Cleaning bearings in bottom cup of headset

pollys_bott

Hi;

I've got a frame where there has been a bit of water ingress into the bottom cup and it's a bit rusty and ganky. Is it possible to get the bearings pulled out and cleaned and then pressed back in? If not then does anyone have any handy hints on how to clean them in situ?

Thanks

keef66

Far better to remove the bearings for servicing / replacement. If there's corrosion, the sooner the better, otherwise they might become very difficult to get out.

If you can't DIY, any LBS will be able to whip them out for you in seconds.

pollys_bott

Thanks for that - how would I get them out myself? Bit of wood down the head tube and tap them out gently?

keef66

For conventional headset cups I've got a bit of metal rod I use in the way you describe to tap them out. No reason a bit of wood wouldn't work if they aren't too badly rusted in.

If they are of the hidden / integrated type, it might be trickier.

pollys_bott

It's a sealed headset - is that the same as hidden / integrated?

keef66

Can you see the headset cups when the bike's in one piece (conventional), or is everything hidden inside the head tube? (hidden / integrated)
Do you mean sealed cartridge bearings? If they are buggered you just buy new ones (as opposed to the old fashioned loose or caged ball bearings which can be cleaned and regreased periodically)

Park Tools website has some useful info / pictures of headsets

http://www.parktool.com/blog/repair-hel ... threadless

pollys_bott

I can see the bottom cup - looks like the first picture of the low profile headset on that Park link. I can put my finger up inside the headtube and rotate something around just inside that lip - I guess they're the bearings?

Edit - they're the old type bearings where they're inside a little metal ring. Frame is a 2007 trek 1000 so nothing flashy

keef66

If the little cage of bearings has come out, just leave the race in the headtube and give it a good wipe clean and rinse the bearings in degreaser / white spirit and dry them. If both the bearings and the race look / feel OK just regrease generously and reassemble.

pollys_bott

I can't get them out, that's the problem When the fork is in and all done up I can still hear / feel a few tiny bits of something in there, despite having slathered plenty of grease on them; that's why I want to get them out and give them a thorough clean.

Edit - I'll have another look tonight, maybe there's something blindingly obvious I'm missing and they'll come out easily once I work out what it is :?

keef66

So you can see the ball bearings, in their cage, but they won't come out? Maybe it's a sealed bearing that's lost it's seal somehow?? Presumably the crown race is sitting on the fork?

I'd suggest trying to tap the cup out from the top as you initially mentioned; will be easier to see what's going on then.

pollys_bott

Wasn't able to tap them out with wood - couldn't get a decent purchase. Got muddled up with the old bike I have that I'm cleaning up re the bearings in the cage, I've no idea what these ones are like :oops:

This is what I'm dealing with:

Twostage

A bit difficult to see from the pictures but from memory the top race could be held in by a circlip which will need to be prized out.

keef66

Never encountered anything that looks like that, or bearings that didn't come out easily, so I'm going to stop offering advice!

I suppose a circlip might explain it.

Twostage

Just serviced mine (top set seemed OK so just did the bottom).
Bike seen upside down.

After removal of fork :-


Started to remove circlip. Difficult to see but you can see at 12 o'clock where it still in place on the right :-


Circlip fully out :-


Cone removed revealing dry bearings. Only one fell on the floor which I found :-


Everything cleaned and bearings back in place :-


And finally - my assistant during the process whose main contribution was jumping onto shelves knocking things onto the floor :-

keef66

Thanks for taking the time to post the pics. Most enlightening!

Nice chicken too.

andy_wrx

Let the chooks into the garage as I work on the bike ?
Interesting idea, but they'd just drive me nuts demanding corn )

pollys_bott

keef66 wrote:

Never encountered anything that looks like that, or bearings that didn't come out easily, so I'm going to stop offering advice!

I suppose a circlip might explain it.

Your advice and suggestions were very helpful Keef66 - I'm sure that if I had the frame solid in a workstand I could tap them out but am wary of giving it too much welly and possibly damaging the head tube. I've settled for squirting copious quantities of WD-40 down the head tube to try and flush out the gunky bits and / or loosen the cup if it's seized in and then packing plenty of grease in. The bike is built now and ready for shake-down this afternoon, if any dodgy noises come from the bottom cup area then I'll take it to the LBS and see what they think.

And thanks for posting those pics - that's the same bearing set up as my oldest Trek (1997), everything comes apart easily and simple for even an engineering numpty comme moi to understand... :roll:

pollys_bott

LBS tapped out both bearing races and cleaned them up, all OK so thank you again Keef66; your first reply at the top of the thread was spot on

keef66

Glad you're all sorted!