Off the shelf, why is it that:

The Northern Monkey

The majority* of high end bikes have Fox forks?

I've had fox forks, and always preferred the Rockshox equivalent. I'm talking more enduro/aggressive trail bikes here, so 140-160mm travel.

I just finding it annoying.
I feel like I'd be forced to buy a bike with Fox to get the other spec I want, but I'd just end up swapping out the fork anyway (like I have done with the Canyon).

Whats happening to RS?

*majority meaning i've spent the last 10 mins looking at all the high end versions bike I prefer.

Torres

My guess is that it boils down to image. I'm with you Ben, I'd have a rockshox any day of the week; however I think there's still that image that comes with owning/riding Fox that people percieve them to be better/cooler/more desirable.

ilovedirt

What Torres said, to a lot of people, a Fox fork is a Fox fork. Though like you Ben, I'd rather have a high end Rockshox fork than a low end Fox fork.

getonyourbike

I think I'd rather have a set of Marzocchis (now they're back on their game) or BOS over Fox or Rockshox now. The service intervals of the 2 major brands are stupid and Zocchi and BOS are matching and beating them in performance now.

lawman

It's all down to marketing, manufacturers spend a whole load of money doing research on what people want, and obviously the majority want fox on high end bikes. I certainly would, as I've said before my experience with fox is better than rockshox, but its each to their own as always, but clearly the majority of manufacturers have found people want fox forks and shocks.

One thing that peeves me off, particularly the yankees, is that they always moan that fox shocks don't suit them, so they get a custom tuned "x-brand" shock and sing the praises, usually the monarch... of course a shock custom tuned to you is going to perform better than an off the shelf shock designed for joe bloggs you over weight arse bandits!! typical yanks I suppose, they do get on my nerves!

Stevo_666

When it comes to the aggro/enduro 36mm stanchions/160mm travel end of things, I never hear much about the RS Lyriks - not sure if they're not as good as the equivalent Fox 36's or just been not marketed hard enough or just ignored ? It seems like Fox have the Lions share of that market for sure.

Or maybe Fox are just smarter at getting manufacturers to fit their forks as OE?

The Northern Monkey

Possibly.. frinstance, do a search for the RS Lyrik rc2l. Good fork, but I can't find 1 bike with it as standard!

I mean, its not the biggest issue... I sold my Fox for £400 an bought my RS for £300. Fork is much better and I'm £100 better off.

But, I'd rather the better RS fork as standard (my opinion of course!), which is generally cheaper than the Fox equivalent, and a few quid spent elsewhere on the rest of the components!

delcol

thats why i tend to go for frame only then spec it to what i want.. highend components my fork of choice would be bos,, by far the best fork i ever rode.. then it would be between fox or rockshox i got 2 pairs of fox on my bikes now and had rockshox on the demo and liked them..
the only one i waould not fancy trusting is marzocchi after shelling out $1200 for those annoying crap 08 55atas.
but people seem to rate the zocchis again now,,,i just dont know if i would go there again..

then there the xfusion they sem to be the new kid on the block and score some very impressive reviews..
i a'm tempted to try the xfusion next....

Stevo_666

Reckon next time that I am shelling out for a 160mm fork I might give the BOS Deville a go.

getonyourbike

Stevo 666 wrote:

Reckon next time that I am shelling out for a 160mm fork I might give the BOS Deville a go.

That's exactly where my money would be going and if I had the money I'd get a Vip'r shock too.

Andy B

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Possibly.. frinstance, do a search for the RS Lyrik rc2l. Good fork, but I can't find 1 bike with it as standard!

Cube Fritzz Pro has a Rock Shox Lyrik RC Air 2-P fork as std.

lawman

I'd go either fox, bos or at a push marzocchi, the last pair of 55's i tried were awful. Rockshox might be good value, but is the performance any better? Northern monkey, I can see why you changed your 36's for domains, but in an honesty I can't see many people doing that in a similar situation, they'd get the fox tuned so it worked how they wanted, rather than buy a heavier, "downgraded" fork, it's how most peoples mind work. People seem to like to stick with what they know, which is not always the best thing, but if you find something you like, by all means go with it, but people seem to forget is what works for them wont work for others. The Bos stuff does look good, but I would worry about spares and the like, most LBS' have fox and rockshox spares in stock, i bet not many carry Bos spares...

