cannock or general trail riding hardtail teqnique???

stanny_uk

Am i pissing in the wind trying to keep up with my mates on my hardtail down rough trails??? They just float over rough stuff on full floaters or do i need to adopt new style to cope with real rough stuff????

bennett_346

If their skill level is the same as yours, they'll always be faster on FS.

journey_man_pro

stanny_uk wrote:

Am i pissing in the wind trying to keep up with my mates on my hardtail down rough trails??? They just float over rough stuff on full floaters or do i need to adopt new style to cope with real rough stuff????

I run a giant xtc ht and can't keep up with my bro on his fs anthem. Both similar capability. Was much closer at llandegla as cannock is real beat up at the mo.

stanny_uk

So its get better or buy one then?!??Lol ive actually had bars shaken clean out my hands trying to live with em on real rough bits!!!

bennett_346

stanny_uk wrote:

So its get better or buy one then?!??

Basically

cooldad

Or just enjoy at your speed. Presumably they'll wait for you at the bottom.

Clank

Enjoy the speed you ride downhills,

......and paste 'em going up hills.

Mental Mickey

Are you being timed? Why worry?

The Northern Monkey

Ride faster, stay off the brakes and look ahead.

Sound contradictory, but the faster you go, the easier it is to skip over the rough stuff on a hardtail. All about confidence.

I'm not saying that you will keep up with them, but if you want to try, you need to commit!
Its easier if you know the trail through, as with a HT you actually have to think about your lines instead of just powering through everything.

stanny_uk

hmmmm this mountainbike thing was only supposed to be bit of fun leisure/ fitness but boys being boys soon becomes a bit competitive lol.. especially from the background we come from superbike and motocross racing! !

Briggo

Clank wrote:

Enjoy the speed you ride downhills,

......and paste 'em going up hills.

Ah the wonderful myth of how HTs are the bestestestest going up hills.

Waaaay too many variables, same as going downhill.

bails87

What forks have you got? Bars being shaken out of your hands wouldn't change much if you put the same forks on a FS.

dirty face

stanny_uk wrote:

Am i pissing in the wind trying to keep up with my mates on my hardtail down rough trails??? They just float over rough stuff on full floaters or do i need to adopt new style to cope with real rough stuff????

just work on your skill and technique, i ride a HT at the mo and can out run most of my mates on their full suss. Although I too get battered around a lot. Confidence comes with practice and getting to know the trails. I also ride clipped in so i can 'lift' to bike over some of the rougher sections, which is the same effect as they would have when 'floating' over the knarly bits using their suspension.

dirty face

i should also add that i can beat them riding at cannock too as you mention in your question. it is a great place to ride and develop your skills cuc there is so much variation around FTD & Monkey. Try hitting the red run at stile cop for some DH practice, its a good DH trail and there's lots more there to learn on (but be carefull as some of the other stuff there is quite extreme especially for a HT, but the red run is fine)

Rushmore

bails87 wrote:

What forks have you got? Bars being shaken out of your hands wouldn't change much if you put the same forks on a FS.

+1 depending on what you have it may just be a set up issue on your forks...

If they are SR Suntour forks then upgrade as those things are tosh and don't really work properly..

Get some rock shox and your front end will float over the rough stuff too.. The back end will still skit about.. But although you may be slower.. Your skills will get better faster then floating around on a full Susser...

Clank

Briggo wrote:

Clank wrote:

Enjoy the speed you ride downhills,

......and paste 'em going up hills.

Ah the wonderful myth of how HTs are the bestestestest going up hills.

I get your point that it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation (guilty as charged ).

In my defence however, at Cannock, I've found the climbs easier on a HT (which is why I've yet to invest in a full-susser).

Briggo

Clank wrote:

Briggo wrote:

Clank wrote:

Enjoy the speed you ride downhills,

......and paste 'em going up hills.

Ah the wonderful myth of how HTs are the bestestestest going up hills.

I get your point that it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation (guilty as charged ).

In my defence however, at Cannock, I've found the climbs easier on a HT (which is why I've yet to invest in a full-susser).

Thats the beauty of lockout on the rear for fireroad climbs.

bennett_346

Briggo wrote:

Clank wrote:

Briggo wrote:

Clank wrote:

Enjoy the speed you ride downhills,

......and paste 'em going up hills.

