Party Wall Act

Phil_D

I live in a semi-detached bungalow. My side has a loft conversion. My neighbours have written to me to inform me that they have received permission to build an extension on the side with a loft conversion, which requires a metal ridge attached to the party wall, presumably to hold the newly-sideways-extended roof up. I have seen the plans and think it's a lovely idea, and I wish them all the best. However, I am slightly concerned that the foundations in the 1955 built bungalow may not be strong enough. These concerns are based on nothing but ignorance.

I want to give them the go ahead under the party wall act, as it appears to be just a load of red tape (and I do not want to appear to be an arse, seeing as I have already objected to the initial plans that were ultimate given the green light). However, if I do so, and the foundations are not up to the job, or they knock holes in my wall, I do not know what my rights would be or how I would rectify the damage. I have read as much of the guidance that I can find, but have not yet read the act.

Can anybody on here provide me with some advice?

Pross

They'll have to submit a Building Regs application that should ensure that the foundations are up to scratch. If you are concerned then ask for copies of their plans so that you can get an opinion from a surveyor / structural engineer. I believe that under the Party Wall Act they have to pay your reasonable fees for appointing a surveyor / solicitor etc. I can find out more from a friendly Party Wall Surveyor if you like?

Tenlegs

Before any work starts you need to appoint a surveyor to draw up a party wall award to ensure
all work carried out is done to the right standard, working hours, before and after checks etc.
If you get on well with your neighbours you could have a 'agreed' surveyor to draw up the award
or each owner can appoint their own surveyor who will draw up the award together, either way
your neighbours will have to pay all the costs.
This recently happened to me and I insisted we had separate surveyors due to a dispute we had over who
owned the party wall and was very glad I did as the party wall my neighbours wanted to demolish and rebuild
was built wholly on my side of the boundary!

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... 133214.pdf

pdstsp

Had an issue a few years ago when our neighbour wanted to do some work which impacted on our house and one of the factors to be taken into account was the impact on any mortgage you have as there is the potential for the work to impinge on the security of the mortgage holder. Agree with Pross and may even be worth taking some legal advice. We were dealing with our neighbours' cowboy builders and it became an issue which has affected our relationship with our neighbours.

Tenlegs

A Party Wall Surveyor will act on your behalf, be able to answer all your questions and it won't cost you anything.
Whatever you do, no-mater how well you get on with your neighbours, don't do it on goodwill as we nearly did,
the builders they employed turned out to be right a$$h0les.

Phil_D

Pross wrote:

They'll have to submit a Building Regs application that should ensure that the foundations are up to scratch. If you are concerned then ask for copies of their plans so that you can get an opinion from a surveyor / structural engineer. I believe that under the Party Wall Act they have to pay your reasonable fees for appointing a surveyor / solicitor etc. I can find out more from a friendly Party Wall Surveyor if you like?

I had thought and hoped that Building Control would only let the development proceed if the foundations were strong enough. I think this gives me enough comfort to know that my house isn't going to fall down as a result of me not appointing a surveyor, and if it does fall down, BC have not done their job correctly.

Phil_D

pdstsp wrote:

Had an issue a few years ago when our neighbour wanted to do some work which impacted on our house and one of the factors to be taken into account was the impact on any mortgage you have as there is the potential for the work to impinge on the security of the mortgage holder. Agree with Pross and may even be worth taking some legal advice. We were dealing with our neighbours' cowboy builders and it became an issue which has affected our relationship with our neighbours.

Can you let me have a few more details? I am unsure how the neighbour building the extension will impact on the lenders security (unless of course it reduces the integrity of the structure, which I assume it will not if building control give it the go ahead).

Phil_D

Tenlegs wrote:

Before any work starts you need to appoint a surveyor to draw up a party wall award to ensure
all work carried out is done to the right standard, working hours, before and after checks etc.
If you get on well with your neighbours you could have a 'agreed' surveyor to draw up the award
or each owner can appoint their own surveyor who will draw up the award together, either way
your neighbours will have to pay all the costs.
This recently happened to me and I insisted we had separate surveyors due to a dispute we had over who
owned the party wall and was very glad I did as the party wall my neighbours wanted to demolish and rebuild
was built wholly on my side of the boundary!

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... 133214.pdf

Right standard, before and after checks, is this not the job of Building Control? If they are building at six in the morning on a saturday, I can imagine it would be tough, but it would not last forever. I have read that document but it gives the impression that the party wall act is a bit toothless and it just ensures that the developer is responsible for any damages caused by their work (which is mostly all I want).

Of course, you have experience of this and probably know what I should be worried about...

Pross

Phil_D wrote:

Tenlegs wrote:

Before any work starts you need to appoint a surveyor to draw up a party wall award to ensure
all work carried out is done to the right standard, working hours, before and after checks etc.
If you get on well with your neighbours you could have a 'agreed' surveyor to draw up the award
or each owner can appoint their own surveyor who will draw up the award together, either way
your neighbours will have to pay all the costs.
This recently happened to me and I insisted we had separate surveyors due to a dispute we had over who
owned the party wall and was very glad I did as the party wall my neighbours wanted to demolish and rebuild
was built wholly on my side of the boundary!

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... 133214.pdf

Right standard, before and after checks, is this not the job of Building Control? If they are building at six in the morning on a saturday, I can imagine it would be tough, but it would not last forever. I have read that document but it gives the impression that the party wall act is a bit toothless and it just ensures that the developer is responsible for any damages caused by their work (which is mostly all I want).

Of course, you have experience of this and probably know what I should be worried about...

