456 summer season dilemma

mushyspuds

Hi guys, here's the thing: 3 years ago some scrotum stole my kona stinky out of my garage and it wasn't covered in the insurance due to it being within the 30 days of starting the policy!!.... Ok so after the heartbreak and the tears had stopped flowing, I picked myself up and browsed numerous forums/sites and bought myself a 456 summer season in day glo green. I was in love!! Two kids later and numerous things to fork out for, my beloved frame is still waiting to be built.

Now I work for the NHS and they've started to do the cycle to work scheme which makes getting a new bike now a possibility. What I want to know is can I get parts on the scheme to finish the build? Or would I have to buy a donor bike based on decent spec? Or just buy a new bike for £1000. I'm going to be riding mainly trails with some gnarly stuff and maybe the odd downhill. I'm no Steve peat but we did used to go fort bill and I'm looking at something with around 140-160mm forks to handle this if I ever get the balls back to throw myself down a mountain again!!

Any help or ideas appreciated. Thanks

1mancity2

To do justice to the 456 your gonna need some decent 140/150mm forks which I doubt you would find on a 1000 bike.

I'd buy a new bike port parts to the frame and get some Revs, were can you look for a bike?

Or sell the frame, get a bike and have cash to buy helmet etc.

mushyspuds

Still waiting for the list of dealers and LBS that I can go to. I noticed Paul cycles have a giant reign and a kona stinky both under a grand. But ideally I'd like to build up this 456 and have some hardcore hardtail fun still have all the gear helmet.etc but on the other hand there's not much point in if I can get something already built and gives as much!

My other idea was taking the frame to a participating LBS and asking them to build it up but say I've bought a full bike but I believe that's illegal .

rockmonkeysc

I have got a summer season & it's awesome. If you want to build it up as a freeride bike then 160mm forks with 35mm/36mm stanchions work really well. I used to do downhill racing on m mine & I think I was faster on that & had more fun than I do on my Giant Reign X.

styxd

If your just riding trails with the odd bit of downhill then you really want to be looking at some 120mm travel forks, its really what the summer season was designed around. The idea being you can still have a slack headangle with relatively short travel forks.

mushyspuds

On-one used to sell the Summer season as a full build for a grand but only do the carbon 456 now. Mate I ride with has rocky mountain slayer with 160mm fox floats so need to keep up with him and hopefully pass him on the climbs!! Ha

mushyspuds

Eyed up the commencal ramones a1 as a donor bike but that might be better than the summer season?

http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mobi ... elID=66773

styxd

What about a carbon 456 full build then? Sell your SS frame. If you want the SS to climb well, the last thing you want to be doing is putting 160mm forks on it.

Also, a new version of the standard 456 is on the way, so there maybe some full build 456's (the current model) going cheap shortly.

I think the best solution may be to sell your SS frame and buy a full build of something else (like another 456) A donor bike may turn into more hassle than its worth and you'll have to start spending more money to get all the bits together.

mushyspuds

Maybe it was a bit extreme for the forks! How stiff are the carbon? It needs to be something that's gonna take a few hits because I do have some very silly crashes!! More driver error haha. It was the slack angle that warmed me to the SS . Hoped it would give me the feel of the stinky on the descents .

styxd

Carbon frames are generallyl nice and stiff, but also comfortable (they damp out vibrations)

But

If you're into crashing and like a slack front end then I'd perhaps stay with the SS. But with 160mm forks it'll be daft. Far too slack to do anything with and the BB and front end will be stupidly high. with 120mm forks its still very slack, but you can also go round corners with it and climb up hills!

rockmonkeysc

Summer Season climbs fine with 160mm forks. It takes a little effort on twisty singletrack due to the slackness but it will blast through anything. The front end is about an inch higher than a Giant Trance, so not stupidly high & the BB height is not particularly high either. With 120mm forks I found I needed loads of spacers below the stem to make it comfortable, handling was a bit weird with short forks as well.
On-One sell the 456SS as a complete build with 150mm forks. Why would they do that if they designed it around 120mm forks?

styxd

Because they couldnt care less?

Theres an article floating about (probably somewhere on the on-one website) written by the designer about why he created the Summer Season - basically because people were using long forks on there 456's just to get a slack head angle (which isnt ideal) so he made the SS slacker than a 456 so it would still be slack with 120mm forks.

Running long travel forks to raise the bar height is rediculous. Jsut use a stem with more ride or some higher bars, or do some stretching so you can reach the bars when they're low.

styxd

Summer Season climbs fine with 160mm forks

Depends on your definition of fine.

I'd say it climbs like shite personally, especially on technical stuff. The Ragley Blue pig is a much better climber with long forks, but I guess thats out of the OP's budget.

rockmonkeysc

Have you tried a SS with 160mm forks? I bought U-turn domains for mine becuase I thought it wouldn't climb with a long fork. I find it climbs just as well at 160mm as it does dropped right down to 115mm.
I never drop my forks any more because it rides much better with long forks.
Saying that On_One couldn't care less how their bike rides is bollocks, if bikes ride badly they soon get a bad reputation & don't sell. I spoke to On-One before building mine & they recomended 140mm for trail riding & longer for freeride/downhill.

styxd

Yes, it rides poorly, Ive tried it hence my response. A Dialled Alpine or Ragley is better suited to longer forks, especially for climbing.

I never drop my forks any more because it rides much better with long forks.

Where do you ride that you require 160mm forks on the slackest hardtail frame you can buy?

I spoke to On-One before building mine & they recomended 140mm for trail riding & longer for freeride/downhill.

Yes, for the standard 456. The SS is different as I explained above.

rockmonkeysc

I built mine for freeride, which I do at local quarries (the SS frame takes an afewul lot of hucking & jumping without any problems) & downhill at Triscombe, Cwmcarn, FOD and I use it for XC on the quantocks (lots of climbing there!) various locations in wiltshire, Afan, Exmoor (quite a bit of climbing there as well) and the blackdown hills in somerset.
That was for the SS, not the standard 456 which On-One recomended the longer forks.

styxd

For your riding I cant really see why you want so much travel on the front with such a slack headangle. I find it just makes jumps and drops far trickier as you're blowing through 160mm of travel all the time. But if you get on with it then fair enough.

That was for the SS, not the standard 456 which On-One recomended the longer forks.

I imagine they just took a stab in the dark at this though. The guy that designed it didnt work there at the time you bought your SS, so they probably just thought "it'll be the same as the standard 456"

rockmonkeysc

The super slack head angle helps for the DH stuff. It will plough through anything. I just wind up the compression for drops & jumps to stop it bottoming plus I run a farily stiff spring.
On really gnarly downhill tracks it's awesome, triscombe is properly rocky & rooty but with the super slack geometry & long travel I can just bash through it all including landing drops on big roots, it just always feels solid & stable. I could ride my 456SS faster than I can ride my Reign X on DH trails.

styxd

Good stuff. I dont know how long you've been riding drops and jumps for, but I always find alot of relative beginners seem to think that more travel = better.

I started on a bmx (obviously no travel) and short travee dirt jump bikes, so find a hardtail with alot of front travel a bit of a funny thing to jump

rockmonkeysc

As long as it's set up so that it doesn't dive through it's travel on the landing it's ok