When a Red Light will not change?

antlaff

On the below junction my steel commuter will not trigger the lights, from the magnetic strips imbedded on the road. As such I have to wait, as per this morning, for a following car to trigger the lights to change. What would you do - RLJ, get off the bike and walk round?

http://g.co/maps/24ydp

UndercoverElephant

I think it's legal to RLJ in that circumstance.

shm_uk

Based on the information I've gleaned from cycling forums, I believe it's acceptable to RLJ in any situation where it's simply convenient for you to do so, regardless of legality.

EKE_38BPM

If you were in a car and a traffic light would not change, you would wait, wait for a bit more, decided the light was broken, wait for a bit more to be sure, tut, wait and then carefully go through whilst making full and effective observation.

Why not do the same on a bike?

Specialized Needs

And after whichever advice you decide to follow then, if you can be bothered, report it to the appropriate highway authority to get the sensor altered. It sounds like this is a regular route for you, so that might help for the future?

Edit: added link to fillthathole.org.uk, as you are supposed to be able to report all road defects through that.

meanredspider

Worth a call to the local traffic plods? The risk is you get an answer you don't like. There's certainly nothing illegal about getting off and pushing your bike in worst case.

I've been going onto the company responsible for lights for months & months about a ped/cycle crossing light they "repaired" last year that now takes forever to change. They keep promising to look at it (today apparently).

t4tomo

If you are heading theby way the camera is facing on that link then:

- The opposing traffic is only coming from 1 direction
- you have an excellent view of it

If lights don't change and its clear then simply carry on, you aren't putting anyone at risk.

On a separate note was please to see this morning in London that the roadworks that have been going on on my route were to rip out some traffic lights and replace with simple cross roads and zebra crossings.

Traffic was moving much better, although as it had a segregated cycle lane with independent cycle lane and car lights which stopped cycle to allow cars to turn left, I can forseee a left hook accident unless they merge the cycle lane back in with the cars.

iainment

Whether it's broken or not I'd go if safe to do so. As long as you don't endanger other road users or yourself I don't see what the problem is.

Where's that devilish smiley thing when you need it?

Initialised

You could try using really strong magnets strapped under your BB to trip the sensor.

notsoblue

Initialised wrote:

You could try using really strong magnets strapped under your BB to trip the sensor.

What are you some kind of engineer?!

Shaggy4934

Sadly, many of the replies are wrong.

The law states that if you fail to stop at a red light, then you commit and offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act and as such are liable to a number of outcomes if caught by the "old bill" - on the spot fine of £30, reported for Summons to local Magistrates (where if found guilty you are liable to costs starting at £100 and a fine larger than £30 you could have had on the spot).

If you do go through and get caught, using the excuse "i thought it was broken" wont work. You will still be fined/summoned to court and then the onus is on you to prove that the lights were broken (at extra cost to you and your solicitor) and not the Highways Agency/Council.

My advice, either wait it out (boring i know), or get off, walk round and get back on at the other side of the junction. As one reader states, you could try speaking to the Highways Authority/ Council and see if there is anything they could do to help you.

Sorry

EKE_38BPM

Shaggy4934 wrote:

Sadly, many of the replies are wrong.

The law states that if you fail to stop at a red light, then you commit and offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act and as such are liable to a number of outcomes if caught by the "old bill" - on the spot fine of £30, reported for Summons to local Magistrates (where if found guilty you are liable to costs starting at £100 and a fine larger than £30 you could have had on the spot).

If you do go through and get caught, using the excuse "i thought it was broken" wont work. You will still be fined/summoned to court and then the onus is on you to prove that the lights were broken (at extra cost to you and your solicitor) and not the Highways Agency/Council.

My advice, either wait it out (boring i know), or get off, walk round and get back on at the other side of the junction. As one reader states, you could try speaking to the Highways Authority/ Council and see if there is anything they could do to help you.

Sorry

What would you do in a car then? Wait until a repair team comes out to fix it?
How do you prove a light is broken and stuck on red?

I'm not saying you're wrong, just asking the question.

tailwindhome

HEY!

THAT'S NOT LONDON!!!!

If I was coming from the Portrush side past Dunnes I'd be on the cyclepath then cross the junction 'a la pedestrian' at the crossing and rejoin the cycle path heading out of Coleraine.

