RBS Bankers arrested?

rick_chasey

http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2012 ... estigation


A big hunch that it's something to do with tax free film investments....

daviesee

I will bow down to your inside knowledge but my first assumption is insider dealing.

W1

Nothing to do with RBS, so I can only assume this is more spun Guardian banker bashing to include RBS in the headline.

rick_chasey

W1 wrote:

Nothing to do with RBS, so I can only assume this is more spun Guardian banker bashing to include RBS in the headline.

It's all over the rest of the press too.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?rlz=1C1C ... BS+arrests

rick_chasey

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... ation.html

Does this make you feel better?

sketchley

"This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

So nothing to do with the RBS then......

notsoblue

Rick Chasey wrote:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/9076563/RBS-staff-held-in-tax-fraud-investigation.html

Does this make you feel better?

I'd like W1 to respond to this. HOW COME HE NEVER RESPONDS TO QUESTIONS HE CAN'T ANSWER?!

rjsterry

They all worked at RBS. Whilst no-one is suggesting that this was official (or even unofficial) RBS business, I'd suggest that they didn't independently all embark on whatever crime they are alleged to have committed, without any reference to one another. The story could have left it at 'a major bank', but that would have invited further speculation.

sketchley

How much clearer does it need to be than this. Nothing to do with RBS.

Last night, HMRC confirmed the arrests: “As a result of an on going HMRC investigation into tax-related criminal offences, HMRC has arrested a number of people, some of whom work for UK banks. This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

daviesee

Sketchley wrote:

How much clearer does it need to be than this. Nothing to do with RBS.

Last night, HMRC confirmed the arrests: “As a result of an on going HMRC investigation into tax-related criminal offences, HMRC has arrested a number of people, some of whom work for UK banks. This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

Further to this, why did they have to add "Edinburgh based bank"?
Racists! :twisted:

rick_chasey

Sketchley wrote:

How much clearer does it need to be than this. Nothing to do with RBS.

Last night, HMRC confirmed the arrests: “As a result of an on going HMRC investigation into tax-related criminal offences, HMRC has arrested a number of people, some of whom work for UK banks. This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

Yeah it is.

They work for a financial institution, and are being arrested for financial workings they were involved with. Sure, it wasn't RBS's cash, but they still work there.

As an aside, it's RIFE in the City. About time they caught people being 'efficient' with their money.

sketchley

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

How much clearer does it need to be than this. Nothing to do with RBS.

Last night, HMRC confirmed the arrests: “As a result of an on going HMRC investigation into tax-related criminal offences, HMRC has arrested a number of people, some of whom work for UK banks. This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

Yeah it is.

They work for a financial institution, and are being arrested for financial workings they were involved with. Sure, it wasn't RBS's cash, but they still work there.

As an aside, it's RIFE in the City. About time they caught people being 'efficient' with their money.

I suspect they all play golf too, is it therefore the fault of the Royal and Ancient as well? I do agree it's important the HMRC arrest and prosecute for tax evasion, providing they get it right that is. I'm not suggesting they get off of this. But this is simply nothing to do with the RBS they all happen to work there but that is all and HMRC have confirmed that. I suspect like any employer if an employee is found to have broken the law and that action causes reputation damage to the company they will be subject to internal discipline procedures.

rjsterry

Rick Chasey wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

How much clearer does it need to be than this. Nothing to do with RBS.

Last night, HMRC confirmed the arrests: “As a result of an on going HMRC investigation into tax-related criminal offences, HMRC has arrested a number of people, some of whom work for UK banks. This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

Yeah it is.

They work for a financial institution, and are being arrested for financial workings they were involved with. Sure, it wasn't RBS's cash, but they still work there.

As an aside, it's RIFE in the City. About time they caught people being 'efficient' with their money.

Exactly, maybe they were doing this stuff in their lunch break, but it wasn't just coincidence that they all worked at the same place.

