freeview HD

jim453
jim453 Posts: 1,360
edited February 2012 in The bottom bracket
More advice please,

I have an HD ready tv with built in freeview reciever. To be honest, until now, I've assumed my picture was HD but having visited a friend recently I'm now certain that it is not.

I looked on the net for a while and think I've concluded that I should be getting some HD channels but am not. Apparently these channels should be no.s 50 to 55 on freeview but when I go through my channels they go from 49 to 60, completely missing out the numbers where the wonderful high definition tv lives.

Am I doing something wrong? Am I wrong to think I should be able to get some HD channels?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Thank you.
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Comments

  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    HD on Freeview is not free, you have to pay a subscription for it.

    I have a Free Sat box which does come with the HD channels FOC, but there is so little - if any - difference between that and normal picture I would never pay extra for it.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    With the right setup you should be at least getting one 'free' HD channel. http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbchd/what_is_hd.shtml
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    edited February 2012
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    HD on Freeview is not free, you have to pay a subscription for it.

    I have a Free Sat box which does come with the HD channels FOC, but there is so little - if any - difference between that and normal picture I would never pay extra for it.
    Disregard that completely. Freeview HD is on channels 50 - 54; it's completely free and not part of the add-on pay-tv part of Freeview. It's free.

    You don't say where you are so without knowing what transmitter or relay you're tuned to it's not possible to say, but the general rule is that if analogue tv hasn't yet been switched off you probably won't get Freeview HD.

    Also the HD on Freeview is a little better than HD on Freesat. I can't say how Sky's HD channels compare so I won't. And - be aware that of the four HD channels, only BBC HD is exclusively HD. BBC 1 HD is mix of HD and upscaled SD, as is C4 and ITV HD. So some programmes won't have that HD look due to not being sourced in HD. Equally, a lot of producers seem to like the 'film look' that softens the picture and reduces the sharp HD look. And on top of that, if your TV isn't set to have a good contrast, good colour balance and is able to show black blacks and realistic skin tones, your HD experience won't be as good as someone watching on a set that can display colours & shades properly.

    Good HD looks great, considering the fact that it could be transmitted at much higher quality but isn't.
  • jgsi
    jgsi Posts: 5,062
    Built in Freeview HD on our Sony Bravia is there.... defintely 1080 .. :) depends if your locale has been switched over yet though.. Granada since Summer 2010 .
    BBc1 on 50.. ITV Channel 4 and BC HD is all you get though.
    However, unless I am 20 cms from the tv I cant tell any major difference with just SD from couch potato position... I am just too lazy to push a button....
  • igbarnes
    igbarnes Posts: 5
    Unless your TV has a Freeview HD capable tuner built into it, you won't be getting Freeview HD on it without the aid of an external receiver .... if the TV is less than 12 months old and probably from Panasonic or Sony then you may be in luck.

    You need to look for DVB-T2 support for Freeview HD (where standard definition Freeview works on DVB-T)
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    Have a look at When Do I Switch to see when your DSO happens, if it hasn't yet.

    If you have lost analogue TV and you aren't getting HD but think you should be, it might be your aerial, or that you just haven't retuned yet to pick up the latest channel permutations. They do change occasionally.

    Edit to +1 the above post. You said your set is HD ready, but that's not the same as having the HD functionality built-in. Try a bit of RTFM to see what it says, or Google your TV to see if it does do FV HD.
  • jim453
    jim453 Posts: 1,360
    I've done the address search on the freeview website and it claims that HD is indeed currently available. However, the channels stop at 49 and resume again at 60.

    I'm starting to wonder if the tv is actually capable of dealing with an HD signal. In fact, I'll go and check the model number and get back to you.

    The TV is a Samsung and is about two months old, it is one of the cheapest they do though.

    I'll find the model number.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    If it misses the HD channels it prob isn't HD compatible. HD Ready is a bit of misleading marketing that allows manufacturers & retailers to get away with exactly this sort of thing, and should be stopped.
  • jim453
    jim453 Posts: 1,360
    Right, the model number is le32d400e1wxxu.

