Tyres like Nobby Nic, but without the sudden 'give'?

bails87

Anyone else know what I mean by 'sudden give'?

I've currently got 2.25 Nobby Nics on the 456C. They're great in a straight line, good in most conditions (I only really ride trail centres, and I've got Mud Xs for if it's properly bogging), fairly quick, light, but.....there's a definite point where, once I lean past it, they just 'go', as if the bike's been kicked out sideways from under me.

Is there anything like the NN, but with a more gradual slide rather than sudden snap at the limit?

Just FYI: Most of my riding is at Cannock Chase, I also get over to Wales, and hoping to get up to Scotland soon. so general rocky, gritty, sandy, rooty mix of all round riding. I don't want to be dragging a 2.5" 40a DH tyre around with me, so something that on the (more aggressive) XC side of things rather than a gravity oriented choice. 2.25" seems to be good, so something around that.

I've heard good things about the new Conti Mountain Kings, and I'm interested by the Black Chili concept, I also liked the Maxxis Advantages, but they start to get heavy above 2.1".

So, any suggestions or should I stick with the NNs?

I know this might be like the million other 'what tyre' threads, so apologies!

d00m

Some of the WTB tyres have really aggressive side knobs, so if you're a rider who tends to chuck the bike on its side, the weirwolf/mutano raptor might work for you. Or the Bronson for xc'ish stuff perhaps.

Maxxis minion is also an excellent front choice.

benpinnick

The contis are definitely better than the NNs, but it's probably not worth £70 tbh.

R0B75

The problem I find with Cannock is the top surface on a lot of the trail is pretty loose/cut up and leaning into corners too far can make you wash out at any time. I'm not sure any tyre will avoid that totally but then I've not tried every tyre. Maxxis Advantage 2.25 still slip easily for me, they're good everywhere else though. Llandegla has a much better surface overall and they work fine there.

Stevo_666

The black chilli compound on my Conti Rubber Queens grip well and seems to be pretty progressive, though these might be a bit on the heavy side for you? (the smallest size - 2.2's - come up big as well, they look more like 2.35/2.4's). Might be worth trying the Mountain Kings in black chilli?

.blitz

Advantages are amongst the best all-rounders for the Chase but as you say they are no lightweights. IME none of the lightweight tyres are any good the sidewalls are so thin and flexible the pressure they need to keep them stable compromises the grip. If you must have a lightweight tyre look very closely at your fork it may be possible to set it up super-plush so that the fork is doing all the work instead of the tyre.

2-ply tyres are the thick end of a kilogram but you can run low pressures for max grip and they stay put on the rims. FR Big Bettys or 2.5 DHFs absolutely do not let go on the Chase wet or dry it makes no difference they feel as though they are carving a path through the rubble instead of skating over it

A more trailable solution would be Ardent/HR/Advantage F + CrossMark R. CrossMarks not as bad as you might think except when the conditions are very bad.

High Rollers let go a bit later than Nics but it's a scrabbly kind of feeling rather than the whoosh WTF sensation you get from Nics. By all accounts the HRIIs address this issues but I've not tried them myself.

Almightydutch

Another firm believe of Maxxis rubber on Cannock Chase. I run a 2.35 Single ply Minion DHF on the front all year round. Not once have I had it let go by itself.

On the rear I usually run a Maxxis Medusa 2.1. I find the smaller size rolls really well and finds traction in the crap when not much else does. Crackin combo for all year!!

Squarepants

Hans Dampf

robertpb

The latest Nobby Nics are different to older versions, bigger lugs, different compounds.

I've never found them to be a breakaway tyre unlike my High Rollers, NN's are very pressure sensitive if you put too much air in them they will behave badly.

Schwalbes recommendations of 28psi for a 75kg riding weight is not far off the mark for loose surfaces, I usually have 26 in the rear.

