Strange steering problem

EKE_38BPM

I've built a fixie from a nearly 30 year old Raleigh Record Ace frame and its great. Just the right size, perfect gearing for me and the rides I do on it, comfortable, light enough to be speedy but not so light that it feels fragile.
In short, I love this bike.

However, I can only just about ride no hands on it. As soon as I take my hands off the bars, it pulls to the left and I have to make a constant effort to steer (lean) to the right to keep going straight. Everything on the bike looks straight (unlike my previous fixie frame which had a kink in the seat stay).

Any ideas why?

rjsterry

Notched headset race?

Some sort of imbalance in the front wheel? Have you tried another wheel in the forks?

il_principe

EKE_38BPM wrote:

it pulls to the left

Has it been reading the Guardian?

Sorry.

FoldingJoe

It's a well known fact that in 80% of people, with unequal size feet, the left foot is larger than the right, therefore more mass on the left means the bike veers to the left!!!

walkingbootweather

Which side do you dress?

mudcow007

i find it harder to ride no hands with narrower handlebars?

easy peasy on mountain bike, harder on my road bike

i think the larger wheels on a road bike make it harder too

EKE_38BPM

I dress to the left. Maybe the extra mass is throwing me off line?

The size of the handlebars shouldn't make a difference when riding no hands because your hands aren't on the handlebars! Its much more likely that the different geometry between MTBs and proper bikes affects the handling.

I think I'm right in saying that MTBs are more 'twitchy' than proper bikes which are set up for high speed stability so should be easier to ride no hands. MTBs are designed to be thrown around and to change direction quickly. Riding no hands on a BMX is even harder for these reasons.
In other words, Mudcow, I'm saying that you're wrong.

bails87

Noooo, an MTB with a head angle of ~68 degrees will be much more stable than a road bike with a HA of, what, 73 degrees?

MTBs are constantly having the front wheel smashed off line by rocks, roots etc, so the slack head angle helps keep the wheel straight.

rick_chasey

EKE_38BPM wrote:

I dress to the left. Maybe the extra mass is throwing me off line?

The size of the handlebars shouldn't make a difference when riding no hands because your hands aren't on the handlebars! Its much more likely that the different geometry between MTBs and proper bikes affects the handling.

I think I'm right in saying that MTBs are more 'twitchy' than proper bikes which are set up for high speed stability so should be easier to ride no hands. MTBs are designed to be thrown around and to change direction quickly. Riding no hands on a BMX is even harder for these reasons.
In other words, Mudcow, I'm saying that you're wrong.

Totally not going to be the case, but I remember when my left ear got totally blocked with ear-wax (I was waiting for it to be syringed), whenever I went no-handed it would pull to the left.

Stopped after they got the lump of wax out.

kelsen

It begs the question, why are you riding no-handed in the first place? Is it to pull up your hipsters?

meanredspider

Castor angle often determines straight-ahead stability (how much the wheel centre "trails" the steering centre)

EKE_38BPM

Riding no hands on other bikes has never been a problem on other bikes. The easiest bike to RNH was Moonio's 'Harry' Mixte that I built. That was as stable as a place where horses live.

If it was just hard to RNH on the fixie generally, I'd accept that the bike was just hard to RNH, but it is a constant pull to the left which makes me think its a specific problem.

BTW, I only RNH to do things like zip up my jersey or jacket. I DON'T wear hipsters and I'm not a hipster. I couldn't grow a moustache, ironic or otherwise, to save my life!

veronese68

Various possibilities.
Slight bend in the frame, your left testicle hangs lower than the right, headset holding slightly off centre.
Quickest and easiest fix would be to hold on.

EKE_38BPM

Veronese68 wrote:

Various possibilities.
Slight bend in the frame, your left testicle hangs lower than the right, headset holding slightly off centre.
Quickest and easiest fix would be to hold on.

The frame looks straight. I'd need a jig or something to be 100% sure.
My nuts are huge and heavy but then it would affect me on all bikes, not just the fixie.
I'll check the headset.
I do hold on unless I need to zip/unzip my jersey/jacket, peel a banana or something. Or maybe just to look cool in front of girls.

veronese68

You won't look cool for the girls if your bike veers into the kerb and you knock your front teeth out. Chicks may dig scars but a toothless hick probably isn't so hot.

