52mm vs 60mm Aero Wheels Really much difference?

bus_ter

I've been looking at budget aero wheels to try them out, such as Carbonzone and Planet-X etc.

On the Planet-X site they list the 52mm as .. "great fast-riding all-rounders. Use them for crits, general racing, time trials, triathlon and group rides."

They list the 60mm as "The 60mm rim depth makes these our recommended wheels for against-the-clock efforts and fast riding in flatter terrain." The 60mm are 14g heavier than the 52mm.

Does the 8mm really make a huge difference? Will you even be able to tell the difference? Are the 60mm going to be significantly more affected by side wind compared to 52mm?

Also for general riding, club runs etc (but not hill climbs) how large would you go?

Monty Dog

For general riding, anything over 40mm on the front can be a bit of a handful in strong cross-winds - if unwary, you can find yourself a couple of feet across the road.

oldraver

bus_ter wrote:

I've been looking at budget aero wheels to try them out, such as Carbonzone and Planet-X etc.

On the Planet-X site they list the 52mm as .. "great fast-riding all-rounders. Use them for crits, general racing, time trials, triathlon and group rides."

They list the 60mm as "The 60mm rim depth makes these our recommended wheels for against-the-clock efforts and fast riding in flatter terrain." The 60mm are 14g heavier than the 52mm.

Does the 8mm really make a huge difference? Will you even be able to tell the difference? Are the 60mm going to be significantly more affected by side wind compared to 52mm?

Also for general riding, club runs etc (but not hill climbs) how large would you go?

What Monty says for general riding although a lot does depend on your bike handling skills.

Aerodynamics matters less in bunch riding ( until the final sprint ) as riding in a group will create less drag than riding solo.
Also if you do decide to get into racing then, don't forget that for events run under UCI rules for mass start races all non standard wheels must have approval. Smaller budget manufacturers tend not to do this because of the cost.
UCI rules for wheels >>>>>>>> http://www.uci.ch/Modules/BUILTIN/getOb ... Y&LangId=1

For time trials run under UCI rules as long as the wheels are the same size i.e both 650c or 700c then anything goes.
Under CTT time trial rules at least 45% of the surface of the front wheel must be clear ( rules out a Zipp 1080 ).

Bit of a minefield to give any general recommendations unfortunatley.

oldraver

Ps if you are anywhere near Newcastle upon Tyne then you are welcome to try these out to show how different wheels can affect handling ( not for sale though ) edit: bit big right click then view image :oops:

bus_ter

Funny you should say that, but I actually live in Newcastle.. Do you ride with any of the clubs? Gosforth etc?

What size rims are the HEDS and SRAMs?

oldraver

Don't ride with any of the clubs.
The wheels are Jet 9 front, Jet disc rear, Hed 3 deep rear, Hed 3 front & SRAM s80 wheelset.
The Hed Jet 6 front & SRAM s60 are out on lone at the moment.
I am down on the coast so give me a pm if you want to organise a test ride :-)

mellowmiles

sorry to revive this thread but how did you get on with the wheel selection?

looking at picking some 55mm depth wheels for general riding but was a bit peturbed by the possibility of picking up too much speed on downhills and crosswinds etc. also looking at a set of 45mm. have semi rule out 35mm as not sure really worth investing serious coin if the gains aren't that much compared to a shallow rim. I also live in newcastle and tend to do sportives like the cyclone, wooler wheel etc. considering some racing but want get some more cycling in me first! Any thoughts welcome

Anonymous

I think the difference would be minimal. If you consider how important a 52mm is vs a box section rim it's pretty minimal unless up to speed. Then 52 vs 60 is even less so.

I started riding with 50mm wheels last summer and love them. I find the braking isn't excellent on steep descents but that could be due to poor pads. On the flat they certainly don't fail to put a smile on my face and encourage me to push a bit harder. I can highly recommend scratching the itch if you can afford to

mellowmiles

coriordan wrote:

I think the difference would be minimal. If you consider how important a 52mm is vs a box section rim it's pretty minimal unless up to speed. Then 52 vs 60 is even less so.

I started riding with 50mm wheels last summer and love them. I find the braking isn't excellent on steep descents but that could be due to poor pads. On the flat they certainly don't fail to put a smile on my face and encourage me to push a bit harder. I can highly recommend scratching the itch if you can afford to

Thanks ! :-)

Bobbinogs

The majority of the sportives I have done are hillfests and have a large number of riders. For those kind of factors, I would probably avoid really deep rims unless you can afford very good light carbon tubs and ride at a decent pace...as above, riding in a pack negates most of the aero advantage and deep cheap rims are generally heavy and will feel decidedly sluggish when battling up a 20% climb after 80 miles. If you want nice bling factory wheels for a variety of rides then something like Ksyrium Elites (2016) might be a better bet, particularly if you want good all weather braking.

