How does the lead out man work?

Teach

Marc Cavendish and Mark Renshaw make for a fantastic pairing but why? What difference does the lead out man make?
Why couldn't Cavendish get on the back of someone else's wheel? My first thought was he was being led at the speed he wants, but the other teams will put a stop to that a vary/ push the speed. Why if Renshaw is at the front doen't he take more wins?
Not sure what difference it makes, but it certainly works.

ddraver

Well that last sentence is debatable....

Basically if you on the back of someone else's wheel they ll do everything they can to dislodge you can screw up your sprint whereas if it's a team member, he will try as hard as he can to give you the best possible chance...

Teach

Why is the last sentence debatable? He won green in the TDF.

No_Ta_Doctor

Well firstly, Renshaw doesn't lead Cav out any more, as they're not on the same team.
Secondly, while Renshaw is undoubtedly an excellent lead out, Cav is a truly exceptional sprinter. Cav has shown on many occasions that he can win races even when his lead-out screws up.

A lead out's job is to deliver his rider to within a couple of hundred metres of the finish line in both a good position and good condition to contest the sprint. To do this he'll have to ride the last kilometre or so at very high tempo, but doesn't actually need the explosive burst of speed in the last two hundred metres. He'll also need to be able to protect his rider and defend their position in the pack, manoeuvre into the best position for his rider, be able to judge and respond to events in the pack - all the while doing this based on how best to put his rider into the best position.

He needs intelligence, a good understanding with his rider, a good physical presence, possibly the ability to intimidate other riders and obviously a good high speed.

They're attributes that also tend to make a decent sprinter, which is why you often see decent sprinters leading out very good ones.

As to why Renshaw doesn't win from the front, it's because he's put all his energy into delivering his sprinter to the right place at the right time. His race is over 200m before the finish line.

No_Ta_Doctor

Teach wrote:

Why is the last sentence debatable? He won green in the TDF.

Because it should have been in the past tense. They don't ride together any more.

ddraver

No tA Doctor wrote:

Teach wrote:

Why is the last sentence debatable? He won green in the TDF.

Because it should have been in the past tense. They don't ride together any more.

...or because it suggests that the only reason Cav wins in Renshaw

Teach

Thank you for all your detailed responses. I was unsure as to the role of the lead out man and when you listen to the commentators to me it does imply that the reson a lot of sprinters win is due to the help of the lead out man. I am under no illusions that these sprinters are in a totally different league to me, but as I don't compete I was just trying to understand it all a bit more. Which i do now. Cheers

And yes that was a bit of a gaff still pairing Cav with Renshaw!

rick_chasey

Depends how good the leadout is..

http://www.sporza.be/permalink/1.1218837

frenchfighter

Teach wrote:

Thank you for all your detailed responses. I was unsure as to the role of the lead out man and when you listen to the commentators to me it does imply that the reson a lot of sprinters win is due to the help of the lead out man. I am under no illusions that these sprinters are in a totally different league to me, but as I don't compete I was just trying to understand it all a bit more. Which i do now. Cheers

And yes that was a bit of a gaff still pairing Cav with Renshaw!

Looks like you got some unhelpful comments above - seen a few recently from the likes of dd boy.

The leadout man is certainly an important part. The sprinter trusts their leadout man very well and knows the way they ride and what they will do in the lead up. This enables the sprinter to relax a little more, conserving energy for the sprint. It also enables him to get closer to the rider in front and to maintain a better position coming into the final sprint. The best leadouts are from a pairing that is established and it often takes a while for it to gel. Cavendish mentions his leadouts for good reason and many of the other sprinters now and before now have a solid man to lead them. Many sprinters, although not all, are able to ride other riders wheels and win, rather than having a dedicated leadout, but this is more difficult, tiring and dangerous. Often times a sprinter may not have a leadout as their team is focused more on GC placing or another goal and so the sprinter has to fend for themselves as the others in the team are drafted in for other goals than sprint wins. In short a leadout man makes it easier but is not essential.

Someone like Eisel will also be a key role in the sprinter's race due to what happens before the sprint like in this example where Cavendish is being helped up a mountain.

Reading Cav's book or watching some of the Grand Tours, you will read or see occasions where Cav is off the back in difficulty and his team eventually bring him back to the peloton and lead him out for the win.

ddraver

Wow, i ve been dissed by Fenchie, I feel so honoured (Cyclismas article still smarting is it?)

I said exactly what you said but in two and without illustrations...The last sentence was a misunderstanding which was rapidly cleared up.

shinyhelmut

Yes but you've only got half the number of posts so FF's opinion is worth more.

ddraver

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Yes but you've only got half the number of posts so FF's opinion is worth more.

Ahhhhhhh, I see. Post retracted.

No_Ta_Doctor

ddraver wrote:

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Yes but you've only got half the number of posts so FF's opinion is worth more.

Ahhhhhhh, I see. Post retracted.

I'll also bow to FF's superior post count.
I'll admit I never realised Cav was getting lead out from halfway up a mountain before, but you live and learn.

shinyhelmut

Of course you will want to disregard my post too as a mere sub 800 post newbie.

No_Ta_Doctor

ShinyHelmut wrote:

Of course you will want to disregard my post too as a mere sub 800 post newbie.

You don't have a high enough post count for me to value your opinion on whether to disregard your post or not.


In all seriousness, I like FF and think he makes valuable input to the life of the forum (though I'm not always keen on oversize pictures when I'm browsing on my phone).

He has his evident blind spots and perhaps takes things a little too seriously from time to time, but on the whole he seems a decent bloke and a good poster.

I don't want to turn this thread into a debate on FF's persona, just wanted to let him know it's just gentle teasing. We should probably give it a rest though.

shinyhelmut

Absolutely, a little naive from time to time but generally a positive contributor to this forum.

frenchfighter

Don't worry TA. It doesn't bother me much as it is a reflection on the poster and I don't even bother to read much of it especially if I see an avatar with a history. Too much time from people making comments about other people etc etc and not about interesting or useful things. Basically providing padding and no substance. It's fine as this is a public forum and you all can do as you wish but I don't have to like some of it, pay attention to some of it or be apart of it. It is funny how quickly people can react.

Large res pics I dont think will be a problem anymore as this new forum cuts them off in anycase.

No_Ta_Doctor

frenchfighter wrote:

Don't worry TA. It doesn't bother me much as it is a reflection on the poster and I don't even bother to read much of it especially if I see an avatar with a history. Too much time from people making comments about other people etc etc and not about interesting or useful things. Basically providing padding and no substance. It's fine as this is a public forum and you all can do as you wish but I don't have to like some of it, pay attention to some of it or be apart of it. It is funny how quickly people can react.

To be brutally honest, you don't really do yourself many favours with that post.

RichN95.

frenchfighter wrote:

I don't even bother to read much of it especially if I see an avatar with a history.

Is that why you change yours every week?

frenchfighter

king of the witty one liners eh rich.

mfin

I'll second FF, that was brilliant Rich!

No_Ta_Doctor

mfin wrote:

I'll second FF, that was brilliant Rich!

Rich spots the gap, puts mfin on FFs wheel and bang!

That's how lead out works.