    It says HD ready but no mention of HD functionality. To be honest I would think if the TV has a built in freeview receiver and it says 'HD ready' on it then it is reasonable to assume that the in built in receiver can deal with HD.

    I'm not too bothered either way to be honest but if there's something straightforward that I'm not doing then perhaps someone could let me know.
  • jim453
    jim453 Posts: 1,360
    CiB wrote:
    If it misses the HD channels it prob isn't HD compatible. HD Ready is a bit of misleading marketing that allows manufacturers & retailers to get away with exactly this sort of thing, and should be stopped.

    Thank you.

    I don't think it's a goer.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    A quick Google of that model number isn't promising. Sets that have built-in HD usually shout it from the rooftops in the blurb; this has no mention, just the meaningless HD Ready moniker. You could take it back and point out that you thought you were getting an HD tuner, and see if the seller will upgrade. HD is good, it is better than SD and worth having.
  • jim453
    jim453 Posts: 1,360
    It's a cheap tv so I've no reason to complain. It does seem a little ridiculous though that it says 'HD ready' all over the place and the receiver is inside the tv and is not 'HD ready'

    Never mind.

    Teach me to buy a cheap telly.

    Thank you for your help.
  • petejuk
    petejuk Posts: 235
    I have a similar Samsung. It too is full HD ready and currently operates from the built in freeview receiver which, sadly is not HD. I'm not that fussed though as I got the TV on a cracking deal from Argos where it was marked up incorrectly. The manager agreed to sell it to me at the price displayed and, when I got to the till, found it came with a free DVD player.... Result.
  • lemoncurd
    lemoncurd Posts: 1,428
    You need http://www.youview.com

    It's a freer version of Freeview.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    CiB wrote:
    If it misses the HD channels it prob isn't HD compatible. HD Ready is a bit of misleading marketing that allows manufacturers & retailers to get away with exactly this sort of thing, and should be stopped.
    So true and so many people get caught out with it.
    Unless your TV is 1080P you won't be seeing any HD source in true HD.
    And if it doesn't have a built in HD tuner - no joy again.

    No wonder so many people wonder what the fuss is about HD. It's because they aren't getting proper HD.
    Should have been stopped.
    Chances are most new (2012 model) TVs are fully compatible though.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • alan_sherman
    alan_sherman Posts: 1,157
    My parents were buying a TV over Christmas and wanted the hd channels. I had to step in and stop them buying a hd ready set, you need a TV with the freeview hd logo. Sadly a lot of staff in electrical stores seem ignorant of this difference between "hd ready" and "free view hd". Even the John Lewis technical line didn't know.

    A lot of reduced Tvs are only hd ready at the moment as stores clear out this old stock.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    PS: This applies to Sky HD too.
    If you don't have a 1080P TV you are wasting money on Sky HD.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    If you have an 'HD Ready' tv then what do you actually get if you plug in a freeview HD box or Sky HD box? We have a full HD tv with Sky HD and the girlfriend's parents have an 'HD Ready' tv with Sky HD and I can't tell any difference in the picture quality.
    More problems but still living....
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    amaferanga wrote:
    If you have an 'HD Ready' tv then what do you actually get if you plug in a freeview HD box or Sky HD box? We have a full HD tv with Sky HD and the girlfriend's parents have an 'HD Ready' tv with Sky HD and I can't tell any difference in the picture quality.
    HD Ready means that the screen is defined as HD and can display full HD pictures from an HD source - Blu-Ray player, Sky HD box etc. It's an HD display, but doesn't mean that the tuner can decode the HD channels. The ambiguity arises when people like our friend the OP, Mr Sherman's parents and presumably countless others are suckered into buying HD Ready in the mistaken belief that it's ready to decode Freeview HD when the HD broadcasts are switched on.

