster_UK

Thought the lady from the Luton Cohesion Team (whatever that is!!!) had the right idea - "Its like kids at a p*ssing contest......"

Summed it up for me......

rick_chasey

mrc1 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I didn't realise it was so easy to fare-dodge! I thought it was pretty impossible without being REALLY obvious.

Not that I'm planning to do it 8) as I avoid the tube like the plague, but how did they do it out of interest? I was with you in thinking it was pretty impossible.

A few things.

Some stations out in the sticks don't have barriers

Some walk through very quickly behind someone else and cover the 'sensor'.

One guy so abusive and abrasive in a lowly manned station (again, out in the sticks) he just sauntered through, bashing his way past the gates.

One guy would go through as normal and then immediately go to the 'out' barrier, check himself out without going through the barrier, and carry on into the tube.

But yeah. Was surprised by the amount of middle aged women who were caught (when plainclothed ticket inspectors mounted the train, demanding to check everyone's tickets).

I think there's a lot of buying a ticket for zone one and then heading out into zone 3.

mudcow007

re - fare dodging

on the diesel line that goes from Lime Street station Liverpool to Manchester, you can just walk on at Lime Street its only occasionally an inspector will check tickets.

rick_chasey

Indeed, it's the same at Cannon Street, but I wouldn't be able to get out at the other end if I hadn't checked in.

Ben6899

I don't condone fare dodging at all, but news snippets like this make it very tempting to give it a go:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-12139796

So there's a bit of "eye for an eye", but also "two wrongs do not make a right".

mrc1

Rick Chasey wrote:

mrc1 wrote:

Rick Chasey wrote:

I didn't realise it was so easy to fare-dodge! I thought it was pretty impossible without being REALLY obvious.

Not that I'm planning to do it 8) as I avoid the tube like the plague, but how did they do it out of interest? I was with you in thinking it was pretty impossible.

A few things.

Some stations out in the sticks don't have barriers

Some walk through very quickly behind someone else and cover the 'sensor'.

One guy so abusive and abrasive in a lowly manned station (again, out in the sticks) he just sauntered through, bashing his way past the gates.

One guy would go through as normal and then immediately go to the 'out' barrier, check himself out without going through the barrier, and carry on into the tube.

But yeah. Was surprised by the amount of middle aged women who were caught (when plainclothed ticket inspectors mounted the train, demanding to check everyone's tickets).

I think there's a lot of buying a ticket for zone one and then heading out into zone 3.

Ah ok - not quite Ocean's 11 then...