Last year I spent 5 days riding the trails around Edale, loaded the car with Nics, HRs, Minions and Mud Xs, only used the Nics.

bails87

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Maybe I'll lower the pressures a bit, not sure what they're at ATM, but I tend to vary them and it seems to be a consistent issue. I don't mind the tyre losing grip at a certain point...It's not really a case of wanting more grip, just wanting a tail off in grip as they approach the limit, rather than the snap.

If it wasn't for this niggly issue they'd be perfect (for me/my riding/my bike, anyway).

bennett_346

It may just be to do with them being so narrow, i find wider tyres more stable regardless of the tread.

Stevo_666

bails87 wrote:

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Maybe I'll lower the pressures a bit, not sure what they're at ATM, but I tend to vary them and it seems to be a consistent issue. I don't mind the tyre losing grip at a certain point...It's not really a case of wanting more grip, just wanting a tail off in grip as they approach the limit, rather than the snap.

If it wasn't for this niggly issue they'd be perfect (for me/my riding/my bike, anyway).

Worth playing with pressures before you bin them as TBH I don't have a problem with them on my Anthem and as you know NN's ain't cheap!

bails87

Stevo 666 wrote:

Worth playing with pressures before you bin them as TBH I don't have a problem with them on my Anthem and as you know NN's ain't cheap!

Yep, absolutely, I think Gazlar wants them if I get rid, so it won't be a total loss

Bennett: Narrow? Compared to what? They seem a fairly healthy width at 2.25".

Mojo_666

bails87 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Worth playing with pressures before you bin them as TBH I don't have a problem with them on my Anthem and as you know NN's ain't cheap!

Yep, absolutely, I think Gazlar wants them if I get rid, so it won't be a total loss

Bennett: Narrow? Compared to what? They seem a fairly healthy width at 2.25".

2.4-2.5 maybe

My 2.4 Albert at 25psi is a MASSIVE improvement over my 2.25 Nic at 35-40 psi, I am actually starting to gain confidence in my bike in slicker conditions, but have experimented with tyres and pressure to get to the point I am at now but I think width and pressure have paid the biggest roles.

.blitz

Flirted for a while with a 2.4 SS Nic and it was much better than the 2.25, mostly because the stiffer sidewalls allowed lower pressure and more grip yadda yadda yadda

But taking into account the extra width, height and Snakeskin sidewalls it wasn't really a Nobby Nic it was more like a 2.5 DHF

Schwalbe's PR have done a good job of stitching people up.

rockmonkeysc

Sounds like a technique problem rather than a tyre problem. Nobby Nics are fine at daft lean angles.
Weight back, push down on the outside pedal shove the bike down under you. That should mash the tyres in to the dirt and give loads of grip. Also try dropping the pressure to about 30-35psi.
If you still have problems Muddy Marys have enormous grip when cranked.

bennett_346

bails87 wrote:

Stevo 666 wrote:

Worth playing with pressures before you bin them as TBH I don't have a problem with them on my Anthem and as you know NN's ain't cheap!

Yep, absolutely, I think Gazlar wants them if I get rid, so it won't be a total loss

Bennett: Narrow? Compared to what? They seem a fairly healthy width at 2.25".

That seems very narrow to me, i feel unstable on tyres that thin.

Rushmore

i never really seem to have a major problem with washing out on my NN unless i have them rock hard...

So I run the front at around 30 psi and the back at around 40, that way it drifts... but you still have to be going some for it to do that....

bails87

RockmonkeySC wrote:

Sounds like a technique problem rather than a tyre problem. Nobby Nics are fine at daft lean angles.
Weight back, push down on the outside pedal shove the bike down under you. That should mash the tyres in to the dirt and give loads of grip. Also try dropping the pressure to about 30-35psi.
If you still have problems Muddy Marys have enormous grip when cranked.

Could be technique, I won't claim to be a perfect rider but....again, it's not the amount of grip, but the sudden change. They're absolutely spot on apart from this one thing, so it's not a case of needing a higher level of grip, just wanting the grip to spread around the edge of the tyre a little more.

bennett_346 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Bennett: Narrow? Compared to what? They seem a fairly healthy width at 2.25".

