W1, this one's for you
HebdenBiker
Posts: 787
Now I am a very liberal-minded guy, but have just come across this thread on MoneySavingExpert.
Basically, the poster is struggling to make ends meet and is asking for advice. She says she is so hard up she has started leaving the baby longer in its nappies in order to save money.
THEN she has posted a breakdown of her income and expenditure. She is single, with two kids and gets £1500 per month in benefits. She spends £84 per month on cigarettes (she needs them for stress), £25 per month on Sky TV (couldn't give it up because the kids like the Disney channel), £30 per month on contact lenses (she HATES her glasses), and is going to Butlins for her summer holiday.
I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thread is a wind-up.
W1, knock yourself out
Basically, the poster is struggling to make ends meet and is asking for advice. She says she is so hard up she has started leaving the baby longer in its nappies in order to save money.
THEN she has posted a breakdown of her income and expenditure. She is single, with two kids and gets £1500 per month in benefits. She spends £84 per month on cigarettes (she needs them for stress), £25 per month on Sky TV (couldn't give it up because the kids like the Disney channel), £30 per month on contact lenses (she HATES her glasses), and is going to Butlins for her summer holiday.
I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thread is a wind-up.
W1, knock yourself out
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Comments
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I'm a lefty, and I think she sounds like a stupid bint. Not sure what W1 can add!0
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Not sure why this addressed at me - surely anyone working hard and paying tax should be angry that they are supporting her, and plenty more like her?0
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You must be a very angry person indeed if people like this existing in our society upset you.W1 wrote:Not sure why this addressed at me - surely anyone working hard and paying tax should be angry that they are supporting her, and plenty more like her?0 -
Maybe Ed Miliband read this before coming out with his statement that the proposed benefits cap might be too high outside of London? :-)"I spent most of my money on birds, booze and fast cars: the rest of it I just squandered." [George Best]0
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notsoblue wrote:
You must be a very angry person indeed if people like this existing in our society upset you.W1 wrote:Not sure why this addressed at me - surely anyone working hard and paying tax should be angry that they are supporting her, and plenty more like her?
Not really - doesn't it upset you? Someone taking you for a mug? You working hard, paying tax, intending that it is used to help people, but instead it's being squandered and wasted on people who have no sense of responsibility?0 -
W1 wrote:notsoblue wrote:
You must be a very angry person indeed if people like this existing in our society upset you.W1 wrote:Not sure why this addressed at me - surely anyone working hard and paying tax should be angry that they are supporting her, and plenty more like her?
Not really - doesn't it upset you? Someone taking you for a mug? You working hard, paying tax, intending that it is used to help people, but instead it's being squandered and wasted on people who have no sense of responsibility?
Agree 100% with W1.
nsb - not sure if I have misunderstood your post, but are you inferring that there is nothing wrong with that situation or simply saying you don't care? :?0 -
1500 a month! thats more than i take home!BMC TM01 - FCN 0
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Premier (CX) - FCN 6
Premier (fixed/SS) - FCN30 -
I'll bite.
What I don't understand (and I really don't) is how or why if you're single, have two kids and only part time job do you amass the following debt:
No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
Amex CC........................5098.21...0.........0
Capital one CC.................1441.1....0.........0
Egg CC.........................3021.47...60........0
Studio Catalogue...............1264......60........0
Vanquis CC.....................500.......30........0
Nationwide Overdraft...........2180.03...25........0
Morgan Stanley CC..............2558......0.........0
IF CC..........................1813.58...0.........0
HSBC CC........................1589.5....0.........0
HSBC Overdraft.................1810.11...0.........0
Egg Loan.......................7861.58...0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........29137.58..175.......-
At what stage do you or the people lending this money stop and think - hang on, how's it going to be paid back?
How do you get a credit card when it's clear you're going to pay it back with benefit money.
It's too easy to feel angry at this woman, it's easily done and there are a lot of people who get lost in a situation. I think the real issue is looking at why and how so many people get in these situations. When did Sky, Holiday, Entertainment, Haircut, Internet, TV or a phone/mobile contract (you only need one) become necessity and not luxury.
Also her income is equal to that of a person earning £30,000+ Wow.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:I'll bite.
What I don't understand (and I really don't) is how or why if you're single, have two kids and only part time job do you amass the following debt:
No Secured nor Hire Purchase Debts
Unsecured Debts
Description....................Debt......Monthly.. .APR
Amex CC........................5098.21...0.........0
Capital one CC.................1441.1....0.........0
Egg CC.........................3021.47...60........0
Studio Catalogue...............1264......60........0
Vanquis CC.....................500.......30........0
Nationwide Overdraft...........2180.03...25........0
Morgan Stanley CC..............2558......0.........0
IF CC..........................1813.58...0.........0
HSBC CC........................1589.5....0.........0
HSBC Overdraft.................1810.11...0.........0
Egg Loan.......................7861.58...0.........0
Total unsecured debts..........29137.58..175.......-
At what stage do you or the people lending this money stop and think - hang on, how's it going to be paid back?
How do you get a credit card when it's clear you're going to pay it back with benefit money.