Northwind

It's purely brand perception IMO, people would rather buy a lower spec Fox than a better Rockshox in most cases. I think the very best of both brands are fairly equal- maybe Fox just edge it- but at any pricepoint below that Rockshox generally work out better. But they're not as good when you're playing speclist bingo. It's no different to sticking on an XT rear mech on a deore groupset, form over function.

delcol

spare should'nt be a problem for bos..
r53 were awesome and sorted out the issues with our kids devilles within days..

supersonic

It is brand perception. Fox targeted the high end market when they started, and they got the image of being the best, despite RS consistently producing lighter, stiffer, longer lasting, more adjustable, and better performing forks for the money. Marzocchi used to have this image, then RS, then Fox, but at the minute it is getting closer, purely image wise.

The new 36 160 though I like, in RLC form as this is a very good fork. But every where else RS pisses on Fox.

ilovedirt

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Possibly.. frinstance, do a search for the RS Lyrik rc2l. Good fork, but I can't find 1 bike with it as standard!

I mean, its not the biggest issue... I sold my Fox for £400 an bought my RS for £300. Fork is much better and I'm £100 better off.

But, I'd rather the better RS fork as standard (my opinion of course!), which is generally cheaper than the Fox equivalent, and a few quid spent elsewhere on the rest of the components!

There's a few bikes (the spesh enduro) with the lyrik R specced as standard, however I don't see the point. The fork is so bad, I think that if you can only afford to spec something like that within a certain price bracket, you shouldn't be producing a bike in that price bracket at all.
However, I have the lyrik RC2DH which is a great fork, you don't see enough of them about. It's a bit silly though, as they're the same price as a fox float R or something, which as you discovered, is a rubbish fork... More manufacturers need to spec Rockshox over Fox in the lower price brackets.

ricardo_smooth

supersonic wrote:

The new 36 160 though I like, in RLC form as this is a very good fork. But every where else RS pisses on Fox.

Reassuring as lots of people are coming out of the woodwork saying the RC2 cartridge was better... I've not had an rc2 cartridge to compare, but now i'm learning how to adjust the fork properly i'm happy with my 36's. To me service intervals don't put me off, as it's only a case of taking the lowers off for the 30 hour service(mojo must think its easy as they encourage you to do it yourself with an online video on their website!). The annual one would go to mojo anyway.

supersonic

Both are good, in fact RS and Fox really start performing when you get the compression adjustments. Fox have made a remarkably stiff and light fork in the 36 160 - but to do it justice, the R and RL versions are not worth it. This goes for RS too, the Lyrik R is not the best.

For the 100-150mm market, RS have it sewn up, Revs and Rebas can be got so cheap, and even SIDs are bargains in places. As standard all have the Moco damper.

blablablacksheep

Like sonic said Fox used to and maybe still does have a very strong brand for quality, but was only really for those who could afford it.

But now with sites like Canyon and co, and Fox moving more into mainstream markets they letting people into their "quality brand" ideas.

Its very much Fox giving up a little bit of their quality to produce more stuff for lower markets but results in higher sales.
Very much the thing a lot of high end "quality" brands are doing atm.

Lapierre t 400

Fox are seen on high end bikes because people associate them with quality,reliability,plushness.

If you buy them aftermarket,you will now pay stupid prices for them and they according to Fox need servicing every 30 hrs to keep them perfect.