Ah the wonderful myth of how HTs are the bestestestest going up hills.

I get your point that it's a bit of a sweeping generalisation (guilty as charged ).

In my defence however, at Cannock, I've found the climbs easier on a HT (which is why I've yet to invest in a full-susser).

Thats the beauty of lockout on the rear for fireroad climbs.

Most hardtails will still climb better than a locked out FS

bails87

I ride a Carbon 456, but demoed a Yeti ASR5 (at Cannock!) today, the Yeti flew up climbs, on the loose scrabbly stuff it was probably better than my HT!

bennett_346

bails87 wrote:

I ride a Carbon 456, but demoed a Yeti ASR5 (at Cannock!) today, the Yeti flew up climbs, on the loose scrabbly stuff it was probably better than my HT!

So not a fireroad then!

bails87

bennett_346 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

I ride a Carbon 456, but demoed a Yeti ASR5 (at Cannock!) today, the Yeti flew up climbs, on the loose scrabbly stuff it was probably better than my HT!

So not a fireroad then!

Yes, on a loose, scrabbly fireroad.

bennett_346

bails87 wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

I ride a Carbon 456, but demoed a Yeti ASR5 (at Cannock!) today, the Yeti flew up climbs, on the loose scrabbly stuff it was probably better than my HT!

So not a fireroad then!

Yes, on a loose, scrabbly fireroad.

I find it hard to believe that the addition of rear suspension helped you to ride over loose stones

bails87

FWIW, I can outpace lawman on his Mojo HD on most of the Monkey and FTD trails at cannock, I don't think an FS is necessarily the answer to the OPs question. I was just addressing the "HT's always climb better" point that someone made.

And the word 'fireroad' is probably making you think the stuff I'm talking about is smoother than it actually is. On a smooth climb, then there's no benefit to FS, and even locked out, you've still got the weight. But for this particular climb, with this particular bike with this particular rider, the FS dug in and climbed better than I think my HT would have in the same situation.

bennett_346

This is the kind of fireroad i assumed Briggo meant.

bails87

The OP didn't mention fireroads....

Some of the ones at Cannock are fine, some are extremely steep, with gullies where landrover wheels have torn then up, which are full of fist size rocks/pebbles and dust or mud depending on the time of year.

bennett_346

bails87 wrote:

The OP didn't mention fireroads....

Edited

bails87

Back to the OP, no, in all likelihood you don't need a full sus to keep up. Good forks, good tyres and good legs, as well as a bit of chutzpah will help!

stanny_uk

thanks for all your input.. i upgraded to reba dual air forks a while back so have that area covered.. after reading peoples views i'm gonna stave off temptation and stick with the hard tail and learn to ride it and find this technique thing you all talk of lol.. what about a chase based school,, would a school be benifitial to me do you think??? anyone done it??

dirty face

Not done it but any skills course would definatley benefit you as you may well find out some useful tips to improve your riding. Sometimes its the small things that make a difference, usually the things that you wouldn't normally notice. As i said in my earlier reply, I can outrun my mates on my HT even though they are all on a full suss, both uphill and down. Think about where you are looking, look ahead instead of down to improve speed, be smooth and 'ride' the trail as apposed to just trying to ride the bike over stuff!

Northwind

1) Get better
2) Beat your mates on your hardtail
3) Do this

If that's not working out then get some slower mates.

I like using the example of Jesse Wigman, who rode a Specialized P3 to 4th place overall in the no fuss endurance downhill at fort william last year. Now OK, maybe he'd have won if he'd been on a top end dh bike, who knows, but it proves you don't need a bouncer to go fast on hard trails.

timpop

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Ride faster, stay off the brakes and look ahead.

Sound contradictory, but the faster you go, the easier it is to skip over the rough stuff on a hardtail. All about confidence.

I'm not saying that you will keep up with them, but if you want to try, you need to commit!
Its easier if you know the trail through, as with a HT you actually have to think about your lines instead of just powering through everything.

Speed is your friend...
It is true that you can point a good full sus pretty much anywhere and get away with it but picking your line is better no matter what you're on. Learning that on a hard tail transfers well to when you're on a full sus and will help your climbs and smooth, fluid lines on the descents. On both bikes.
A skills course may be a good idea, you never know what you’ll pick up and a good coach can recognise areas in your technique you can improve.
Have fun!