That seems very narrow to me, i feel unstable on tyres that thin.

2.25" is 'very narrow'? For general trail/XC duties? On One recommend up to a 2.3", so it's not as if I'm a million miles away from that.

Rushmore wrote:

i never really seem to have a major problem with washing out on my NN unless i have them rock hard...

So I run the front at around 30 psi and the back at around 40, that way it drifts... but you still have to be going some for it to do that....

Well, that's the fun bit isn't it! But that is when they go, when I'm pushing hard in terms of speed and I've stuck the bike right over for a corner.

As said, I don't mind the drift, but the sudden 'break'. Maybe I'm getting past the limits of 'driftable' grip so I just need something stickier

It sounds like there's no obvious "these are just like a NN but drift more than they snap" so I'll stick to playing with pressures for a bit, they're usually around 30 so I'll let a bit out, give them a hammering round Cannock and if I'm not plagued by pinch flats or slips then I can consider the problem solved.....and £80 saved!

rockmonkeysc

Could be technique, I won't claim to be a perfect rider but....again, it's not the amount of grip, but the sudden change. They're absolutely spot on apart from this one thing, so it's not a case of needing a higher level of grip, just wanting the grip to spread around the edge of the tyre a little more.

Poor technique can cause tyres to suddenly break rather than drift.
2.25" is not too narrow unless you need big volume for fast riding on rocky or rooty trails. Narrower tyres can be better in mud, my 2.35" Muddy Mary's are a nightmare when things get muddy, because they don't cut through thick mud they don't find the grip underneath the slop & also the drag makes them hard work. I use big tyres because I'm a bit on the tubby side so I need the volume to reduce the risk of pinch flats.

bennett_346

bails87 wrote:

bennett_346 wrote:

bails87 wrote:

Bennett: Narrow? Compared to what? They seem a fairly healthy width at 2.25".

That seems very narrow to me, i feel unstable on tyres that thin.

2.25" is 'very narrow'? For general trail/XC duties? On One recommend up to a 2.3", so it's not as if I'm a million miles away from that.

That's why i said they seem very narrow to me, you may prefer narrower tyres, i prefer wider ones. You asked for advice on tyres and i'm giving it. Also, what difference does it make what On One reccomend? I do "general trail/XC duties" if you want to put a label on it, and i run a 2.35 front and i prefer the grip over the slight increase in drag it gives. I've ran 2.0 rear and 2.25 front before for the same sort of thing and found them skittish, and the treads weren't much different to the wider ones i have now.

bails87

Fair enough. Most people I see/ride with tend to be running 2.1"s to 2.25"s, I don't think I see many riders with properly big tyres, apart from the few on heavier duty AM bikes, that's why I asked.

Also, I assume the On One recommendation is based on what will fit into the frame, the extreme limit is either 2.4 or 2.5 depending on which bit of the website you look at :? but 2.0-2.3 is 'best' according to them.

I'll give them another chance. Lower the pressure as I'm pretty light and tend to be a smooth rider (not in the habit of pinch puncturing or dinging rims), and I'll see how they work. May go for a Fat Albert if I want a bit more stick at the front. At least if the back snaps away first I can drift the bike. Will also be sure to keep my weight through the outside pedal, though I think I've been doing that since going on the skills course.

Cheers all!

rockmonkeysc

In most On-One frames mud clearence can be very limited even with some 2.3" tyres. I can just about squeeze in a 2.5" Swamp Thing on my Summer Season though there is bugger all clearance. A 2.35" Muddy Mary is bigger than a 2.5" Swamp Thing though & won't fit.

bails87

I didn't actually look at frame clearance last night, I did measure the tyre though, and on a 19mm rim it measures up at a genuine 2.25" at the widest point, in case anyone is interested.

kenan

I run a Rubber Queen 2.2 on the front of my C456 with a Nobby Nic 2.4 on the back. I like more volume and have no clearance issues on the back. Both come up about the same size if anyones interested.

I have never run out of grip, only skill and have just gone tubeless which seems has improved the grip.