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London World Cup *spoiler*

ProssPross Posts: 34,832
edited February 2012 in Track
Nice to see things starting well. Well done to the girls in the team sprint and team pursuit. Also nice to see the Canadian girls do well under the guidance of my old club mate. Went to watch them training in Newport last week, the Welsh air obviously did some good :)

Posts

  • Great viewing, good to see the velodrome and WRs abound !
    All the gear, but no idea...
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    Come on Mears!
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    What a ride by Hoy. Completely different to his usual tactics so will keep them guessing and Worlds and Olympics.
  • bompingtonbompington Posts: 7,674
    Pross wrote:
    What a ride by Hoy. Completely different to his usual tactics so will keep them guessing and Worlds and Olympics.

    Just saw a slow mo on my phone, not great quality so correct me if I'm wrong but that looked to me like they were all going flat out for the line at top speed, then he suddenly accelerated by about 20% in the last few metres? How can he actually do that? :shock:
  • islwynislwyn Posts: 650
    bompington wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    What a ride by Hoy. Completely different to his usual tactics so will keep them guessing and Worlds and Olympics.

    Just saw a slow mo on my phone, not great quality so correct me if I'm wrong but that looked to me like they were all going flat out for the line at top speed, then he suddenly accelerated by about 20% in the last few metres? How can he actually do that? :shock:

    Pretty much there yeah, he just let them break away and then boom, he wins... He's a machine.
  • islwynislwyn Posts: 650
    Another win! J Roswell individual pursuit... Bloody hell.... Amazing ride.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    Time to re-consider if Pendleton is our best option in the women's sprint events? I'm sure it will turn out to be perfect tapering for the big one but can't help feeling she is living off past glories. Need to ditch the omnium and get the IP back into the Olympics in 2016. They could also do the points race as it would take less time than the omnium!
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    Islwyn wrote:
    Another win! J Roswell individual pursuit... Bloody hell.... Amazing ride.
    Thought she'd gone out too hard but beautifully paced. It really is a proper event, it's like athletics being forced to ditch the 1500m.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    What a ride by Laura Trott. I love the elimination event, it really needs to be made a World Champs in its own right.
  • Dave_P1Dave_P1 Posts: 565
    I really thought Laura was going to go out much earlier in the elimination event but she done an excellent controled job.
  • islwynislwyn Posts: 650
    Laura Trott was SHOCKING, I kept thinking she was going out and then boom, on came the sprint and she got safe... No wonder she was sick straight after winning. Bless her.
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Pross wrote:
    Nice to see things starting well. Well done to the girls in the team sprint and team pursuit. Also nice to see the Canadian girls do well under the guidance of my old club mate. Went to watch them training in Newport last week, the Welsh air obviously did some good :)
    You rode with John Evans? He rode for acme ? then for wyevern. He is coaching Zach Bell and Tara Whitton and Canadians? Or do you mean John Wools? I think he is assisting?
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Islwyn wrote:
    Laura Trott was SHOCKING, I kept thinking she was going out and then boom, on came the sprint and she got safe... No wonder she was sick straight after winning. Bless her.
    Why shocking? She was tired from pursuit and got boxed in a few times then had to use her sprint which she did.
    Then with 6 riders left it is better to be on the back, Tara Whitten was shocking, she did last 12 laps on the fron and then wonered how Trott passed her. Fantastic ride by Trott, not as planned but she showed gutts when needed.
    My claim to fame is I beat her in a match sprint in Welwyn couple of years ago lol would struggle now though :(
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Pross wrote:
    Time to re-consider if Pendleton is our best option in the women's sprint events? I'm sure it will turn out to be perfect tapering for the big one but can't help feeling she is living off past glories. Need to ditch the omnium and get the IP back into the Olympics in 2016. They could also do the points race as it would take less time than the omnium!
    Pross you usually write sensible posts but this one is off the mark by a mile :D Who would rerplace her?
    She qualified in 11.1 which is good as she ever does, against mears they did three of the fastest ever recorded times in a 3 match sprint.
    Both Mears and Vicky said they suffered due to their race being so fast.
    No one in uk anywhere near her class yet unfortunately and another couple of years before Jess and Becky or even Ellie will get there, though they are all class already.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    Pross wrote:
    Nice to see things starting well. Well done to the girls in the team sprint and team pursuit. Also nice to see the Canadian girls do well under the guidance of my old club mate. Went to watch them training in Newport last week, the Welsh air obviously did some good :)
    You rode with John Evans? He rode for acme ? then for wyevern. He is coaching Zach Bell and Tara Whitton and Canadians? Or do you mean John Wools? I think he is assisting?