    It's not quite a con - it was a solution to the problem a couple or three years ago when people wanted to buy HD sets but the FV HD standard hadn't been finalised and FV HD wasn't yet available. Now that most of the country has gone through DSO and as a bare minimum an HD Ready set should include the HD decoding equipment, there's really no excuse for retailers to be knocking them out without making it abundantly clear to the punters that HD Ready doesn't automatically mean it'll get FV HD.
    lemoncurd wrote:
    You need http://www.youview.com

    It's a freer version of Freeview.
    Except that you need a Broadband deal and by watching TV this way it's easy to overstep the Fair Usage Policy or any actual limits that your ISP may impose, thus exposing you to further costs. Freeview really is free. Buy the gear and that's it. No more costs until you decide to buy something else.
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    So if you have Sky HD or a separate freeview HD box then you get proper HD even on an 'HD Ready' tv. That's not entirely clear from the complaints above....
    More problems but still living....
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    Yes, that's right. OP was asking why he doesn't receive the channels - answer being because his set doesn't decode them so doesn't include them in the EPG.

    Others have stepped in to claim that HD is no different from SD - well it is, but not enough people are aware that three of the four FV HD channels carry a mix of programmes some of which are made in HD using HD cameras & HD edit suites, some are SD but are upscaled to HD to look better but aren't proper HD so won't look as good, and some are HD but have been made in such a way as to have a softer look that takes away the obvious differences between HD & SD. To claim that HD is no better than SD though is just wrong.
  • jim453
    jim453 Posts: 1,360
    Thank you all for the continued help.

    I don't feel ripped off because when I bought the tv my only pre requisite was that it was not expensive. I gave no consideration to picture quality at all really. As it happens, the picture quality is breathtaking in comparison to the fifty kilo leviathan that it replaced, plus I don't need to strike it several times on the top to get the picture to display at all.

    HD tv is a different beast altogether though. I could not believe the difference last week when I experienced it properly for the first time, which is what stimulated my interest.

    If you can't tell the difference you are not receiving HD and need to check your set up.
  • verylonglegs
    verylonglegs Posts: 4,023
    CiB wrote:
    Except that you need a Broadband deal and by watching TV this way it's easy to overstep the Fair Usage Policy or any actual limits that your ISP may impose, thus exposing you to further costs. Freeview really is free. Buy the gear and that's it. No more costs until you decide to buy something else.

    There is no such thing as free tv, you need to pay for an annual license. Makes me a pedantic little swine I know but it's a bugbear of mine.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    amaferanga wrote:
    So if you have Sky HD or a separate freeview HD box then you get proper HD even on an 'HD Ready' tv. That's not entirely clear from the complaints above....
    The OP cannot get HD channels because he does not have an HD tuner.
    An HD Ready TV will display at 720P but can show 1080P pictures interpolated down to 720P.
    A full HD TV displays pictures at their full 1080P.
    Ergo a full HD TV at 1080P has 50% better picture quality than an HD Ready TV at 720P (all other things being equal).
    If you can't see the difference it is either because the screen is too small (@ 32" or less) to notice or the TVs specs and/or settings are different. On that note, if your TV is 32" or less there is little point in getting HD.
    Edit:- All at normal viewing distances of course.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    verylonglegs wrote:
    There is no such thing as free tv, you need to pay for an annual license. Makes me a pedantic little swine I know but it's a bugbear of mine.
    Well if you want pedantry on stilts, it's a licence, not a license. :)

    Davisee - is that right then? HD Ready TV's are all 720p and not Full HD? My understanding was that HD Ready means the display is HD bu there's no HD source built-in. Your reply suggests that HD Ready is never full HD. I didn't know that (assuming it's right).
  • amaferanga
    amaferanga Posts: 6,789
    daviesee wrote:
    amaferanga wrote:
    So if you have Sky HD or a separate freeview HD box then you get proper HD even on an 'HD Ready' tv. That's not entirely clear from the complaints above....
    The OP cannot get HD channels because he does not have an HD tuner.
    An HD Ready TV will display at 720P but can show 1080P pictures interpolated down to 720P.
    A full HD TV displays pictures at their full 1080P.
    Ergo a full HD TV at 1080P has 50% better picture quality than an HD Ready TV at 720P (all other things being equal).
    If you can't see the difference it is either because the screen is too small (@ 32" or less) to notice or the TVs specs and/or settings are different. On that note, if your TV is 32" or less there is little point in getting HD.
    Edit:- All at normal viewing distances of course.