It's too easy to feel angry at this woman, it's easily done and there are a lot of people who get lost in a situation. I think the real issue is looking at why and how so many people get in these situations. When did Sky, Holiday, Entertainment, Haircut, Internet, TV or a phone/mobile contract (you only need one) become necessity and not luxury.
Also her income is equal to that of a person earning £30,000+ Wow.
She's thick and greedy, they're sharks, we're all mugs (or something like that).0 -
She has a 2.1 Degree in teaching and her husband left her.BigMat wrote:She's thick and greedy, they're sharks, we're all mugs (or something like that).
Not everyone is budget savvy. She started smoking after her husband left her. Maybe overcompensating with holidays and Sky etc for the kids. - Easily done, I've seen it.
Like the RBS bonus the problem is the system.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
HebdenBiker wrote:and is going to Butlins for her summer holiday.
I'm beginning to wonder if the whole thread is a wind-up.
W1, knock yourself out
What's a 'summer holiday'?0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
She has a 2.1 Degree in teaching and her husband left her.BigMat wrote:She's thick and greedy, they're sharks, we're all mugs (or something like that).
She shouldn't be racking up debts like that, but then maybe she's the clever one knowing that somebody else will ultimately pick up the tab. Oh, by the way, a phone contract isn't a necessity. Get a PAYG if you must.0 -
W1 wrote:notsoblue wrote:
You must be a very angry person indeed if people like this existing in our society upset you.W1 wrote:Not sure why this addressed at me - surely anyone working hard and paying tax should be angry that they are supporting her, and plenty more like her?
Not really - doesn't it upset you? Someone taking you for a mug? You working hard, paying tax, intending that it is used to help people, but instead it's being squandered and wasted on people who have no sense of responsibility?
Honestly? I'm a bit of a pessimist when it comes to the way the general public behaves. I don't think you can realistically expect everyone, or even a majority of people, to act like model citizens who only take what they really need from and give what they're expected to give to society. I mean, you said yourself in various tax threads that you expect people to pay as little tax as they can get away with paying and anyone who doesn't do that is a bit of a mug. Thats hardly being a model citizen. The country we live in has both greedy and stupid people in abundance, and the government has a tricky job of managing both. Its never going to be a perfect system, so why get upset about it?
With regards to the general point about people needlessly being a burden on the welfare state, if they're adults its probably too late. It makes more sense to ensure their kids don't make the same mistakes, and the worst way to do that would be to punish the parents.0 -
I agree, if it wasn't for the internet needing a hardline into the house I wouldn't have a landline number/contract.BigMat wrote:DonDaddyD wrote:
She has a 2.1 Degree in teaching and her husband left her.BigMat wrote:She's thick and greedy, they're sharks, we're all mugs (or something like that).
She shouldn't be racking up debts like that, but then maybe she's the clever one knowing that somebody else will ultimately pick up the tab. Oh, by the way, a phone contract isn't a necessity. Get a PAYG if you must.
As for a mobile phone PAYG sim card as back up, always.Food Chain number = 4
A true scalp is not only overtaking someone but leaving them stopped at a set of lights. As you, who have clearly beaten the lights, pummels nothing but the open air ahead. ~ 'DondaddyD'. Player of the Unspoken Game0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:
She has a 2.1 Degree in teaching and her husband left her.BigMat wrote:She's thick and greedy, they're sharks, we're all mugs (or something like that).BigMat wrote:She's clever and greedy, they're sharks, we're all mugs (or something like that).
FTFY :evil:None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.0 -
Tried to read the thread but couldn't. Her monthly income is more than mine. I've got 2 kids too. Alright I have a wife that is earning intermittently at the moment. But really, that is ridiculous.0
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I accept that it will never be a perfect system - but the scale of the issue (of which this person is just one example) shows that it is not imperfect - it is completely broken. You are welcome not to care about it, but labelling me as "a very angry person indeed" is misplaced, just because I do care.notsoblue wrote:W1 wrote:notsoblue wrote:
You must be a very angry person indeed if people like this existing in our society upset you.W1 wrote:Not sure why this addressed at me - surely anyone working hard and paying tax should be angry that they are supporting her, and plenty more like her?
Not really - doesn't it upset you? Someone taking you for a mug? You working hard, paying tax, intending that it is used to help people, but instead it's being squandered and wasted on people who have no sense of responsibility?
Honestly? I'm a bit of a pessimist when it comes to the way the general public behaves. I don't think you can realistically expect everyone, or even a majority of people, to act like model citizens who only take what they really need from and give what they're expected to give to society. I mean, you said yourself in various tax threads that you expect people to pay as little tax as they can get away with paying and anyone who doesn't do that is a bit of a mug. Thats hardly being a model citizen. The country we live in has both greedy and stupid people in abundance, and the government has a tricky job of managing both. Its never going to be a perfect system, so why get upset about it?
With regards to the general point about people needlessly being a burden on the welfare state, if they're adults its probably too late. It makes more sense to ensure their kids don't make the same mistakes, and the worst way to do that would be to punish the parents.
How do you ensure that the kids don't do the same, when they are brought up in a household that clearly includes a mother who has no personal responsibility? Because at the moment we give them everything they need - and more. If anything is a disincentive to work, surely?
