Hardtails are crap

Shaggy_Dog

Just built up a summer season from the parts from my HiFi Pro Carbon (I.E. XTR/X0, fox F120, Rhythm Pro's etc). added about half a pound but assume it will make up for it with playful handling. Just took it out down my local woods.

I don't like it.

That was an expensive and time consuming experiment.

mikeysickalrigh

I agree with that

cooldad

That's because you are a rubbish rider and don't have the skillzz etc blah blah blah.

The Northern Monkey

Would not agree... You need longer forks for that frame.

trail jacker

+1 for longer forks, 140mm to 160mm is the ideal amount for the summer season as its slacker than the 456

Northwind

Summer Season works magic with 120mm- still slack, but low. But it's not a frame for everyone- it's pretty damn stiff, and the handling's an aquired taste too.

Shaggy_Dog

I'm running 120mm with the G2 offset, the front wheel is writing cheques that the rear can't cash as it is, I can't see how increasing the front travel will improve anything. As for a slack frame needing long forks, surely that's an oxymoron. A slack head angle is a result of long forks, not a cause for them to be necessary.

My major gripe with it is top tube length, way too short for an 18" frame. It gives me the same front-centre as the HiFi, basically negating the benefit of the slack head angle, so I lose a load of quick steering feel and cockpit length and gain no stability. It's certainly stiff, way, way, way, way stiffer than the HiFi, which is actually bendier than one of those shatter-proof rulers you used to have in secondary school. It's so stiff I basically have no grip from the back end and it's giving me a right kicking, but i must admit it's nice to have a bike that doesn't change gears on your behalf every time you decide to get a hustle on. One other redeeming feature as mentioned by Northwind is that it has a nice low front end, I like low front ends.

The Northern Monkey

To be fair, the top tubes on the 456's are stupidly short.

The way I got around the stiff rear end on my NS was to have a large volume tyre and run it at a lower pressure, but I was using it as a FR/DH bike so that didn't matter.

Shaggy_Dog

On another note, if a frame is so flexy that the gears don't work and that the tyre hits the seat tube, despite not touching it when the shock is expelled of air and fully compressed, do you think Trek would entertain me returning it for warranty as unfit for purpose? I used to work for a bike shop that sold Trek bikes and I know from experience that they are tough on warranty returns. I'm only running a 2.2 inch tyre. The bike has never shifted properly, now the components are transferred to another frame, I know that it isn't the fault of worn or faulty drivertrain products, it's an under-engineered frame

lawman

The Northern Monkey wrote:

To be fair, the top tubes on the 456's are stupidly short.

you think 456's are short, you should ride my HD!!

18" summer season effective tt - 609mm

17" Mojo HD effective tt - 584mm

Hence why i run an 80mm stem and the saddle slammed right back on the rails

The Northern Monkey

lawman wrote:

The Northern Monkey wrote:

To be fair, the top tubes on the 456's are stupidly short.

you think 456's are short, you should ride my HD!!

18" summer season effective tt - 609mm

17" Mojo HD effective tt - 584mm

Hence why i run an 80mm stem and the saddle slammed right back on the rails

I actually thought the whole front triangle was small!
Looking at an 18" 456, it looks like it should be a 16"... My 15.5" NS Surge had a 585mm top tube, but rode (and looked) like a MUCH larger framed bike - definitely felt bigger than the 456 to ride, and I was running a 40mm stem!

Northwind

Heh, try my Last Herb... It's a medium, I'm 5'10, and if I'm not careful I knee the fork crowns every time I pedal It's fab, like, but you could use it as a coathanger, as long as you don't have a very big coat.

supersonic

So you buy a cheapo heavy frame that doesn't fit and you don't like it? Hmmmm ;-)

Listed sizes mean nowt.

Double your money, get the carbon 456. Maybe study the geo...

Shaggy_Dog

It just has silly kid sized wheels. Should have bought a 20" in hindsight

Anonymous

The Northern Monkey wrote:

To be fair, the top tubes on the 456's are stupidly short.

Steel or carbon?

The carbon 456 I find are longer than other bikes I've had, and indeed the 16" has a longer top tube than many typical 18" bikes. I got the 16" because of that and it's still a longer reach than my medium Nomad.

On-one themselves say their top tubes on their bikes in general are "consistently long" (whatever that means).

But on the original point. Is the fit just totally wrong or just different to what you're used to. Ride the bike loads more. I found the longer reach to normal I had to adjust to but didn't take long. If you've been used to full sus for some time, hard tails take a bit of getting used to. Found it some effort on my 456 at first but now it's a blast.

ilovedirt

456's have very long top tubes, longer than any other bike i've owned. Not sure what you guys who reckon they're short are on about!?