Team GB - Proof that cycling is now clean?

BikingBernie

In the wake if the Armstrong decision, I am sure that there will be many claims to the effect that Armstrong was clean all along and that any doping that there was in the sport has now been all but eradicated. This at any rate seems to be the position of that most esteemed organization, the UCI.

Anyhow, I was wondering if the way team GB totally dominated the World RR championships shed any light on what is going on. We all know that a professionally administered doping regime can give such huge gains that clean riders have little hope of winning. We all saw the way team GB totally 'owned' the worlds. It follows that they could not have done this if everyone one else in the race was doped. So, does this prove that cycling is now effectively dope-free, or could there perhaps be another explanation for the unbelievable performance of the GB team?

hangeron

<cynicOn>Maybe TeamGB are better dopers<cynicOff>

iainf72

Which unbelievably performance was that? Riding tempo on the front for 240KM of a pan flat piece of crap course? Yeah man, they must've been juicing with lizard blood to pull that kind of epic exploit off.

Perhaps they should have a work with Voekler to learn how to make "I'm suffering" faces.

BikingBernie

There's 'tempo' and there's 'tempo'. Fact is the GB team set such a pace that absolutely nobody had the legs to ride away from them...

bompington

BikingBernie wrote:

There's 'tempo' and there's 'tempo'. Fact is the GB team set such a pace that absolutely nobody had the legs to ride away from them...

But that's entirely a different matter - it just shows that there was nobody could put together a break that was vastly superior to them, not that they were vastly superior to everyone else.

Or are you just trolling for a new obsession now that everyone else is a bit bored with the whole Lance saga? ;-)

rick_chasey

iainf72 wrote:

Perhaps they should have a work with Voekler to learn how to make "I'm suffering" faces.

Hah! Pwnage.

ddraver

Well it's a fair question if you remove the eternal fricking Lance effect...

To be honest I agree with both Bernie and Hangeron...Yes it suggests that doping is much less prevalent if a team with a strong anti-doping stance can win (see also HTC, Garmin etc), but on the other hand, They re winners in a sport that is well known for being dirty and just because they re British, does nt mean that they categorically don't dope....

cal_stewart

Cycling is cleaner. I'll say cycling is clean when the nation's that most develop talent are dominating (BC, Aus etc)

zippypablo

Cycling will never be clean (only cleaner) just like any other sport.
There will always be cheats in life so why would top level sport be any different?

iainf72

BikingBernie wrote:

There's 'tempo' and there's 'tempo'. Fact is the GB team set such a pace that absolutely nobody had the legs to ride away from them...

Do you honestly believe that course would've resulted in anything but sprint?

Rubbish course, rubbish race, GB had the outstanding favourite to win, it was up to them to ride on the front and they did it. It wasn't ET or anything.

What do you suppose the French U23 guys were on? They managed a 1 / 2 and controlled the race. And it's apparent of late how out of control doping is in the french amateur squads.

BikingBernie

iainf72 wrote:

BikingBernie wrote:

There's 'tempo' and there's 'tempo'. Fact is the GB team set such a pace that absolutely nobody had the legs to ride away from them...

Do you honestly believe that course would've resulted in anything but sprint?

No, but they way they rode on the front at over 29 Mph for the best part of 266Km, chasing down every move that went away, was a formidable show of superiority.

As Wiggins himself puts it in Cycling Weekly:

All of a sudden we've got one of the strongest teams in cycling. It's like the old Postal days.

Mmmmm.

jamlala

Are you not allowed to be the best at something without being a doper? It was a course that suited our lot hands down, some good time triallers in the team to keep the speed up.

Yawn.

Crankbrother

I have to say I was (still am) suspicious of the GB track success ... One or two winners through improved processes etc. seems sensible, but to produce that many winners across the board? Something just doesn't add up ...

The GB World's team however, I just think got lucky that every other team accepted it was a sprint and no breaks were ever really fully orchestrated or in earnest ... The whole thing came across as an early TdF stage rather than a World Champs ... Bear in mind the 'train' went to shit before Cav found a gap, so in essence it wasn't the great ride GB claim it was ... It was more akin to Team Sky's efforts, but luckily it wasn't Swift or Sutton getting lost in the last Km ...