There is a reason that the UK has one of the highest proportions of children being raised in non-working households as compared to Europe - because not working is not only an option, it is a good decision for many. The answer is not more hand-outs.0 -
the real losers in this sorry affair are the people that bust their balls to take home every month LESS than what she is p1ssing up the wall on Sky TV and smokes.0
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She's going to have to go bankrupt. £30,000 at say 8% interest is £2,400 a year or say £200 a month. She can't even pay that at the moment, let alone start paying down the capital. Let the banks take the hit I say.<a>road</a>0
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el_presidente wrote:She's going to have to go bankrupt. £30,000 at say 8% interest is £2,400 a year or say £200 a month. She can't even pay that at the moment, let alone start paying down the capital. Let the banks take the hit I say.
Great. Although this is of course perfectly legal, so all's fine and dandy in W1 world!0 -
W1 wrote:I accept that it will never be a perfect system - but the scale of the issue (of which this person is just one example) shows that it is not imperfect - it is completely broken. You are welcome not to care about it, but labelling me as "a very angry person indeed" is misplaced, just because I do care.
How do you ensure that the kids don't do the same, when they are brought up in a household that clearly includes a mother who has no personal responsibility?
Well, not binning EMA might have been a good idea if this is the case. Removing financial barriers to staying in education is the best way of ensuring that kids grow up to be more aspirational than their parents, imho.W1 wrote:Because at the moment we give them everything they need - and more. If anything is a disincentive to work, surely?
There is a reason that the UK has one of the highest proportions of children being raised in non-working households as compared to Europe - because not working is not only an option, it is a good decision for many. The answer is not more hand-outs.
Citation needed... That makes no sense to me. The general trend in western Europe seems to be more handouts than the UK (I'm fine to be corrected on this if I'm wrong), so the conclusion would be that the answer *would* be more handouts? Anyway, as has been discussed before, the fact that people can't afford a living wage by working and resort to benefits is only the fault of the government in so far as it hasn't addressed unethical employment practices for the low waged.
As a general point though, I agree with you that indolence has to be discouraged. It does nobody any good, least of all the indolent.0 -
Indeed, although that will hopefully stop her getting any more cards.BigMat wrote:el_presidente wrote:She's going to have to go bankrupt. £30,000 at say 8% interest is £2,400 a year or say £200 a month. She can't even pay that at the moment, let alone start paying down the capital. Let the banks take the hit I say.
Great. Although this is of course perfectly legal, so all's fine and dandy in W1 world!
Personal bankruptcy laws are another topic entirely, suffice to say they do not encourage responsible borrowing. And the banks are completely nuts to lend so easily - their customers will end up paying for it.0 -
clarkey cat wrote:the real losers in this sorry affair are the people that bust their balls to take home every month LESS than what she is p1ssing up the wall on Sky TV and smokes.
Although, if the govt stops paying then in a few years time her kids (and millions others) will be tooled up, angry and looking for fat middle-class hosts to feed off. L:ast year's riots will look like a sunday school picnic. So, maybe the status quo ain't quite so bad...<a>road</a>0 -
Citation as requested:notsoblue wrote:Citation needed... That makes no sense to me. The general trend in western Europe seems to be more handouts than the UK (I'm fine to be corrected on this if I'm wrong), so the conclusion would be that the answer *would* be more handouts? Anyway, as has been discussed before, the fact that people can't afford a living wage by working and resort to benefits is only the fault of the government in so far as it hasn't addressed unethical employment practices for the low waged.
As a general point though, I agree with you that indolence has to be discouraged. It does nobody any good, least of all the indolent.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/neilo ... d-we-have/
Is that right? I was under the impression that apart from the Scandi countries that Rick loves, the benefits systems in most European countries are not eas easy or as generous as the UK. Quick google didn't show anything very useful.0 -
DonDaddyD wrote:if it wasn't for the internet needing a hardline into the house I wouldn't have a landline number/contract.
get virgin media, you dont need a phone line then - thats what i do (as long as your in a cabled area, which living in the "big smoke", you must be reet)Keeping it classy since '830 -
The choice between dole and work isn't as straightforward as W1 makes, as an aside.
Being on the dole affect future earnings. For sure, some people could earn more being on the dole now than working, but working now improves future earning prospects, substantially!0 -
Rick Chasey wrote:The choice between dole and work isn't as straightforward as W1 makes, as an aside.
Being on the dole affect future earnings. For sure, some people could earn more being on the dole now than working, but working now improves future earning prospects, substantially!
Indeed, but many people have a very short term view (in fact as evidenced by the OP in this thread). They want to have what they can now, and don't consider the medium and long term.0 -
W1 wrote:Rick Chasey wrote:The choice between dole and work isn't as straightforward as W1 makes, as an aside.
Being on the dole affect future earnings. For sure, some people could earn more being on the dole now than working, but working now improves future earning prospects, substantially!
Indeed, but many people have a very short term view (in fact as evidenced by the OP in this thread). They want to have what they can now, and don't consider the medium and long term.
Rather like the people at the other extreme of the pay-scale 0