Stevo_666

There are plenty of people who evade their personal taxes, the majority very probably don't happen work in banks. Do you think this would have got the same press exposure if they had happened to work in another, lower profile industry?

Rick, you could at least put 'O/T' on your political threads, otherwise people might think that this is a left wing discussion forum for people who happen to ride a bike to work. ;-)

UndercoverElephant

daviesee wrote:

Sketchley wrote:

How much clearer does it need to be than this. Nothing to do with RBS.

Last night, HMRC confirmed the arrests: “As a result of an on going HMRC investigation into tax-related criminal offences, HMRC has arrested a number of people, some of whom work for UK banks. This investigation relates to the actions of the people arrested in relation to their own financial affairs and is not connected to the business activities of the banks.”

Further to this, why did they have to add "Edinburgh based bank"?
Racists! :twisted:

Awaits Guardian's cut out and keep Tam O'Shanter mask with "I'm a tax-avoiding numpty" written on it, for people to wear at the six nations...

notsoblue

Stevo 666 wrote:

There are plenty of people who evade their personal taxes, the majority very probably don't happen work in banks. Do you think this would have got the same press exposure if they had happened to work in another, lower profile industry?

Well, to be fair, risky behaviour for personal gain on behalf of people who worked in finance was one of the main causes of the recession, and as such people in the industry have kinda earned the reputation they have. I doubt an orthodontist with an ISA would have been as newsworthy.

dhope

notsoblue wrote:

I doubt an orthodontist with an ISA would have been as newsworthy.

I reckon the papers could get their teeth into that story.

notsoblue

dhope wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

I doubt an orthodontist with an ISA would have been as newsworthy.

I reckon the papers could get their teeth into that story.

I've been bracing myself for a big expose.

Stevo_666

notsoblue wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

There are plenty of people who evade their personal taxes, the majority very probably don't happen work in banks. Do you think this would have got the same press exposure if they had happened to work in another, lower profile industry?

Well, to be fair, risky behaviour for personal gain on behalf of people who worked in finance was one of the main causes of the recession, and as such people in the industry have kinda earned the reputation they have. I doubt an orthodontist with an ISA would have been as newsworthy.

So that's a 'No' then?

I still don't see why the perception by some of a particular industry should result in a personal tax evasion case being given a higher profile. If you can show it was those same people who caused the recession then you might have an argument?

jds_1981

Rick Chasey wrote:

They work for a financial institution, and are being arrested for financial workings they were involved with. Sure, it wasn't RBS's cash, but they still work there.

As an aside, it's RIFE in the City. About time they caught people being 'efficient' with their money.

Lots of speculation before hard facts.
Not even clear whether proper evasion, or an avoidance scheme that may have cut a bit too close to the wind & so HMRC called out the police to gather evidence.

notsoblue

Stevo 666 wrote:

notsoblue wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

There are plenty of people who evade their personal taxes, the majority very probably don't happen work in banks. Do you think this would have got the same press exposure if they had happened to work in another, lower profile industry?

Well, to be fair, risky behaviour for personal gain on behalf of people who worked in finance was one of the main causes of the recession, and as such people in the industry have kinda earned the reputation they have. I doubt an orthodontist with an ISA would have been as newsworthy.

So that's a 'No' then?

I still don't see why the perception by some of a particular industry should result in a personal tax evasion case being given a higher profile. If you can show it was those same people who caused the recession then you might have an argument?

Yeah, its weird that people can't recognise that groups are made up of individuals that may not behave according to prejudices people have for those groups.

If only the financial industry could all get together and agree to *not* be dishonest. Just like us cyclists did with RLJ.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

There are plenty of people who evade their personal taxes, the majority very probably don't happen work in banks. Do you think this would have got the same press exposure if they had happened to work in another, lower profile industry?

Rick, you could at least put 'O/T' on your political threads, otherwise people might think that this is a left wing discussion forum for people who happen to ride a bike to work. ;-)

They'd have got the same attention if they worked in a state owned institution.

Rather like the head of Student Loans Company who had his tax efficient methods scrutinised by Newsnight last month.