Jez mon

The track success.

A select few, talented very talented riders, a highly controlled environment, and notably, few other nations who take it seriously, with success came money, which bred more success.

I'm not saying they didn't dope. But it's hardly difficult to see why we dominated the track, a serious lack of quality competition.

Crankbrother

Jez mon wrote:

The track success.

A select few, talented very talented riders, a highly controlled environment, and notably, few other nations who take it seriously, with success came money, which bred more success.

I'm not saying they didn't dope. But it's hardly difficult to see why we dominated the track, a serious lack of quality competition.

So we are to believe that while GB miraculously found about 10 world beaters in the space of about 2 years, every other country just so happened to be sh!t? ... Colour me sceptical ... It's like saying LA only won 7 TdF's as the competition was rubbish ... and we all know about the level that his competition was working at ...

iainf72

Seeing as I watched the race (that's a chunk of my life I'll never get back) but didn't the US and Germany sometimes do a bit on the front?

Jez mon

Crankbrother wrote:

Jez mon wrote:

The track success.

A select few, talented very talented riders, a highly controlled environment, and notably, few other nations who take it seriously, with success came money, which bred more success.

I'm not saying they didn't dope. But it's hardly difficult to see why we dominated the track, a serious lack of quality competition.

So we are to believe that while GB miraculously found about 10 world beaters in the space of about 2 years, every other country just so happened to be sh!t? ... Colour me sceptical ... It's like saying LA only won 7 TdF's as the competition was rubbish ... and we all know about the level that his competition was working at ...

If you're a kid who is good at cycling in the traditional heartlands of cycling, you get put on the road. If you're good at cycling in the UK (and Aus), you get steered towards the track. Hence I'm not surprised at the UK's dominance, generally in cycling you're competing against far fewer people anyway, and in track cycling even fewer than that.

RichN95.

Crankbrother wrote:

So we are to believe that while GB miraculously found about 10 world beaters in the space of about 2 years, every other country just so happened to be sh!t? ... Colour me sceptical ... It's like saying LA only won 7 TdF's as the competition was rubbish ... and we all know about the level that his competition was working at ...

They didn't miraculously emerge in the space of two years. A lot of them had been around for a decade. Hoy, Manning, Newton, Wiggins, Houvenhagel, Cooke etc, didn't suddenly come out of nowhere in 2008.

Crankbrother

Yes, but they all went from being almost the best, to being the best ... all at once ... I'm sceptical of the wholesale winningness ...

ddraver

Rewrite that god forsaken post now with using the infernal non-word winningness!! Grrrrrrr

( )

finchy

BikingBernie wrote:

As Wiggins himself puts it in Cycling Weekly:

All of a sudden we've got one of the strongest teams in cycling. It's like the old Postal days.

Mmmmm.

If you take Sky and BC to be interchangeable, then a grand total of 0 monuments and 0 grand tours in 2 years doesn't exactly make for an all-conquering team. Garmin could lay claim to be more successful than Sky.

Ian65

It's not rocket science, this. BC planned for years and put together a team of brilliant riders. That's what happened.

Quality riders like Froome, Cummings and Hunt rode themselves into the ground to keep the pace up, prevent any serious attacks and stay at the front.

One of the world's best pursuiters and time triallists, Wiggins - in such great form that he won silver in the TT - rode the last 15km at 55kmh. A huge effort which prevented anyone from launching a meaningful attack.

Then we had the world's best sprinter to finish it off.

The Guardian got it right the next day: "calm, professional and commanding throughout". "A brilliant win - and a demonstration of just how far British cycling has come in recent years."

shockedsoshocked

Remember if you're British it's not doping, just an "anomaly".

finchy

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Remember if you're British it's not doping, unless there is some evidence other than a couple of decent performances and people saying stuff on a forum.