It's definately not a toothless act. I work on the design team on some pretty big developments and party wall issues get taken very seriously. Also, take a look at one of the Grand Designs series where the Act resulted in huge delays for the developers due to their neighborours refusing to agree to the colour of brick they were trying to use. It is something that seems to get overlooked on small scale extensions though, our neighbours extended without any consultation until we got a retrospective pllanning application a year after it was finished. Their builders damaged our conservatory roof with brick chips but as we had received no notice of work starting we hadn't been able to get a pre-start condition survey sorted out so couldn't prove they had caused the damage!

Phil_D

Pross wrote:

Phil_D wrote:

Tenlegs wrote:

Before any work starts you need to appoint a surveyor to draw up a party wall award to eof this and probably know what I should be worried about...

It's definitely not a toothless act. I work on the design team on some pretty big developments and party wall issues get taken very seriously. Also, take a look at one of the Grand Designs series where the Act resulted in huge delays for the developers due to their neighborours refusing to agree to the colour of brick they were trying to use. It is something that seems to get overlooked on small scale extensions though, our neighbours extended without any consultation until we got a retrospective pllanning application a year after it was finished. Their builders damaged our conservatory roof with brick chips but as we had received no notice of work starting we hadn't been able to get a pre-start condition survey sorted out so couldn't prove they had caused the damage!

That is a very good point. It is all very well having provisions for the developer to make good any damages, but if you cannot prove that the damages were their fault, it isn't enforceable. I guess this is where the party wall surveyor comes in.

Pross

Yes, it is essential to get a survey done before and after.

Tenlegs

Having a Party Wall Surveyor is pretty much standard practice, the party wall act is there to ensure all work is done in the correct manner, it's not the job of Building control, if cracks appear in your property because of the work next-door
you'll need that Party Wall Agreement, the surveyors will inspect your property before and after, taking photos, making notes of any existing defects, it's the only way to do it.

Phil_D

I'll give the surveyor a call.

One last thing.

I am about to have one of the rooms on the adjoining wall plastered. This is likely to take place after their work has commenced but before it is completed. Should my plans now change as a result of my decision to appoint a surveyor?

Tenlegs

Your surveyor will advise, but I put off all the work I was planning until after my neighbours (quite major) work was
signed off.

pdstsp

Phil - I've sent you a pm to clarify.

Stone Glider

Please appoint a Party Wall Surveyor, they need all the work they can get in these troubled times. More importantly, it secures your position with your neighbour; if there should be any dispute then the P W S deals with it, Professionally. No need for personal animosity to intrude and sour your relationship with the neighbours. It is always best to sort things out at the start to avoid misunderstandings or false expectations.

When the works are all over they will still be your neighbours. Best to have any disagreements handled by a third party who can be a useful/convenient scapegoat to assuage indignation or hurt pride.

BrianTrousers

Have you informed your mortgagee (assuming you have a mortgage) and insurers. They'll probably want to know and certainly the insurers will try any trick in the book if something goes wrong and you haven't kept them fully informed.

I added an extension onto the side of my house and had to underpin the entire existing wall length to support the additional weight. It's not quite the same in your situation but Building Control will have to sign this off.

I imagine that the metal ridge you are talking about is the steel beam for the rafters to rest against. Nothing to do with your problem but this seems to be the latest fad amongst Building Control bods who haven't got a clue what this does, i.e. nothing at all! I was forced to have two of these blighters in my extension and they don't do anything. Imagine you're balancing two rafter ends against each other in a triangle, what's the beam for? Look in your loft and the ridge beam will probably be a bit of 22mm floorboard. Rant over.

Good luck!

suffolk-commuter

Have you informed your mortgagee (assuming you have a mortgage) and insurers. They'll probably want to know and certainly the insurers will try any trick in the book if something goes wrong and you haven't kept them fully informed.

+1
As Brian says, your insurance company must be informed as this could affect your policy - there may even be an express clause requiring you to do so. They are likely to ask if you have appointed a Surveyor.

My professional advice (I am a Chartered Surveyor) would be to speak to a Surveyor before any discussion with your neighbours about the works or their proposals. You do not have to agree to anything and in any event, you will be automatically deemed to dissent to the works if you do not respond within 14 days of their notice. This protects your position and activates the process set out within The Party Wall etc Act.

If you are having any difficulty locating a Surveyor, contact RICS.org who will provide you with a list of Chartered Surveyors local to you that are experienced in this field.

slowlanejane

I'm a local government councillor - building regs from the council should come to inspect the foundations once installed and before further works continue - or they will not issue the approvals when needed later. You can call the Building regs team at your local council and discuss your concerns.

Linds

Speak to your neighbour and the Party Wall surveyor. Technicall teh PWS doesn't act on any parties behalf, rather the Act, and as such he should be impartial and only concerned with ensuring that no loss will occur to the adjoining owner.

You are entitled to appoint you own surveyor, at you neighbours cost, but often this is overkill. Just make sure that the PWS will be undertaking a detailed review of the proposed drawings (including struc calcs) and that they undertake a Schedule of Condition (often photographic) of your property to confirm its condition prior to starting the works.

There is case law that is damage is caused to your property and a PWN or a schedule was not issued/prepared that if the damagae is consistant with the works, the building owner (who did the work) will be liable for any damage.

Also don't forget that it is the foundations of the party wall that you are concerned with, and as such he should also be concerned about their structural integrity as much as you are.

Phil_D

slowlanejane wrote:

I'm a local government councillor - building regs from the council should come to inspect the foundations once installed and before further works continue - or they will not issue the approvals when needed later. You can call the Building regs team at your local council and discuss your concerns.

I did just that Jane. I am happy now. Cheers for all the help.