Plenty of threads on racing wheels but you would probably be better off spending the first year in Cat 4 races with something cheap and functional like Zondas since the 'performance' won't hold you back and getting them trashed by some chopper who cannot hold a line will be a lot less painful.

mellowmiles

''...getting them trashed by some chopper who cannot hold a line will be a lot less painful.''

I nearly wet myself reading this! LOL. Actually I like the idea of a beater for for racing so will look into the scirrocos thanks.

Anonymous

For racing I'd say Zondas are amazing and actually, for the money, my RS21s are surprisingly stiff.

But for just fast rides and putting a smile on your face on a sunny day? I do love the carbons. I'm fairly light and have cheap ones and stiffness isn't a major issue

mellowmiles

for longer rides how do you find handling the 50s with decents Coriordan? any cross wind fear or is it largely over estimated?

Anonymous

Generally nothing to be worried about. Yes they do catch the wind a little at the front but are quick to correct themselves and if it's blowing a hoolie then perhaps it's not the weather for them. Otherwise it's not something I ever really worried about before I bought them and not since I've owned them.

cycleclinic

I have two sets of carbon wheels currently. One is 38mm deep and v shaped but 20.5mm wide the is other is 26.5mm wide 50mm deep and u shaped. The difference is big. In cross winds the shallower v shapped rims are more of a handful but in terms of pace i feel little difference i am sure in a wind tunnel there will be a difference in drag.

If you are goin deep go wide as the wheels will be rideable. Ridden my deeper wind in gales and found them to controlable.

Bobbingons i dont know about you but every rider i know would feel sluggish on a 20% gradient after 80 miles whether they are on light wheels or not.

StillGoing

I've used 50mm deep rims and not particularly keen. 45mm is fine, but I prefer 38mm as a good medium between an aero wheel and ok for climbing. My tubs are 45mm rear and 38mm front whilst the carbon clinchers are 50mm front and rear. Much prefer the tubs. If I know it's going to be very windy and a lot of uphill, I'll stick the Fulcrum Racing 3s on.

mellowmiles

philthy3 wrote:

I've used 50mm deep rims and not particularly keen. 45mm is fine, but I prefer 38mm as a good medium between an aero wheel and ok for climbing. My tubs are 45mm rear and 38mm front whilst the carbon clinchers are 50mm front and rear. Much prefer the tubs. If I know it's going to be very windy and a lot of uphill, I'll stick the Fulcrum Racing 3s on.

Thanks for the input guys definitely plan on going wide.
Phil is that more due to the weight advantage of the tubs or do you think it's more the depth? I often wonder if spending the coin on a rim depth in the 30s is worth it over a box rim but i guess you seem to have a 3.4 type combo. from your comment it doesn't seem that handling was the issue for you correct?
btw i agree if looking very windy wouldn't risk deeper rims anyway.

cycleclinic

Honestly this weight thing is overplayed. My 50mm deep wide clinchers have rims weighing 500g and the wheels are 1650g. My 38mm deep tubulars have rims weighing 300g and wheels weight 1020g. You would think the difference is noticable it is but it is also irrelevant to how fast I ride.

both wheels are stiff but when I press on my legs still ache. the bike feels a bit different with the lighter wheels but not enough to go wow I must ride my lighter wheels all the time. I am very sensitive to how a bike feels too it is just weight is overplayed.

I think mellowmiles may have V- shaped narrow 50mm deep rimmed wheels. These perform very differently to a modern U shaped profile. In fact it is like comparing apples and oranges. I would not ride a V shaped rim over 40mm.

TheBasics

Others have commented on weight, rim width and shape, cross-wind resistance etc. Those are the important things. I would only add that without aero data you can't really know that the 60mm will outperform a 52mm. Those wheels are pretty similar, so there may be no aero resistance difference. There may also be wheel model comparisons (not necessarily with these) where a 52mm will outperform a 60mm on aero. A fair bit comes down to design, not just depth.

mellowmiles

thecycleclinic wrote:

Honestly this weight thing is overplayed. My 50mm deep wide clinchers have rims weighing 500g and the wheels are 1650g. My 38mm deep tubulars have rims weighing 300g and wheels weight 1020g. You would think the difference is noticable it is but it is also irrelevant to how fast I ride.

both wheels are stiff but when I press on my legs still ache. the bike feels a bit different with the lighter wheels but not enough to go wow I must ride my lighter wheels all the time. I am very sensitive to how a bike feels too it is just weight is overplayed.