Stevo_666

State owned institutions are another high profile 'sector' - the connection is being made to sell more papers.

I notice you use the phrase 'tax efficient' in a tax evasion thread, which looks like an attempt to blur the lines between tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal, but lefties don't like it).

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

State owned institutions are another high profile 'sector' - the connection is being made to sell more papers.

I notice you use the phrase 'tax efficient' in a tax evasion thread, which looks like an attempt to blur the lines between tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal, but lefties don't like it).

Agreed, I am blurring the lines.

It's a fine, fine line between evasion and avoidance.

I don't know why everyone (apart from the minted obviously) isn't keen on closing tax loopholes.

rick_chasey

Let me put it this way, from my professional position, I see/hear a lot of very dodgy settups re tax.

rjsterry

Stevo 666 wrote:

State owned institutions are another high profile 'sector' - the connection is being made to sell more papers.

I notice you use the phrase 'tax efficient' in a tax evasion thread, which looks like an attempt to blur the lines between tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal, but lefties don't like it).

Well it's not on the Guardian's homepage, so they're clearly not making that much of it. Certainly a lot less than the Redknapp & Mandaric case. Think you might be being a bit over-sensitive Stevo.

rick_chasey

Stevo 666 wrote:

I notice you use the phrase 'tax efficient' in a tax evasion thread, which looks like an attempt to blur the lines between tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal, but lefties don't like it).

Out of interest, can I infer from that that presumably people on the right (i.e. you) do like people avoiding tax?

jds_1981

Rick Chasey wrote:

I don't know why everyone (apart from the minted obviously) isn't keen on closing tax loopholes.

Why do you think lots of people don't want them closed, simplified, clarified? I know from when I used to read a contractor chat channel lots of them lost sleep over ir35 and whether they were in it or not.

http://www.pcg.org.uk/cms/index.php?opt ... temid=1092

Of all the cases PCG's expert advisers have been involved in, PCG members have won 1,485 cases and HMRC has won just 8 (correct as of March 2010).

The main problem is HMRC is yet to create a simple set of tax rules that does what they actually want it to do..

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

State owned institutions are another high profile 'sector' - the connection is being made to sell more papers.

I notice you use the phrase 'tax efficient' in a tax evasion thread, which looks like an attempt to blur the lines between tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal, but lefties don't like it).

Agreed, I am blurring the lines.

It's a fine, fine line between evasion and avoidance.

I don't know why everyone (apart from the minted obviously) isn't keen on closing tax loopholes.

It's very often not a fine line, believe me I have dealt with this sort of thing in detail for some time and my work is always safely on the legal avoidance side of things, I made sure it was.

Let me just remind you of our legal and moral right not to overpay taxes as it is enshrined in UK case law (I have highlighted a few words below in case anyone want to get on their high horse about our 'moral obligation to pay lots of tax) :
"No man in this country is under the smallest obligation, moral or other, so to arrange his legal relations to his business or to his property as to enable the Inland Revenue to put the largest possible shovel into his stores."
James Avon Clyde, Lord Clyde, 1929

Did you know that? :-)

Stevo_666

Rick Chasey wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

I notice you use the phrase 'tax efficient' in a tax evasion thread, which looks like an attempt to blur the lines between tax evasion (illegal) and tax avoidance (legal, but lefties don't like it).

Out of interest, can I infer from that that presumably people on the right (i.e. you) do like people avoiding tax?

See my post above RJS - I have no problem with them doing so as they are entitled to both legally and morally according to UK case law. If people want to pay more than they have to, then that's their right as well :-)

rjsterry

I think what upsets people - lefties and righties(?) - is when an individual appears to not pay their 'fair share' of tax - i.e. a roughly equivalent proportion of their income. I also think there is a lot of ignorance about how much difference common tax avoidance measures make. Even on something as straightforward as putting your savings in an ISA as opposed to an ordinary savings account - I doubt many people could tell you off the top of their head, how much they save.