FTFY

jerry3571

Jesus Christ. Did the rest of the Peleton not dope so they could let the UK win for a favour or what? This sport is riddled with it so get used to it. I did have a quick glance at Procycling this week and they're talking about EPO Booster now; never heard of that one.
To win in he top ranks; it would be impossible to not be on something. Lucho Herrera gave up cycling when big chunky sprinters were passing him on the Mountains due to the birth of blood doping. If Lucho was getting blown out by chunky lads then it shows doping does something special and inhuman.
Every year we have loads of positive tests where the rider screws up and gets caught. The big teams have their house's in order which keep them out of trouble.

Oh, I forgot a 16 year old Canadian girl got busted for winning the Junior women's Time Trial a few years ago and Basso won the Under 23 Mens Road Race and that's off the top of my head.
Come on kiddies. Lets look at it in the face and enjoy the racing and let the authorities wonder about the Doping.

How many more doping cases do we need....:s

-Jerry

mroli

Having heard a current team sky rider talk about one of his competitors at another team, he is either an incredible bluffer, or I would be AMAZED if he dopes. There was (what I considered to be) genuine contempt there for dopers.

shockedsoshocked

johnfinch wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Remember if you're British it's not doping, unless there is some evidence other than a couple of decent performances and people saying stuff on a forum.

FTFY

?

May have missed the point, but I was referring to a rider being pulled from the World Track Champs a few year back, then being dropped like hot sh!t.

finchy

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Remember if you're British it's not doping, unless there is some evidence other than a couple of decent performances and people saying stuff on a forum.

FTFY

?

May have missed the point, but I was referring to a rider being pulled from the World Track Champs a few year back, then being dropped like hot sh!t.

Oh, OK, I'm sorry. I thought that you were talking about accusations being chucked around on the 'Net with no supporting evidence.

Do you mean Rob Hayles? I thought that he made a comeback in the national team later that year. Maybe BC just wanted a bit of extra time to study his case and thought it wasn't worth the risk of taking a 35 year old suspect rider to Beijing when there was a large talent pool from which they could select.

shockedsoshocked

johnfinch wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

johnfinch wrote:

ShockedSoShocked wrote:

Remember if you're British it's not doping, unless there is some evidence other than a couple of decent performances and people saying stuff on a forum.

FTFY

?

May have missed the point, but I was referring to a rider being pulled from the World Track Champs a few year back, then being dropped like hot sh!t.

Oh, OK, I'm sorry. I thought that you were talking about accusations being chucked around on the 'Net with no supporting evidence.

Do you mean Rob Hayles? I thought that he made a comeback in the national team later that year. Maybe BC just wanted a bit of extra time to study his case and thought it wasn't worth the risk of taking a 35 year old suspect rider to Beijing when there was a large talent pool from which they could select.

I'm pretty certain he whinged a lot at the time. That year he won the Nat champs he was like a motorbike during the race mind you. Haven't the British Track team got a clause with the Lottery Fund saying if there is any positive tests money gets pulled immediately? Similarly I find it odd that Brailsford was sat across a table from Millar when the Police kicked the door in yet that seemed to be kept relatively quiet. His policy for not hiring anyone with a history of doping seemingly didn't extend to backroom staff when he took on Yates, Sutton and Sunderland.

pat1cp

Cuddles winning the tour last year gave me hope. I hope it's not misplaced.

BikingBernie

I often wonder why Wiggins, once an outspoken critic of doping and dopers, should have become so reticent on the issue now that he is is up there with the big hitters. I know that if I came 4th in the Tour de France behind 3 people associated with doping I would find it hard to be uncritical, if I had ridden clean. Certainly, many take the refusal of riders like the Schlecks to be openly critical of those who have been convicted of doping suggests and who finished ahead of them as being evidence that they too are on 'the hot sauce'. I feel the 'old' Wiggins would have been even more outspoken, and yet he has instead gone out of his way a number of times to openly praise Armstrong. How odd.

On the subject of oddness, I was told by a training partner of his that he bought a surprise present for his wife this Christmas: an appointment to have breast enlargement surgery. Word is she didn't know whether to be pleased or insulted!