I had a set of 07 RS rebas that got serviced once in 2011 because I thought they might need it but otherwise they must have lasted about 2000 hrs of riding and abuse

rockmonkeysc

I have wondered this. My Reign X2 came with a Lyrik R but the £700 more expensive Reign X2 comes with a Fox Float R. I actually went for the cheaper bike because I would much rather have the basic Lyrik than the basic Float.
I suspect that Fox probably give better discounts to manufacturers than Rockshox.

ricardo_smooth

Lapierre t 400 wrote:

Fox need servicing every 30 hrs to keep them perfect.

Whilst I agree that this is pretty daunting for first time buyers, it's only a quick taking off of the lowers and a foam ring re-soak (which mojo provide visual and written instructions for people to do at home on their website). It's hardly rocket science, albeit inconvenient. Your argument about owning a set of rebas that havn't had a service in a large amount of time isn't really an argument as the amount of time quoted is also past what RS reccomend to keep them perfect. A friend of mine has a set of fox 32's that have never seen a service since they were new either and it hasn't harmed them.

Hob Nob

Down to OE markets, and buying power.

A lot of Fox OE forks are open bath damper (no FiT), no blingy stanchions, so fairly basic, and thus are cheap to buy in vast quantities. The result is though the feel very different to the higher end forks.

To be fair SRAM are just the same, they had a number of OE spec Pike's with crude dampers & steel steerers.

I would imagine it purely comes down to cost. Fox at that moment were probably offering a better deal.

Anonymous

Mostly just business practices. Deals done with particular distributors and brands. They cut them a special deal if they kit them out with their stuff. They probably get a better margin on the Fox stuff.

The Northern Monkey wrote:

Possibly.. frinstance, do a search for the RS Lyrik rc2l. Good fork, but I can't find 1 bike with it as standard!

Not the RC2L, but the Nomad comes with the R as standard. Next up RC2DH. Fox after that, but is that better quality or just more expensive?

How long SC default to Rockshox stuff, don't know given the Syndicate team switching from SRAM as maybe they'll get less deals out of them.

Still, they provide the options anyway as always so you can get what you want really. And at the expensive end you can usually just buy the frame and spec up the rest yourself, either building yourself or ask the shop what you want and they'll do it.

Myself - I'm a SRAM Whore so I stick with their stuff. No real reason other than it's just the stuff I've always had really.

supersonic

Up until 2010, all Fox forks were open bath except the RLC which was a cartridge. FIT was introduced as a lightweight cartridge (and it is, only has 50ml of oil in it!), and can be found as RL and RLC on Factory models, and one performance. Basically the Evo series are the older Floats. While not as bad as RS, the lineup is a little confusing with seemingly some forks missing!

Kashima is interesting, as was brought in to combat the stiction that the FIT damper was getting - small bump response did suffer. Kashima seems to have improved thingsm but the stanchions of RS forks have PTFE impregnated into the anodosing, and I think the DLC will be introduced soon.

I don't see the Fox Evo line as a budget Fox, more of a line that has been kept on, though seem OE only. Maybe they have been built down a bit, are a little heavier.

ADL

Manitou anyone?

bennett_346

ADL wrote:

Manitou anyone?

No, no and never.

supersonic

Why? You tried the latest forks? Or any of them for that matter?!

They did go througha bad patch with certain models, but have made some very good forkjs and continue to do so.

bennett_346

supersonic wrote:

Why? You tried the latest forks? Or any of them for that matter?!

They did go througha bad patch with certain models, but have made some very good forkjs and continue to do so.

I've rode several, and didn't like them. Kinda put off after that, and as most of how well components perform is down to how much you trust them, i wouldn't be buying them.

They made some alright short travel forks back in the day like the sixe but i'm still not a fan.

jaymodunn

ADL wrote:

Manitou anyone?

My mate has this on a khs alite and being air sprung perform pretty well but the problem being he could never keep up with my cube, and that had a suntour piece of junk, but it is the rider.

The Rookie

We have 2 pre 2007 Manitous, both bought used, both given a decent service, both have impressed riders used to Fox/RS forks that cost them 6 times what our used Manitou's cost, and on my short travel HT the SPV feature is ace, and sub 1500g weight isn't to be sniffed at either!

Simon