    So you're saying that an HD Ready tv with Sky HD won't have the same quality of picture as a full HD tv? Both tv's are 42".
    More problems but still living....
  • CiB
    CiB Posts: 6,098
    Sony's website states that HD Ready means 720p, full HD is 1080p. Both are better than SD, 1080 is better than 720 so for Sony TV's at least HD Ready won't be quite as good as Full HD.Sony HD explained.

    The BBC state this: What does the 'HD Ready' logo on a television mean?

    Televisions can carry the 'HD Ready' logo when the display screen has enough pixels to be able to display a high definition picture properly. To qualify they must also be capable of displaying pictures with either 720 or 1080 horizontal lines. The logo also means they can be connected to an HD digital box through an HDMI (High Definition Media Interface) cable.

    Googling around it seems that HD Ready means 'at least 720p', full HD is 1080. I'd check your own TV's spec to see what it tells you.
  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    amaferanga wrote:
    So you're saying that an HD Ready tv with Sky HD won't have the same quality of picture as a full HD tv? Both tv's are 42".
    Correct!
    See CiB's comments above.
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • Velonutter
    Velonutter Posts: 2,437
    Smokin Joe wrote:
    HD on Freeview is not free, you have to pay a subscription for it.

    I have a Free Sat box which does come with the HD channels FOC, but there is so little - if any - difference between that and normal picture I would never pay extra for it.

    Sorry Joe, I've got HD Freeview on two of our new sets and it's free, but with Sky they want £10 extra a month which they can stuff!

    BTW It is absolutely blinding on HD :-)
  • RDW
    RDW Posts: 1,900
    CiB wrote:
    lemoncurd wrote:
    You need http://www.youview.com

    It's a freer version of Freeview.
    Except that you need a Broadband deal and by watching TV this way it's easy to overstep the Fair Usage Policy or any actual limits that your ISP may impose, thus exposing you to further costs. Freeview really is free. Buy the gear and that's it. No more costs until you decide to buy something else.

    YouView will only use broadband for on-demand stuff (like iPlayer). It will use your aerial for live TV, like Freeview HD already does. Right now YouView is still vapourware, though they're claiming it will be out this year (they also said that last year).

    The 'HD Ready' stuff is pretty confusing:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD_ready

    If it says 'HD Ready' and nothing else, and it's a recent UK TV, it's probably 720p. But there's also an 'HD Ready 1080p' logo to look out for (which obviously does mean 1080p) as well as 'Full HD' (which isn't formally defined, but will generally mean 1080p), as well as 'HD TV' and 'HD TV 1080p'. If there's no mention of 'Full HD' or '1080p' somewhere prominent on the packaging, it's probably 720p (and if you do see '1080p', make sure it means the display, not just the inputs the TV can handle).

    Assuming a 1080p source, whether you get a worthwhile improvement from a 1080p compared to a 720p display depends on the screen size and viewing distance (not to mention your eyesight and screen quality!):

    http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/09/1080 ... reen-size/

    Even with 720p, you should in most circumstances see a significant improvement when watching (e.g.) Blu-Ray compared to a lower definition source like DVD.

    None of this says anything about whether your TV can decode Freeview HD. Here you have to look out for 'Freeview HD' in a single logo:

    Freeview-HD_featureLarge.jpg

    If the logo just says 'Freeview' you'll only get SD from this source, no matter how many other 'HD' logos your TV has, unless you buy an external decoder box (a 'Freeview HD' box now, or a YouView box whenever it eventually comes out).

    Incidentally, you may already be reading this on a 'Full HD' or better screen:

    hdtv.png

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