Coming the other direction past the boat club and left onto the bridge I'd probably be glad of the break and stop at lights....if I got bored I'd probably break the lights...or hop onto the pavement and rejoin the cycle path

Shaggy4934

Its exactly the same for a vehicle. If you go through a red light and get caught, the onus will be on you to go to court and prove to the court that the lights were broken.

If it is broken, then it will be plainly obvious to everyone, especially plod who will either have been sat there waiting for a RLJ (vehicle normally) and can see its faulty or because the lights for the other directions will be stuck for an inordinate amount of time and drivers (being the ever patient motorists they are) would already have rung the police to complain.

Personally, I wouldnt want to jump a red light irrespective of "i think its safe to do so" as i wouldnt want to start the Councils cyclist death statistics for that junction.

MrChuck

Dunno about legally, but morally in that situation I see no problem just going through it.
I've no patience with RLJers generally and I don't do it myself, but my view is basically that when the lights are set up to ignore me then 'the system' is taking the pi$$ so it's OK to return the favour.

Initialised

notsoblue wrote:

Initialised wrote:

You could try using really strong magnets strapped under your BB to trip the sensor.

What are you some kind of engineer?!

Yes I am.

EKE_38BPM

Shaggy4934 wrote:

Its exactly the same for a vehicle. If you go through a red light and get caught, the onus will be on you to go to court and prove to the court that the lights were broken.

If it is broken, then it will be plainly obvious to everyone, especially plod who will either have been sat there waiting for a RLJ (vehicle normally) and can see its faulty or because the lights for the other directions will be stuck for an inordinate amount of time and drivers (being the ever patient motorists they are) would already have rung the police to complain.

Personally, I wouldnt want to jump a red light irrespective of "i think its safe to do so" as i wouldnt want to start the Councils cyclist death statistics for that junction.

It is rare, but I once sat at these lights for ages. I waited for at least 3 minutes but when traffic backed up behind me and started beeping, I eventually went through the light very carefully.
The light was stuck on red for me and I assume stuck on green for the road I wanted to join. Nothing was visibly broken, but the lights were stuck.
How could I prove in a court that the lights were broken?

I should say that I was in a car at the time. If I was on a bike I would have jumped the red light, at high speed, whilst riding on the pavement, at night, with no lights, dressed all in black, riding no handed, whilst texting and listening to music. Like all us cyclists do.

antlaff

To be honest if there is no cars about I RLJ, have talked to the Road Service with no joy, and they are only based 500 yds away - its on there list to look at!! Just wanted some justifiaction that RLJ'g in this situation was slightly legit!!

TWH - I take you don't actually use that cycle path? The amount of crap and broken glass is crazy and none of the local inbreds can distinguish the cycle path from the pavement. Only use the one way system.

sketchley

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/36

Drivers to comply with traffic signs.

(1)Where a traffic sign, being a sign—

(a)of the prescribed size, colour and type, or

(b)of another character authorised by the Secretary of State under the provisions in that behalf of the M1Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984,

has been lawfully placed on or near a road, a person driving or propelling a vehicle who fails to comply with the indication given by the sign is guilty of an offence.

Guess you cannot get off and push then either....

daviesee

I don't know if this is relevant to the junction in question but......

One junction I use will not be triggered if I ride to the left of the lane. If I ride in the centre - bingo!
Could be worth a try.

tailwindhome

antlaff wrote:

TWH - I take you don't actually use that cycle path? The amount of crap and broken glass is crazy and none of the local inbreds can distinguish the cycle path from the pavement. Only use the one way system.

Not regularly. But I didn't think it was that bad.

Would go that way to circumvent the one way system and head out towards Riverside/Somerset on some (occasional) training rides. Would also sometimes take the kids that way. Parking in Dunnes Car Park you can access the cyclepath along the river to Somerset....

As for the inbreds I find if I stick to the footpath and they stick to the cyclepath is pretty straightforward.

wintonbina

Shaggy4934 wrote:

Sadly, many of the replies are wrong.

The law states that if you fail to stop at a red light, then you commit and offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988 and Schedule 2 of the Road Traffic Offenders Act and as such are liable to a number of outcomes if caught by the "old bill" - on the spot fine of £30, reported for Summons to local Magistrates (where if found guilty you are liable to costs starting at £100 and a fine larger than £30 you could have had on the spot).