EKE_38BPM

LOL. Thats why I need the problem sorted!

notsoblue

Hmm, do you have any brake cables that might be putting tension on the bars?

bails87

EKE_38BPM wrote:

LOL. Thats why I need the problem sorted!

Just regrease your bearings. There'll be no more unwanted turning, I guarantee it.

veronese68

EKE_38BPM wrote:

My nuts are huge and heavy

So you need to spill some then.

Twostage

Check that the rear wheel is lined up correctly vertically and horizontally.

supersonic

Could be some weird fork offset, but my guess is a slack seat angle and little weight over the front axle when you ride no handed.

EKE_38BPM

Twostage wrote:

Check that the rear wheel is lined up correctly vertically and horizontally.

Hmmm...I see a weekend of checking my headset and rear wheel alignment in my future. I suspect my 52T chainring and the chainline issues it causes may be the cause of the problem. If it is the chainline, I'll have to re-space the rear hub axle as the spacers on the axle may not be sufficient. I've had a niggling doubt about it, but Twostage's comment has brought it to the front of my mind.

shouldbeinbed

Were you alright before you took the sidecar off?

rjsterry

Twostage wrote:

Check that the rear wheel is lined up correctly vertically and horizontally.

+1 You probably wouldn't notice it being out if there's no rear brake caliper.

flimflam_machine

+1 on headset, check that it turns freely so the front wheel can self-correct. Also +1 on the rear wheel, check that it's centred and that the QR/wheel nuts are well tightened up.

Could it be something specifically to do with it being a fixie? Since both feet are always effectively locked to the drivetrain, would an asymmetry in your pedalling style be more likely to throw your bike offline? Have you tried it with a freewheel?

flimflam_machine

EKE, I saw your post on the "Old skool! Raleigh pro race. Classic or heap of sh..?" thread about respacing your rear hub. You may want to try "The String Method" to see whether your rear triangle is straight before doing anything else.

EKE_38BPM

flimflam_machine wrote:

EKE, I saw your post on the "Old skool! Raleigh pro race. Classic or heap of sh..?" thread about respacing your rear hub. You may want to try "The String Method" to see whether your rear triangle is straight before doing anything else.

Cheers! Thats me this weekend.

itboffin

EKE_38BPM wrote:

flimflam_machine wrote:

EKE, I saw your post on the "Old skool! Raleigh pro race. Classic or heap of sh..?" thread about respacing your rear hub. You may want to try "The String Method" to see whether your rear triangle is straight before doing anything else.

Cheers! Thats me this weekend.

This fella has form, yes you EKE dont you remember one of my drunken fettling lectures when i pointed out the many many many faults in your previous bananananana FGSS build ...?

One of them being the clearly cack positioned rear wheel? wasnt that also an aero wheel?

kieranb

flimflam_machine wrote:

+1 on headset, check that it turns freely so the front wheel can self-correct. Also +1 on the rear wheel, check that it's centred and that the QR/wheel nuts are well tightened up.

Could it be something specifically to do with it being a fixie? Since both feet are always effectively locked to the drivetrain, would an asymmetry in your pedalling style be more likely to throw your bike offline? Have you tried it with a freewheel?

+ 1, I had my headset on my track bike tightened recently by a mechanic only to find it impossible to ride hands free, got home loosened it up a bit so it turned freely and I was back to riding no hands no problem.

rjsterry

itboffin wrote:

EKE_38BPM wrote:

flimflam_machine wrote:

EKE, I saw your post on the "Old skool! Raleigh pro race. Classic or heap of sh..?" thread about respacing your rear hub. You may want to try "The String Method" to see whether your rear triangle is straight before doing anything else.

Cheers! Thats me this weekend.

This fella has form, yes you EKE dont you remember one of my drunken fettling lectures when i pointed out the many many many faults in your previous bananananana FGSS build ...?

One of them being the clearly cack positioned rear wheel? wasnt that also an aero wheel?

Straight eye for the queer wheel?

EKE_38BPM

If you have a look in the fettling thread you can see what I've done to try to correct the problem.
I've measured the chainline and the centreline and get everything in line. Measured the wheels in relation to the stays. Swapped BB and chainset (which involved using a scaffolding pole to release my SPD-SLs from the Shimano chainset its been on for years).

Boff, that Banana was never going to be right because of the bend in the seat stay. I just built to see if I like riding fixed, and I do.