    Richie Wooles is the women's track coach (he was also sorting Bell out in the omnium kilo on TV last night). Jonny Ev was with them at Newport. Think he's soigneur to the Canadian sprinters based in LA. Strong Welsh input to the Canadian success.
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    Pross wrote:
    Time to re-consider if Pendleton is our best option in the women's sprint events? I'm sure it will turn out to be perfect tapering for the big one but can't help feeling she is living off past glories. Need to ditch the omnium and get the IP back into the Olympics in 2016. They could also do the points race as it would take less time than the omnium!
    Pross you usually write sensible posts but this one is off the mark by a mile :D Who would rerplace her?
    She qualified in 11.1 which is good as she ever does, against mears they did three of the fastest ever recorded times in a 3 match sprint.
    Both Mears and Vicky said they suffered due to their race being so fast.
    No one in uk anywhere near her class yet unfortunately and another couple of years before Jess and Becky or even Ellie will get there, though they are all class already.

    Problem is that she isn't winning match sprints and it doesn't matter how fast you are riding if you don't beat your opponent.I'm sure it is all under control but it sometimes feels like she is taking too much interest in the celebrity lifestyle. The big problem for me is that BC aren't giving younger riders a chance at international competitions. Surely they could put them in non-Olympic events to get them used to the level? Sprinters could do the kilo / 500m and endurance riders could enter the points or scratch races. It seems a shame that we aren't represwnted in events that have world yitles at stake.
  • I like the omnium. Why can't uci and Olympic organisation allow room for that an IP?
  • rick_chaseyrick_chasey Posts: 65,382 Lives Here
    Quick question trackies.

    Was trackside on Sunday - couldn't help but notice that I could hear the chains from about 60% of the riders.

    Surely they should be silent for max-efficiency?
  • Daz555Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Quick question trackies.

    Was trackside on Sunday - couldn't help but notice that I could hear the chains from about 60% of the riders.

    Surely they should be silent for max-efficiency?
    Silence would involve more lube sitting between the chain and sprockets than is required - if it is silent simply because of loob then the energy normally wasted making noise is instead being used to move and heat the lube instead. They do not care about longevity of components, only efficiency. I'm sure they've analysed this stuff down to the finest detail.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Daz555Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    It will be interesting to see how the mens team sprint pans out. Edgar is about .5 secs down on the best man one guys out there. Can he improve enough to give Kenny & Hoy a chance?
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • oldwelshmanoldwelshman Posts: 4,733
    Pross wrote:
    Pross wrote:
    Time to re-consider if Pendleton is our best option in the women's sprint events? I'm sure it will turn out to be perfect tapering for the big one but can't help feeling she is living off past glories. Need to ditch the omnium and get the IP back into the Olympics in 2016. They could also do the points race as it would take less time than the omnium!
    Pross you usually write sensible posts but this one is off the mark by a mile :D Who would rerplace her?
    She qualified in 11.1 which is good as she ever does, against mears they did three of the fastest ever recorded times in a 3 match sprint.
    Both Mears and Vicky said they suffered due to their race being so fast.
    No one in uk anywhere near her class yet unfortunately and another couple of years before Jess and Becky or even Ellie will get there, though they are all class already.

    Problem is that she isn't winning match sprints and it doesn't matter how fast you are riding if you don't beat your opponent.I'm sure it is all under control but it sometimes feels like she is taking too much interest in the celebrity lifestyle. The big problem for me is that BC aren't giving younger riders a chance at international competitions. Surely they could put them in non-Olympic events to get them used to the level? Sprinters could do the kilo / 500m and endurance riders could enter the points or scratch races. It seems a shame that we aren't represwnted in events that have world yitles at stake.
    Loosing 2-1 to the current world champis hardly a disgrace.
    BC do give others chances to ride, speak to Becky and Luis and other sprinters, the ride otehr evens, but as yet no one comes even close to beating Vicky, unlike the men where we have Jason Keny, David Danial, Ross Edgar, all world class and severl youngsters coming behind.
    BC focus only on the olympic events really, which makes sense.
    There is not much point sprinters enterring the kilo, it is a different event, the training for a kilo is very specific and differs from sprinting. If you look at Jess Varnish she has improved immensely over one lap start and the womens sprint broke the world record, but then struggles in the Kerin. It is very hard to be good at sprint, Kilo and keirin, Hoy managed it buit hes a freak, in the nicest sense.
    I think saying she takes too much of an interest in celebrity lifestyle is a bit over the top, you hardly see her falling out of clubs, she may do publicity work, but thats all part of the role she plays and I am sure she willmake a good ambassador for cycling after she retires as she is very marketable.
    Come the olypmpics it looks as if it will be out of about 6 women for gold and Vicky will be one of the favourites for sure.
    As for it does not matter how fast your riding if you dont win, thats not true, if Mears had won in times of 12 sec like in some other heats, then it would be time for her to go, but the times were fast simply becuase she has got world class form and pushed Mears to her limit also.
    One thing I would say is I would like to see her focus more on qualifying times as she has never been the best at that, but you see what can happen if you dont qualify fastest, you can have a very hard semi and this could happen in olypmics.
    Unfortunately I dont think you will see the younger sprinters at Vicky's level for a year or two yet.
  • BeaconRuthBeaconRuth Posts: 2,086
    Pross wrote:
    Time to re-consider if Pendleton is our best option in the women's sprint events? I'm sure it will turn out to be perfect tapering for the big one but can't help feeling she is living off past glories.
    Tosh! She's just broken the World Team sprint record for goodness sake. How is that "living off past glories"?!
    The big problem for me is that BC aren't giving younger riders a chance at international competitions.
    Despite a large squad of up and coming riders being sent to Beijing for the previous world cup? Long BC report on how they are giving younger riders chances at international competition
    One thing I would say is I would like to see her focus more on qualifying times as she has never been the best at that
    She has been the best at qualifying before. I seem to recall her qualifying fastest in the World Champs in Manchester in 2008 (mainly because I was there that day) and, I could be wrong, but didn't she qualify fastest in the Beijing Olympics?

    Ruth
  • ProssPross Posts: 34,832
    OK, I guess I'm wrong (it happens regularly) and probably stems from my opinion of VP going downhill after her comments last year when she seemed to blame Shanaze Reade for their poor performance in the team sprint when it was Vicky who had false started. It would also be nice if she'd rode the Nationals so that the others could see where they were in comparison.

    On the issue of putting young riders into the non-Olympic events I know OWM knows far more about track than me but I would have thought that the 500m or kilo would be ideal for developing team sprint and kilo riders after all, isn't that where the likes of Hoy, Staff and Queally started out? I would argue that part of the problem the men are having in finding an opening lap rider could be the removal of the kilo from the Olympic programme. Good kilo riders also seem to do well in the Keirin where sprint endurance can often beat top end sprint speed. Also, in the endurance events, was Sam Harrison injured? Otherwise, why didn't he ride the omnium with Clancy being unable to take part? It seemed a strange move to bring Swift in given that Harrison already has a World Cup win to his name in that discipline whilst Swift now seems to be very much a road cyclist. Likewise, he could possibly have been a better option than Kennaugh in the team pursuit? To me we need our track squad to be concentrating on the track to give us the best chance of medals in London - Geraint looks like he is doing that by cutting down on his road programme but it seems a backward step bring in roadies to fill spots.

    As for the young female sprinters not being ready, Becky James has previously taken a bronze in World Cup keirin and won a silver at the Commonwealth Games (yes, some top riders were missing but she beat McCulloch in the semi). To me this is the big problem with the Olympic re-organisation - OK it was necessary to give women and men the same amount of races but I can't see why they cut it to one rider per country per event, it doesn't seem to be the case in any other sport as far as I can tell and it means that selection will go to the safe pair of hands whereas before you could put in an experience top flight performer and an up-and-coming youngster. Maybe they should do the same with track and field - can you imagine the USA or Jamaica being told they can only field one person in the sprint events? Or maybe swimming should have its events cut as they are all pretty much the same - get rid of different strokes and just have them swimming medlies!
  • Daz555Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Even this early on it feels like the men will be queueing up for silver against Hoy in the sprint and hoping he makes an error in the "random" keirin and gets himself boxed in. If he's feeling strong at the time of course it will make no odds because all the "practicing winning from different positions" will go out of the window and he'll hit the front with a lap and half to go.

    I really really hope he stays fit and has a chance to make even more history.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • Daz555Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    Pross wrote:
    OK it was necessary to give women and men the same amount of races but I can't see why they cut it to one rider per country per event
    Agree 100%.

    It really diminishes the event to be honest as it means it is easier to win the Olympics than some world cup rounds as there is not as much strength in depth.
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
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