If you do go through and get caught, using the excuse "i thought it was broken" wont work. You will still be fined/summoned to court and then the onus is on you to prove that the lights were broken (at extra cost to you and your solicitor) and not the Highways Agency/Council.

My advice, either wait it out (boring i know), or get off, walk round and get back on at the other side of the junction. As one reader states, you could try speaking to the Highways Authority/ Council and see if there is anything they could do to help you.

Sorry

Actually I don't think that is strictly correct. see
More details on RLJs: www.tfl.gov.uk/asset
s/downloads/business
andpartners/traffic-
note-8-cycling-red-l
ights.pdf
If you aren't recognised by the so called electronic loop :? you can,if safe to do so proceed through the said Junction.....but what do I know!

kelsen

wintonbina wrote:

Actually I don't think that is strictly correct. see
More details on RLJs:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf
If you aren't recognised by the so called electronic loop :? you can,if safe to do so proceed through the said Junction.....but what do I know!

That's an interesting report.

The following general conclusions can be made based on the evidence described
above:
• The majority of cyclists (84%) obey red traffic lights.
• Violation is not endemic, but 1 in 6 (16%) of cyclists do jump a red light, and at
this level may encourage more to do so in the future.
• A much greater number of men cycle during the morning and evening peaks.
When a comparison is made of the behaviour of male and female cyclists it
can be concluded that men are slightly more likely to violate red lights (17%
compared to 13%).
• In general cyclists who ride through red lights are more likely to do so whilst
travelling straight ahead at a junction. They are least likely to do so when
turning right.
• Red light violations are most common by cyclists travelling towards central
London in the morning, and away from central London in the evening.

Survey is from 2007. I know it's only a sample taken under specific conditions, but it'd be interesting to see if that 16% has changed significantly.

• In general cyclists who ride through red lights are more likely to do so whilst
travelling straight ahead at a junction. They are least likely to do so when
turning right.

No sh!t Sherlock!

t4tomo

I'd ahve thought turning left was most likely RLJ - it is after all the safest one to do as you don't cross the potential path of any other traffic

W1

kelsen wrote:

wintonbina wrote:

Actually I don't think that is strictly correct. see
More details on RLJs:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf
If you aren't recognised by the so called electronic loop :? you can,if safe to do so proceed through the said Junction.....but what do I know!

That's an interesting report.

The following general conclusions can be made based on the evidence described
above:
• The majority of cyclists (84%) obey red traffic lights.
• Violation is not endemic, but 1 in 6 (16%) of cyclists do jump a red light, and at
this level may encourage more to do so in the future.
• A much greater number of men cycle during the morning and evening peaks.
When a comparison is made of the behaviour of male and female cyclists it
can be concluded that men are slightly more likely to violate red lights (17%
compared to 13%).
• In general cyclists who ride through red lights are more likely to do so whilst
travelling straight ahead at a junction. They are least likely to do so when
turning right.
• Red light violations are most common by cyclists travelling towards central
London in the morning, and away from central London in the evening.

Survey is from 2007. I know it's only a sample taken under specific conditions, but it'd be interesting to see if that 16% has changed significantly.

• In general cyclists who ride through red lights are more likely to do so whilst
travelling straight ahead at a junction. They are least likely to do so when
turning right.

No sh!t Sherlock!

My personal view, based on no more than anecdotal evidence, is that it's around 25%.

Specialized Needs

wintonbina wrote:

Actually I don't think that is strictly correct. see
More details on RLJs:
http://www.tfl.gov.uk/assets/downloads/businessandpartners/traffic-note-8-cycling-red-lights.pdf
If you aren't recognised by the so called electronic loop :? you can,if safe to do so proceed through the said Junction.....but what do I know!

Interesting to know. I can't pin that down in the linked report, however, despite skimming through it a couple of time. Can you give me the paragraph and/or page in the report where it says this, to save me going mad?

Kieran_Burns

• A much greater number of men cycle during the morning and evening peaks.
When a comparison is made of the behaviour of male and female cyclists it
can be concluded that men are slightly more likely to violate red lights (17%
compared to 13%).

Are they getting the type of Red Light confused here or something? :shock: