Etiquette for Stationary Traffic at Junctions

Wobbler72

Hi all. As a new cycle rider I need some advice.

One and a half miles into my ride out today I approached an four exit island with about 10 cars queuing. There was space on the inside of the cars so I rode up the inside until I got behind the front car waiting to enter the traffic island. When that car pulled away I moved to the front, intending to head straight on. The car behind me pulled up alongside and, at the next gap in the traffic, we both pulled away. As I did so, I noticed the car next to me was indicating to turn left. I backed off and he turned right across me. Had I not backed off he would have driven straight into me. I shouted abuse at him (which I'm not proud of) and he stopped his car. He told me it was my fault because I had overtaken him on the inside. Now in my mind clearly he's wrong. I filtered past stationary traffic and having found myself in front of him he should have treated me like any other road user. Right or wrong?

Wirral_paul

I would tend to drop in directly behind the last car and take the middle of the lane to be honest. Ok so it may take a minute longer but drivers near the front will be tending to look to their right for the gaps and not see you on the left. Drivers are less inclined to push you about if they do see you waiting your turn. Safer all round really. If you do decide to go near the front then unless you can drop into a gap between two cars to take the lane then you're at greater risk - especially tight to the curb when going past the 1st exit.

Self preservation wins over saving a little time. Most drivers seem to be pretty courteous if they see you riding sensibly - at least around here

BG2000

I'm assuming you mean 'roundabout' and not 'traffic island' ? The latter is what pedestrians stand on in the middle of a busy road when they're crossing.

I look carefully for anyone indicating left, and as you say, if I see someone indicating, I back off and make it clear I've seen them, and hold back to let them turn. They do have priority if they were indicating before you started going past them.

I've certainly had the same problem as you, due to people not indicating until the last second, literally as they've started turning left.

My advice is to be really visible at all times, and have a powerful front light that will shine right into their left mirror (even when it's not dark). As always in these cases, don't give them the excuse of saying they hadn't seen you. I find that most drivers do start indicating when they see me arriving on the inside, and I always hold back. It shows I've acknowledged them, and hopefully gives them more incentive to do it always.

RonB

My view, from what you have described, I think that you need to be in a more assertive primary position once you reach the front of that queue. That way the "offending" motor would not be alongside, but would have stayed behind. I try and stay well away from the kerb to avoid side by side situations like this as they can be unnerving.

velohutts

I go along with Wirral Paul , get in the gap behind the lead car , move 'into' the road thereby dominating your bit of road space.
This allows the car behind you to see you , the lead car will invariably not check the nearside mirror as no-one expects to see some one appear there.
I go with the theory that even if they or you are marginally wrong the best lycra in the world always loses when 1 1/2 ton of metal or more gives you at best a glancing blow , applying courtesy to others generally gets it reciprocated - not always but it stops us getting wound up if we don't put ourselves in position of conflict.

The bright light and high vis tops help no end , a light on the rucksack, back of helmet puts you above bonnet level as well.

Wobbler72

Thanks guys, but bear in mind he definately saw me (how else could he argue that I'd overtaken him on the inside). I'm also sure he wasn't indicating when I passed him. In truth I think he was just miffed that I got past him. Next time I'll swing out from the kerb and take the middle of the road so there can be no mistake.

mididoctors

do not engage in unnecessary verbal exchanges. making a noise to make others aware of your existence is good after the fact angey is a waste of emotional energy that rarely has any benefit what so ever and more likley makes things worse.

as for the incident you need to know ahead of times so if you are in front at the lights/junction check indicators while the lights are still red/before moving off by looking back behind you... making eye contact and obvious inspection of indicators is a helpful information for other road users as well.

other advice on road position given by others is sound but depends a lot on the junction

CarlosDSanchez

I would tend to filter on the right and not the left, but tbh you are taking a bit of a chance if you filter either side. If you go up the left, even if there is a cycle lane, cars generally don't check their mirrors before turning left. If you filter on the right *most* cars will check their mirrors before suddenly pulling out, but not all. Bear in mind a lot of car drivers only relate to other car drivers, so if a car couldn't do it, they don't think anything else will be doing it :-)

johndoran

I never filter down the left side of traffic 'specially vans or lorries. Its just so easy for you to become trapped when they turn left.

pdsalmon

My personal approach is to never filter and wait my turn.

A lot of my riding buddies get understandably annoyed when cars pass too close out on the road - indeed the highway code says that we should be given as much room as a vehicle when passing and treated as a motor vehicle - therefore I do try and ride/act/behave like a motor vehicle at all times, and wait my turn.

Taking up a primary possition on the road is good advice, whether your a filterer or a waiter though.

rolf_f

There's something to be said for not filtering up the queue but you are fortunate if your commute lets you do that without adding considerable time to the trip. On just one junction I could add about 15% to my total journey time by sitting and waiting.

I tend to filter up the outside though and when I am at the head of the queue, try to ensure the front of my bike is ahead of any car (which is easier than it sounds when the junction is angled onto a roundabout). Then I just get moving smartish. Generally, I am much quicker to 10 mph than about 90% of cars. If I am slow to move, I'll tend to stop and let the car alongside go without me. Once ahead, everything is much easier because everyone knows where they are in relation to each other (which is why ASLs work). If you dither and move off slowly, it encourages the cars to move slowly as well and then you end up in that 'after you - no, after you - no, after you' confusing game whilst you both move dangerously slowly across the roundabout.

Of course, all this would be easier if you could rely on people to indicate properly......

Border Cyclist

Hi - lots of good advice. I reckon being assertive and making eye contact is the key. If a driver won't/hasn't made eye contact, then this is when I reevaluate before something stupid happens.

IShaggy

There is no legislation that says a cyclist cannot filter - either on the inside or outside. And the highway code infers that a cyclist can filter -

Under rules for cyclists -

72
On the left. When approaching a junction on the left, watch out for vehicles turning in front of you, out of or into the side road. Just before you turn, check for undertaking cyclists or motorcyclists. Do not ride on the inside of vehicles signalling or slowing down to turn left.

73
Pay particular attention to long vehicles which need a lot of room to manoeuvre at corners. Be aware that drivers may not see you. They may have to move over to the right before turning left. Wait until they have completed the manoeuvre because the rear wheels come very close to the kerb while turning. Do not be tempted to ride in the space between them and the kerb.

I would infer from this that it is acceptable to filter through traffic, but you must be aware as you will potentially be jointly responsible for any accidents that occur whilst filtering.

butcher_boy

I filter on the right even if there is no left turn.

When up the left once as the turn left was a no-entry so thought I was safe. Stupid cow still turned into the no entry & promptly knocked me off.

alihisgreat

I tend to join the back of a queue if I don't know how much longer its going to be stationary for -> because you can't ensure that you can get to the front and into an 'assertive'/visible position before traffic starts moving, and that puts you in danger if drivers aren't checking their left side.

If the lights have just changed or I know I have enough time then I filter down the left and get in front of the lead car.

petemadoc

I once got told off by a copper for filtering on the outside :?

rolf_f

PeteMadoc wrote:

I once got told off by a copper for filtering on the outside :?

But what do a lot of them know? Presumably, they would have no problem with a car crossing the white line to pass parked cars......

suzyb

I usually wait my turn as well. Mainly because the cars have already had to pass me and I don't want to hold them up again.

petemadoc

Rolf F wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

I once got told off by a copper for filtering on the outside :?

But what do a lot of them know? Presumably, they would have no problem with a car crossing the white line to pass parked cars......

He said something along the lines of

"Don't travel on the outside of a queue unless you want to get yourself killed"

Gizmodo

I would tend not to filter, unless the queue was really long and there was a good gap between cars and curb. I definatley would not filter past a car indicating left. I think the driver was right, although he could have been more patient and let you go first.

rolf_f

Gizmodo wrote:

I definatley would not filter past a car indicating left. I think the driver was right, although he could have been more patient and let you go first.

I read it that the driver didn't start to indicate until he was moving - which is common enough. I tend to regard all non indication as intent to confuse rather than intent to driver straight ahead

Wobbler72

I appreciate most of the advice, so thanks all. I'm particularly grateful for the advice regarding the taking of a more dominant position on the road in future. Good point which I'll take on board for next time.

For the record, I'm new to cycling but I'm an intelligent, well educated guy. I'm an experienced car driver (25k mile pa for over 30 years now). I rode motorcycles on the road for many years too. I'm smart enough to use common sense in circumstances I'm familiar with, and humble enough to ask when I don't know.

I specifically look for vehicles indicating to turn left when filtering on the inside (I also do a "lifesaver" when passing left turns on the open road). This guy was definately not indicating when I filtered past him.
FWIW we both had a lucky escape on the day. Me because I spotted his indicator as he passed me and took evasive action. Him because I'm a well trained Muay Thai kickboxer and he got out of his car to abuse me. Despite his foul mouth, his body language suggested he hadn't a clue how to fight (which disarmed me thank God) and he got to walk away unharmed.

neeb

No harm in filtering down the left of stationary traffic, where you can see that it is impossible for it to move significantly while you are doing so. Ideally you want to stop in between two cars in a middle or near-middle lane position, but failing that (where the gap between the cars isn't big enough) you need to decide which car you are going to be in front of when the traffic starts moving, position yourself just in front of it on the left and by whatever means make it very obvious to the driver that you are taking the road position in front of him/her when the traffic starts to move. When the queue in front is starting to move, you can try to make eye contact and turn your front wheel slightly to the direction of the middle of the road - usually the driver will give way and you can tell that they are doing so. If they are going to be an arse and not let you in you can usually also tell. Sometimes at a junction I will deliberately and very obviously (knowing the driver can see me) look at their front indicator light, the idea being to let the driver know that if they are NOT indicating I am assuming that they are not going to turn left and/or they will let me get away first. If they are indicating I will try either drop back behind them or get completely in front.

bails87

Buy cyclecraft btw, it's well worth a read.

Wirral_paul

Wobbler72 wrote:

Him because I'm a well trained Muay Thai kickboxer

Dont try kickboxing in cycling shoes / cleats mind - i think you'd have more success wearing scuba fins on your feet!!

sfichele

Sorry couldn't resist, cleats and fisty cups dont mix well

Wobbler72

LOL. I was on a soft grass verge. The cleats felt like football studs

MichaelW

PeteMadoc wrote:

Rolf F wrote:

PeteMadoc wrote:

I once got told off by a copper for filtering on the outside :?

But what do a lot of them know? Presumably, they would have no problem with a car crossing the white line to pass parked cars......

He said something along the lines of

"Don't travel on the outside of a queue unless you want to get yourself killed"

Filtering always carries dangers so you need to be alert. The dangers include:
Large vehicles that cannot see you.
Large vehicle in the right hand lane but turning left.
Getting doored.
Pedestrians stepping into your path
Cars turning across the line of traffic into/outof a sideroad.
Being unable to regain primary position when the traffic starts.
Cars start moving before you reach the front of the line.
Getting trapped against pedestrian barriers with no escape route.

As long are you remain aware and alert, the dangers are pretty small.
Legally speaking, you are probably better off if you filter on the outside. Cars call this "overtaking".
Policemen who say you will get yourself killed don't know how to ride a bicycle.
Regarding the situation of the OP, be thankful that the car had a working indicator. Most cars turn left across your path without any indication. Expect drivers do do stupid things whenever you give them the opportunity.

FJS

This is a daily source of frustration - cars here are so rubbish at using their indicators when turning left - they forget, or just don't bother assuming nobody's interested as they're on the left already anyway. And then there's all the drivers that turn on the indicator only after they've started driving.... and then act surprised you're on their inside

Serious issue for more emphasis in driving tests - use of indicators and checking of wing mirrors, especially in cities

gmacz

Watch the first car at the junction and let him go left or straight ahead, you are next in line if filtering and do not let any driver bully you of the road. Mostly you and the car can go at the same time left, if you are going straight, you have right of way and the second left turn driver will have to wait.
Be positive and do not take offence at idiotic behaviour, you will see loads of it and it is gone in seconds.
You will enjoy cycling more.
If it is a fast moving juction with few cars, you might want to wait your turn otherwise -GET IN THERE MY SON.
It is one of the benefits of bikes.

SaintMark

Car drivers do not routinely check their left hand mirrors unless planning to change lanes left, or parking - so you need to assume you're invisible if you're to the left of cars and moving faster than them. Drivers might know you're there if they recently overtook you but in a car you generally don't expect anyone to pass you on the left. Drivers can't look everywhere at once, so much as we wish they would, we have to respect that.

It depends very much on the road layout but I would say the number of fatalities involving bikes and HGVs turning left should be enough to persuade anyone not to pass on the left in most situations. I regularly overtake a queue of cars waiting to leave my workplace but I go on the right hand side if the traffic is stationary. If it's moving at a speed I can keep up with, I take a place in the queue, staying in the centre of the lane so the car behind can't get past. Otherwise cars are tempted to overtake and then slam their brakes on.

Have a think next time you're driving, and you find yourself in a similar traffic situation, and compare the driver's eye view. I find that helps me see both sides of the story.