I think mellowmiles may have V- shaped narrow 50mm deep rimmed wheels. These perform very differently to a modern U shaped profile. In fact it is like comparing apples and oranges. I would not ride a V shaped rim over 40mm.

yup indeed... got them on 2nd hand to try my hand about 2 years ago but to be honest don't think put more than 200miles on them. I want to like them and they look nice but objectively they haven't helped me get any PRs. So i know Aero isn't everything but like you say clearly there seems to be so much noise about deeper wider wheels i'm assuming i've just got the wrong wheels for me and will be selling these for the new pair. Just went to my LBS and they suggested wide 35mm for sportives and all round riding which makes sense... but as some other poster mentioned... i've got an itch ha!!

cycleclinic

On bike radars front page is enve new ses2.2 wheels with a bikd claim they float up hills. Given i have wheels that weigh the same why is it then i blew up at the 60 mile mark up primrose hill. They definatley did not float that day.

Yes a prevous poster is right there are 52mm deep rims that out performs 60mm deep ones. Also tyre choice actually has an impact too. Tests have been done that have found my favourite tyre the vittoris corsa is 1w or so worse than the conti gp4000s when mounted on the same rim. Tyre width of the conti will be a bit bigger too. This aero thing is not as simple as looking at rim depth.

StillGoing

mellowmiles wrote:

philthy3 wrote:

I've used 50mm deep rims and not particularly keen. 45mm is fine, but I prefer 38mm as a good medium between an aero wheel and ok for climbing. My tubs are 45mm rear and 38mm front whilst the carbon clinchers are 50mm front and rear. Much prefer the tubs. If I know it's going to be very windy and a lot of uphill, I'll stick the Fulcrum Racing 3s on.

Thanks for the input guys definitely plan on going wide.
Phil is that more due to the weight advantage of the tubs or do you think it's more the depth? I often wonder if spending the coin on a rim depth in the 30s is worth it over a box rim but i guess you seem to have a 3.4 type combo. from your comment it doesn't seem that handling was the issue for you correct?
btw i agree if looking very windy wouldn't risk deeper rims anyway.

Nothing to do with weight advantages or not. I prefer the aesthetics of 38mm and they seem (for me anyway) to be less prone to sudden side gusts when passing field gates etc. It came about when I smashed the 45mm front wheel hitting a submerged pothole. I opted to replace it with a 38mm having previously had a 38mm set that were excellent in cross winds. The front will always suffer from sudden side gusts due to it having pivotal movement whereas the rear is only going to go wherever the bike goes so no need to change the rear too, otherwise I would have. Both my carbon tubs and carbon clinchers are U shaped rims too. I run 25mm tyres on both sets.

nicklong

I think the UCI rules just changed to limit the rim depth to below 60mm this season, so some manufacturers have reduced their rim depths recently to comply. I'm not sure if that would be a factor for you if you race.

I've just gone from 50mm to 41mm, both feel about the same in a straight line. Both feel much quicker than 24mm (Ksyrium).

cycleclinic

Again why kind of rims where you using philthy3 wide u shaped or narrow v shapdd. If it is the later i am not surprised you got blown about.

If stating rim deoth with regards to handling state what rim width a shape you have because this is important.

mellowmiles

Thanks i think my limit would be 55 anyway.

I'll just add that i'm not just relying on aero wheels to change my life, as it were, This winter I've been working on staying in the drops for as long as possible during rides and dealing with accelerations. However, I weigh 67kg so i feel i need all the help i can get!

StillGoing

thecycleclinic wrote:

Again why kind of rims where you using philthy3 wide u shaped or narrow v shapdd. If it is the later i am not surprised you got blown about.

If stating rim deoth with regards to handling state what rim width a shape you have because this is important.

Wide U shaped on both. The front 50mm (for me least ways) feels very nervous in sudden cross winds whereas the 38mm front is barely noticeable. I'm not savvy/informed enough to know whether it has anything to do with the type of tyre being used. The 38mm has a Veloflex Arenburg tub and the 50mm clincher a Continental GP4000 ii.

philbar72

I've used a few on the road bike and the best all rounders are around 45mm u shaped and broad. 303's are good at pretty much most things. they climb well, and handle fine as well as being fast in a straight line. I've also Hed Jet 6+ wheels for faster roads. very nice though not great uphill. both aren't bad in crosswinds. though that of course depends on the speed of the crosswind...